A little confused Matt 16:28

Hotpepper

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I'm confused, what about my statement of state of the dead contradicts your belief? It would seem to me they are the same....

I never said the SDA's belief on the state of the dead or annihilationism contradicted my beliefs. I just see it as secondary doctrine. Certainly undeserving of calling someone a short robed Jesuit who does agree with me. My beliefs in eschatology as far as a millennial, post millennial and pre-millennial, or... the pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib STAND FIRM with Adam Clarke's intro commentary on the book of Revelation:

"My readers will naturally expect that I should either give a decided preference to some one of the opinions stated above, or produce one of my own; I can do neither, nor can I pretend to explain the book: I do not understand it; and in the things which concern so sublime and awful a subject, I dare not, as my predecessors, indulge in conjectures. I have read elaborate works on the subject, and each seemed right till another was examined. I am satisfied that no certain mode of interpreting the prophecies of this book has yet been found out, and I will not add another monument to the littleness or folly of the human mind by endeavoring to strike out a new course. I repeat it, I do not understand the book; and I am satisfied that not one who has written on the subject knows any thing more of it than myself."
:D You gotta love the honesty.
 
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Hotpepper

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Kind of sad really that he is left with no belief... I mean, how can you stand on something or have faith in something you don't understand?

Well, "no belief" as far as a millennial, post millennial, pre-millennial, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib goes. With this, one can only theorize. That's why it's called theology. :) Not knowing the specific time of the return of Christ is quite different than not knowing Christ. One can have faith in Jesus Christ and be in err in eschatology... as our salvation is not dependent upon our knowledge of end time prophecy but by grace through faith.
"For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

"If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know" (1 Corinthians 8:2)

A fool multiplies words, though no man knows what is to be, and who can tell him what will be after him? (Ecclesiastes 10:14)

Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man comes. (Matthew 25:13)

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Matthew 24:36)
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I guess it all depends on you level of faith and accepting discernment as opposed to doubt and the need for absolute proof.

My understanding of the truth of scripture is not the same today as it was in the past and I suspect will be shaped further in the future as I pray for more enlightenment but I accept that where I am in my current understanding is where the Holy Spirit has led me for this time.

In my opinion, to constantly be in a state of skepticism does not allow us to be grounded in the truth as we know it. There is a difference between someone that is persistently stuck in their belief as opposed to someone that accepts that discernment and understanding is an evolving process as we purify our characters and attain to perfection.

In other words, we should trust and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us into understanding rather that trying to do it ouselves.
 
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Hotpepper

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I guess it all depends on you level of faith and accepting discernment as opposed to doubt and the need for absolute proof.

My understanding of the truth of scripture is not the same today as it was in the past and I suspect will be shaped further in the future as I pray for more enlightenment but I accept that where I am in my current understanding is where the Holy Spirit has led me for this time.

In my opinion, to constantly be in a state of skepticism does not allow us to be grounded in the truth as we know it. There is a difference between someone that is persistently stuck in their belief as opposed to someone that accepts that discernment and understanding is an evolving process as we purify our characters and attain to perfection.

In other words, we should trust and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us into understanding rather that trying to do it ouselves.

:amen: -- This is truly a humble (and edifying) sentiment that graciously gives God all the glory of our sanctification. I could not agree with you more.
 
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Thebiblealone

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Your understanding is not based on scriptures or you should post it. It's easy to just make comments as if your doctrine is scriptual.
SabbathKeepers favor commentary over scriptures that's why you appear solemnly angry about when people should worship.

Those whom Christ sent to preach, wrote about days of worship in Rom 14.
#1 Dont judge a man worship to God, it's for God to accept of reject, and God is able to correct a man. Your condemnation of others is what's really breaking God heart. Did Jesus visit the houses of those who kept the sabbath, or those who needed healing and deliverance?



Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Some people allow commentary to malign what is being taught here, in order to reject God's word for another doctrine....SHAME ON YOU.

You're persuaded to keep Sabbath, (I'm happy for you)
These text could have simply said "Sabbath is the only day to worship God." The text said that men have other days. Let them work it out without your condemnation (judgment).

Let's try not to run away with this thread...... I suggest you start one with less hostility ..... I'm standing on the word of God regardless of insults.

Hello there, well I do see I am 5 years late on your theological debate on the topic. Which I do believe was off topic. However I am sorry that you think Seventh-Day Adventist Christians use "commentary" and not Bible. Exodus 20:8-11 is Bible. That's when the command was actually given. An eternal law my friend. Given by an eternal never changing God. But they actually kept it before then you can see that according to Exodus 16:22,23 we will keep it in Heaven Isaiah 66:23 it's made for man not not man for it according to Mark 2:27 notice it said man not Jews. But I really commented to clear up your misunderstanding about the text you quoted 5 years ago if no one has yet.

Those who believe Jesus when He says not one jot or tittle would disappear from the law until heaven and earth pass away would have to agree that Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭5‬ is not talking about the 4th commandment. Stomp your feet, the earth is still there. Look up in the sky the heavens are still there. The word of God never fails us friend. The Bible is our source of hope. I agree no commentary here friend on Christ the solid rock I stand. I know I'm 5 years late you may have a biblical understand of this verse now but someone else may read this discussion and stumble because of the debate you and my Adventist friend had.

We do not believe that the ten commandments (God's moral laws) were abolished at the cross. The law of love would cause Christians to want to keep God's moral laws through grace (i.e. not murder, not commit adultery), it does not free them to then freely murder. The same logic is applied to the 4th commandment, which is specified as the 7th day of the week in the commandment (Exodus 20:10).

Therefore, when Romans 14:5 is read in this context, we believe it is referring to religious holidays. The central issue during the apostolic times were circumcision, eating foods sacrificed to idols, keeping ceremonial feasts and holy days (including the rest days of those festivals). We are free to not keep ceremonial feasts and holy days because they were a "shadow of things to come" (Colossians 2:16-17) (i.e. they were ceremonies that pointed forward to the actual works of Jesus). However, the Sabbath is not a shadow, it represents a memorial of creation, sanctified at creation by God Himself.



The vegetarians in Roman 14:1 is about those early Christians who became vegetarians to avoid food sacrificed to idols, in accordance to Act 15:29. However, the vegan diet advocated by Seventh-Day Adventists relates to modern foods. Modern animals are raised entirely different from how they used to before. This is the same reason why the organic food movement is popular today, except 7th Day Adventists realized this in the 1850s. Vegetarianism is not a requirement but is greatly advised for heath reasons.

While Sabbath keeping Adventists do believe that breaking the Sabbath is a sin, they do believe all those who kept Sunday prior to God revealing this light to them are accepted.

www.sabbathtruth.org

Sabbath of the Lord

Was made at creation
(Genesis 2:1-3)

Spoken by God personally
(Exodus 20:1, 8-11)

Written in stone by God Himself
(Exodus 31:18)

Put inside the Ark of the Covenant
(Deuteronomy 10:5)

Was established before sin
(Genesis 2:1-3)

Breaking the Sabbath is sin
(1 John 3:4)

The Sabbath is eternal
(Exodus 31:16-17, Isaiah 66:22-23)

It is a law of love
(Matthew 22:35-40, Isaiah 58:13-14)

It is a law of liberty (freedom)
(James 1:25, 2:10-12)

God calls it MY Sabbath
(Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:20)

The Sabbath is for everyone
(Mark 2:27)

Ceremonial Sabbaths

Were made after Sinai
(Exodus 20:24)

Spoken by Moses
(Exodus 24:3)

Written by Moses hand on paper
(Exodus 24:4)

Stored on the outside of the Ark
(Deuteronomy 31:26)

Were established after sin
(Exodus 20:24)

These were kept because of sin (See Leviticus)
Were nailed to the cross
(Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15)

They were not love
(Colossians 2:14, Galatians 4:9-10)

They were bondage
(Galatians 4:9-10, Colossians 2:14)

God calls them HER sabbaths
(Hosea 2:11, Lamentations 1:7)

Only for the children of Israel & Jews
(Old & New Testament)
 
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Thebiblealone

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The joke is on you because It is commentary.
All these quotes are taken from "book-writers" and not from the Catholic Catechism.

Official quote from The Catholic Catechism
Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer - “Saturday is the Sabbath day.”

Question - “Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?”
Answer – “We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.


Most Protestants churches dont agree with Catholics traditions or Claims of being the Church. We're So, rather than you SDA post your doctrinal statements, you misrepresent the other churches. I find it a familiar pattern to I have to sift through your claim from Peter Geiermann.


After reading the Catholic Catechism.... Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment those questions and answers are not quoted in the Catechism. So I find that SDA have an agenda to misrepresent other churches.
Let the record show that the official claim from the Catholic Catechism is that the day after the sabbath (the8th day) was a new creation....

Among other statements The Catechism quotes from early church fathers, who claimed they kept Sunday not Sabbaths and not both days.






Most Protestants churches dont agree with Catholics traditions and their Claims of being the only Church, but we know their history is different from what is being present at your camp meetings.
Rather than post your doctrinal statements, you misrepresent the other churches.



I will not respond again until I get some biblcal evidence of your truth on this issue.

Okay I am not going to fall into the stereotype of quoting from Catholic sources themselves. However I would suggest you go to your local library friend. That actually is their catechism. They don't mind you knowing they attempted to change the Sabbath. Have you read the amazing prophecy in Daniel 7? Friend look closely at Daniel 7 in in Daniel 12 we are told Daniel was to seal this prophetic book up and shut it up until the time of the end take a look at the whole book but pay attention at verses 23-28 notice verse 24 says the beast will subdue three kings I'm not making this up friend. This isn't Seventh-Day Adventist, Commentary this isn't Catholic Commentary this isn't Baptist or Methodist commentary this is Bible doctrine. Prophecy send to edify you and I to prepare us for the time of the end. It hurts my heart the heart of God to see His children arguing on a public forum causing others to stumble over such things. I want to say I love my Catholic Christians so does Jesus He is a loving God. The pope is but a man a man who can like all man say true and just are thy ways. This is not an attack on people but error. If your familiar with Daniel 2 you remember Rome would be divided. This vision was given to King Nebuchadnezzar in the from the God of Heaven showing him what would happen starting from his kingdom Babylon all the way down until Jesus came the second time. We knew he was the head of Gold Daniel said that in Daniel 2:38 Babylon of old is the starting point of this ancient prophecy. In Daniel 2:28 Daniel says "He" speaking of the great God of heaven who you and I and everyone who is reading this post on his Christian forum who we want to serve an obey rather than man no matter the cost has made known to you what will be in latter days. Meaning last days. So he goes on to say that another kingdom inferior to his will conquer his. Read the story in Daniel 2 it's a chest of Silver but in Daniel 7 it's a Beast. Daniel 7:17 tells us what a beast represents in Bible prophecy friend it says it represents a king. Think about it even today. Our great nations are represented by beast right? Meaning animals? So when you open that scary book or Revelation and you see a beast you know it's talking about a king or a nation. You need the whole Bible. So the same kingdoms in Daniel 2 are just repeated in Daniel 7. We had Babylon which was conquered by Medo Persia in 539 B.C look it up check everything I'm telling you. Go to the library open your Bible. Don't take my word for it but if it's there don't hesitate. For now is the acceptable time. Remember this vision was about what would happen in the last days. Go back to Daniel 2 the next thing to happen prophetically is Jesus' soon return. Our blessed hope. I know a history buff will read this and say I know Alexander the Great in 331 B.C took out the Medes and the Persions well in 331 that's when they fell. The word of God never fails. This prophecy was told before Babylon fell friend. Rome had the seat of power longest. You know they were in power when our Lord died for us. When He died to show us the greatest expression of love. You know he says if you love me keep my commandments. John 14:15. Do you love Jesus. He also said in vain do they worship me teaching as doctrines the commandments of man. Matthew 15:9 But Rome never fell it was divided in Daniel 2 represented as ten toes prophecied that it would never unite again that's Daniel 2:42-43. However MANY world leaders tried to unite the nations of divided Rome which is what we now know as Europe. Through royal marriages and so on. I'll name a few people that tried such efforts. Again check such bold claims. Charlemagne tried and failed. Charles V and Louis XIV tried and failed. Napoleon Bonaparte tried and failed. What was Hitler trying to do? Did you know he actually knew the prophet of Daniel? That's why he wrote his own bible. But he to failed. These men ignored prophecy. Friend don't ignore prophecy. Let's go back to the first verses of prophetic excellence I introduced found in the glorious writings God gave through Daniel so they could be put on this Christian forum because many sheep He has that are not in this fold. But they hear His voice. Do you hear His voice? Do you know how to identify the voice of the Lord? It's quite simple? When you hear a thus saith the Lord or an it is written that's the voice of almighty God. The voice of the greater the one who in the beginning created. Do you hear His voice? Daniel 7:23 the 4th beast or King was different from all the others it will shall devour the whole earth. The ten horns this beast or kingdom had ten horns or kings sub divisions you know the toes you seen in Daniel 2. Isn't prophecy excellent. God doesn't nothing unless he reveals it through His servers the prophets. If he changed the Sabbath he would have raised a prophet during biblical times and clearly stated it. However to have done that it would not have been in his never changing never altering never fading moral law. But I'm about to show you God had a prophet before He walked this earth warn us of this change. Then told Danel to seal the book until the time of the end in Daniel 12:4 that's not it this book along with Revelation the two apocalyptic books dealing with the beast the the church and the time of the end are written in code so you need to pray you need the Holy Ghost you need discernment you need to study. John 17:17 sanctify through thy truth thy word is truth. If the word of God pointed out and said watch out for this plainly the enemy could stop the message from calling the saints but no no God had a plan he sealed the book and in 1844 they studied they had a bitter sweet experience they for the first time in the Christian church understood Daniel. Now we know. But Daniel 7:24 says another beast another king different from the Kings that were already there rose up and subdued three kings. It spoke pompous words or blasphemy. Do you know what blasphemous words are? Well the Pharisees and Sadducees hated the ministry of Jesus and his diciples. You see Jesus kept the Sabbath right he understood the prophecies correctly he eventually thought them to his followers not only his 12 but the other sheep as well. Jew and Gentiles alike. You've heard of the story of the gentile woman he healed on that long journey right? Before he even died on the cross He made a long journey for one gentile and with his love drew her to Him. For many sheep He has that are not in this fold. But they know His voice. Do you hear the voice of the Lord? They accused Jesus of blasphemy because He said he had the power to forgive sins. Matthew 9:2-6 But Jesus was indeed God so he did not commit blasphemy. They accused him also of commiting blasphemy for saying that He was indeed one with God for they said it was just a mere claim. John 10:30-33 but Jesus is God we see in that He refers to himself as the great I AM we know that no man actually has seen Jehovah and lived after the fall so that indeed was Jesus in the burning bush. We know it was Jesus appearing to the patriarchs and prophets in the Old Testament. If you would like biblical evidences for these claims I would love to share. So note any man who is not God in the flesh and God will not return to this earth again and touch the earth until after the 1000 year period is done when he returns again in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 says he will decent mean come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise and we which are alive will be caught up meaning we will rise with him. Matthew 24:26 if anyone tells you Christ is anywhere the desert the Vatican the Adventist church or your home church friend don't believe it. It's a lie generated by the father or lies sent to deceive you and steal you away from the one who shed his blood to save you for all eternity. In vain do they worship me Jesus said. In the last days he will say to some depart from me for I never knew you. I don't want those to be the words Jesus says to me. So any man who is not God and claims to be God is speaking pompous words or is speaking blasphemy also any man who is saying they can forgive you or cleanse you of your sins. On calvery Jesus hung on an old rugged cross. For Jew and Gentile. For Catholic and Baptist. For Democrat and Republican rich and poor. Seventh-Day Adventist and Lutheran he is not a respecter of persons. Meaning he does not esteem one person over another. He loves you just like he loves me. I didn't die for you friend.. I can't forgive you of your sins neither can any other man. No man alive can. So I he says he can according to the bible he is speaking blasphemy. According to this prophecy that was sealed until the end times. Keep reading verse 25 remember to identify this king it will need to fit every identifying mark this prophecy was prophecies by the God of heaven before the power existed! How great is our God! This isn't commentary! This is Bible doctrine. This brother is what is preached and toughed around the world. Did you know Martin Luther believed this thing. Isaac Newton believed this thing. It's true look this thing up. Martin Luther believed it before he even understood the book of Daniel. Unbelievable how great is our God. I take your a Protestant by your post on this forum. Do you know what a Protestant means? Go to your library and read the comments from the source itself. Study the history of the dark ages. The Bible says this King shall persecute the saints or the Most High, and shall intend or think not have the power to or the authority to not the keys or the high honor not ability but intend to change times and law. Let's pause the verse isn't done. How many commandment do you know that deal with laws friend. Please this is not an attack on people. So far this power comes from Rome. Please read Daniel 2 and 7 check for yourself look at history this is not commentary. Again I comment on a 5 year post because the Lord brought me to an old forum for such a time as this someone will stumble on misunderstanding on the word of God. You both are children of the most High God. I want you both in the kingdom. SDA or not! The Sabbath is the Sabbath! How do you say Saturday in Spanish? And all these other languages it's all these variations to Sabbath. Rest rest for your mind and soul. Friend the Bible names two days Sabbath and the preparation the 6th and 7th day only. The other days are numbers. Did you know that our week days and week ends are actually pagan. Just like Sunday worship. Now please nobody reading this take this as an attack on you. In the time of ignorance God winks. Acts 17:30 but in Egypt they worship the sun the creation instead of the creator and all these other pagan nations. Pagan Rome they did that right before Constantine for political reasons converted to Christianity and soon after way after the deaths of the apostles that's why there is no biblical record of it changed the day of worship to coincide of his pagan sun worship ritual. Look it up friends. Jehovah or Baal. I mean it in love. But Monday was the moon's day Sunday was the sun's day Tuesday was Thor's day Wednesday was Woden's day or Odins day Tuesday is Tyr's day or Tiw's day now friend I tell you this because prophets prophecy and truth is to edifying you now I'm no prophet but the prophecy and the truth found in Daniel is to edify you. It's not wrong to say Monday or Tuesday or Saturday but it has pagan origins like Sunday. The devil has turned Gods earth into a pagan world he said he would be like the most high do you remember that? Isaiah 14:14 also if you really keep the Sabbath on Sunday which you can't because God never sanctified that day. To sanctify means to set aside for a holy use. He did that to the Seventh only. He rested on that day to signify His creative power at creation in Genesis He rested after they took Him off the cross and laid Him in the rock to signify his redemptive power. He raised on the first day because the work was done He could go home. I have a question for first day keepers. If Jesus did indeed change the Sabbath which I believe you love the Bible and you search the Bible for your faith. By now you are hungering and thirsting for Bible truth so you are standing in on the command of God over man. Yes to Jehovah's Moral law and no to the little horn power that thinks to change times and laws. Am I right. For in vain do they worship me. That's bible. Not commentary. Well we can say that's commentary from Jesus. Yeshua the Messiah. Jesus the Christ. But if you kept Sunday you would keep it from evening to evening because evening and evening was the first day that's the way Adam all the way down to the apostles kept the Sabbath. That's the time period that was actually blessed. If the sanctification was actually changed then you would have to keep it the way God intended. See your using what Rome established. We're on Roman time keeping now friend. Sabbatarians all over the world keep the Sabbath this way the Jews, Seventh-Day Baptist, Seventh-Day Adventist all other congregation. Also do you keep it accordingly? Do you keep from worldly affairs? Do you take the day from word and remember God created? The 4th commandment days remember for what I believe to be two reasons. One because it was kept before God wrote it with his very finger. Proof in Genesis 16. But also we know that Adam and Eve had all Ten Commandments including the Sabbath. Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 so Adam and Eve had to have broken the law to have sinned. The Bible tells us we wouldn't know what sin is if we didn't have Gods Ten Commandments. Romans 7:7 the Bible said that Genesis 3:6 Eve saw that the tree was good and it was pleasant to we eyes check this out friend and a tree desirable to make one wise. What commandment did she break? Exodus 20:17 thou shalt not covet. That's one of the Ten Commandments. That's not all she continues sin starts in the heart the devil starts in the mind. It said she took it. Did that fruit belong to her? No it didn't. Out of all the trees in the garden she could eat but no that one. Genesis 2:16 what commandment did she break Exodus 20:15 thou shalt not steals so she broke numbers 8 and ten. So she did break the law there for she sinned. The bible said the devil sinned from the beginning. 1 John 3:8 The devil that old deceiver broke the law in heaven. We know he Sabbath was actually a memorial of the creation of this world so that's a law given specifically for us as a reminder that God has creative and redemptive power. Not only times but laws does this little horn power think to change. Remember my emphasis on paganism. Have you looked at the Ten Commandments lately? Have you compared them to the Ten Commandments of those found in the Catholic Bible? Real quick let me list them 1)Thou shalt not have no other Gods. 2)No graven images or illnesses. 3)Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain. 4) Remember the sabbath day. 5) Honour thy father and thy mother. 6) Thou shalt not kill. 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8.) Thou shalt not steal. 9.) Thou shalt not bear false witness. 10.) Thou shalt not covet. Okay that's the moral law as given by Jehovah He sent his son Jesus to die because Couldn't change His law the wages of sin is death Romans 6:23. Jesus didn't die to do away with the Ten Commandments. No he did away with the law of Moses. They were a shadow pointing to him. Those were ceremonial laws. That's why we don't have to keep ceremonial Sabbaths if we don't want to. That's what that verse I commented on in Romans is referring to. The sabbath He Abolished that were against the people of Israel written with the hand writing of Moses. No more slaying lambs the Lamb of God did it all. If God could change His law there would be no need to sacrifice His son. But let's take a look at the commandments of Papal Rome. 1) I am the LORD your God you shall not have strange God's before me. 2)You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. 3) Remember to keep holy the LORD's day. 4) Honor your father and your mother. 5) You shall not kill. 6) You shall not commit Adultery. 7) You shall not steal. 8) You shall not commit false witness against your neighbor. 9) You shall not covet your neighbors wife. 10) You shall not covet your neighbors goods. First let me make it clear friend that there is no difference between the Lord's day and the Sabbath. Jesus said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. Matthew 12:8 not the first day of the week. Notice that the commandments are changed. God told Daniel ages ago before this power was even roaming the world that it would be unlike any power on the face of the earth. It would persecute God's saints. It would speak blasphemy it would come out of Rome it would think to change time it would think to change law. So far we have one that has done a few of these things. Notice the second commandment isn't there. Remember my emphasis on paganism? Which commandment is missing? The one that says thou shalt not bow down and worship images. Friend what did pagan Rome do? They worshipped images. What does papal Rome do? They have saints that they pray to. Now friend. This is not an attack on people. I love the people. But confusion and error is what I am trying to clear up. Prophecy came down from heaven Jesus said in vain do they worship me teach as doctrine the commandments of men. Matthew 15:9 doctrine is defined as a belief or set of beliefs held or taught by a church or political party look it up in your own dictionary. Do you hold the belief system thought by anyone else but Jesus or the Bible patriarchs, prophets or apostles? Jesus talks about people of faith coming to Him on the day of judgement and he will tell them depart from me ye that work iniquity for I never knew ye. Matthew 7:23 these were miracle workers, preachers, healers. Iniquity is the worst type of sin. It's when you know to do right but you don't do it. Friend the Bible has been presented. In the time of ignorance God winks. You said you wanted Bible not commentary. You've been presented with history. I said I wasn't going to give you quotes from the source but I feel moved by the spirit of God almighty to quote history and you can look it up I will give references. Go to your local library. I've given you history. Let the Bible speak. Many sheep I have that are not in this fold says the Lord. This is a time prophecy. This is how we know the Bible is for sure the word of God. The Bible is 33 percent prophecy. The writings of Muhammad contain no prophecy. The writings of Buddha contain no prophecy. The Bible is 1/3 prophecy. God raised a movement in the last days to understand prophecy and the Bible. I followed the teachings of the little horn power most of my life. I too was a Protestant by name but not doctrine. Now I teach and believe the doctrine of Jesus. The Bible says in the rest of verse 25 of Daniel 7 that the saints would be given in his hand speaking of the little horn for times time and a half of time. Well my bible scholars we know prophetically that three and a half times here are talking about three and a half lunar years using the same methodology as we use in the 70 week prophecy found in Daniel. Now that's 360 days each lunar year. They calculate to 1260 actual days. Now when it comes to prophecy and the Bible in general line must be upon line and precept upon precept right. Let me show you how amazing this is. The same time period is mentioned in Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Okay. Now let's see if the calculations are actuate. Does it really represent 3 1/2 lunar years adding up to 1260 days. Look at Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. In the Bible over and over again a woman is represented as a church. Jesus is the bridegroom coming for his bride right? Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27 but the Bible talks about an apostate church it even calls her a harlot and a mother of harlots. Revelation 14:4; Ezekiel 16:15-58; 23:2:21; Hosea 2:5; 3:1 one more verse talking about this prophetic time period. Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. So we have a sure word or prophecy. This is Bible doctrine friend. I'm not sharing the commentary of anyone but Jesus. In love and true kindness. I hope you see this not as an attack on anything but error. Other sheep I have that are not of this fold Jesus said John 10:16 but He said then also must I bring and there will be one fold and one shepherd. Now this is key. When we are students of the Bible. We wonder why did God give us prophecies. Because he wanted to guide his people. You see he's calling all that would to his truth. Ezekiel has a link to understanding prophecy. Ezekiel 4:6 “And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.” Okay so we know when we are talking about prophecy we have a day for a year principle. We're. It talking about 1260 literal days but 1260 prophetic years. This little horn power will persecute God's saints for 1260 literal years. Let's test the word of God. No commentary. Now a judgment that demands a verdict. 1) It came to power among the ten divisions of Europe (ten horns) (Daniel 7:8) (Yes Papal Rome did do that) 2) It came to power after A.D. 476 because the "little horn" succeeded pagan Rome, which fell in that year (Daniel 7:7,8) ("Vigilius...ascended the papal chair (538 A.D.) under the military protection of Belisarius." History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 327) 3) It began as a little horn as a little power at its beginning (Daniel 7:8) (notice this one had eyes and a mouth like a man. It had a man at its head) 4) It uprooted three horns. (Daniel 7:8,24) (History, Science and prophecy all point to in the beginning God created. Look at history. This little horn uprooted the Heruli they are extinct now so are the Vandals that's where we get Vandalism from and we longer have the Ostrogoths. 5) Again a man would be at its head (Daniel 7:8 also look at 2 Thessalonians 2:3) 6) It is different from the others. (Daniel 7:24) (They were all political powers. State powers only. This is a church state power. They mixed church and state together. 7) The little horn would speak pompous words those words of blasphemy. They would say they had the power to forgive men of their sins and also put themselves in the place of God. (The Pope is supposed to be the Vicar of Christ on earth that means he is Christ on earth. He's saying He's God. Blasphemy. The Vatican released we all know that good Catholic Christians whole heartedly believe that they need to go to a catholic priest to confess their sins. Not knowing they are carrying every sin they ever committed to this day unless they took it to Jesus because He alone can forgive them. I say this with Love. That's blasphemy.) (Again those verses were Matthew 9:2-6 and John 10:33) 8) The little horn would wear out and kill many of God's children. (Daniel 7:25) (I was went to Peru and seen one of the inquisition museums where they did some of the most awful killings of those who would not denounce the truth. During this 1260-year reign, the papal persecutions brought the death of millions. 9) The little horn antichrist would think to change times and law (Daniel 7:25) The Catholic Church notes the changes it made in it's catechism. You said you seen it friend and it was inaccurate. Friend please really look at it I seen what my Adventist friend posted that's the actual Statement from the Catholics converts catechism. If you knew what the founding fathers of the Protestant church went through so we could freely worship and know Jesus we would gladly study. Martin Luther believed this that's why he separated he just didn't have the prophecies. The Sabbath wasn't then revealed. You see paganism was indoctrinated into the Christian church it took a years for God to cleanse is Church but we are back to the teachings of the master. We don't teach purgatory because it's not biblical that's paganism. We don't teach the immortality of the soul because only God is immortal 1 Timothy 6:16 but we will be changed one day and we will put on immortality 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 those truths God revealed a little at a time. But Martin Luther knew we were saved by Grace. I'm a Lutheran just like the baptist were studying and knew we needed to be baptized by immersion not sprinkling. I'm a baptist see I get baptized by immersion. But I reject all of the extra biblical pagan doctrines of men. God intended of these movements to follow him Lutheran would not be a Lutheran today I tell you that. When God called the Baptist Martin Luther would have been a Baptist. Catholics call themselves the mother church. They don't mind telling you that Protestants follow their doctrines. Talk to a priest I have. Many ministers from my church sit down with priest all the time and discuss this thing. We have no problem with Catholics we love Catholic people. It's error that I am against. It moved the second commandment that forbids idolatry and changed the fourth commandment requiring worship on the seventh day of the week. Then divided the last commandment in two to complete the set to make it a full set of ten.) 10) The little horn power would rule "for a time and times and a half a time" -elsewhere presented in the Bible as 1260 days or forty-two months of prophetic time. We know that is 1260 literal years. What would happen at the end of these 1260 prophetic years Revelation 13:3 says the beast would get a deadly wound let's test the word of God. Friend Gods word never fails. Is the Papacy this little horn power? It took its seat in 538 A.D. Let's add 1260 years we pass the age of Daniel pass the age off pagan Rome and our Lord Jesus' early ministry. We end up at the year 1798. Did anything unique happen to any of the popes in the year 1798. To fulfill this prophecy the beast would need to recover a deadly wound and stop its supreme reign on the earth. YeS IT DID! On February 10th Napoleon Bonaparte in that EXACT year 1798 A.D. sent his General Louis Alexandre Berthier, with his armyinto Rome, Italy. It is recorded... "In 1798 General Berthier made his entrance into Rome, abolished the papal government, and established a secular one. Now we know just like the Bible said that the wound is healed. We have the Vatican. But the Bible says the whole world will one day wonder after the beast. For the first time in history the pope is addressing American congress. He said on Vatican radio not long ago that we need a national Sunday law. We have what we call Sunday blue laws in America today that's laws that are not enforced. What about “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:18‬. The verse starts out by saying here is what here is wisdom. Count the number of the beast we know that it's talking about the little horn it's the number of a man it says. It adds up to 666. The title of the man that it's at the head of this power. People say it's Barack Obama he doesn't fit the identify marks in Daniel 7 does he? Did he think to change times and laws? God's times and laws? Persecute the saints for 1260 years from 538 A.D. - 1798 A.D. Rise from Europe receive a deadly mark speak blasphemy is a a religious and political power uproot three of the other horns and all the other identifying marks? No one else fits. No one else proudly admits these claims. Let's take his title if you look at pictures of the pope there is a huge hat he wears or wore with these Latin words Vicarius Filii Dei Vicarius literally means substituting for or in place of Filii literally means Son Dei means GOD so his title means in the place of the Son of God. Remember I said he claims to be Jesus. That's where I get it from. The title is actually else where other than the hat. But using the Roman numeral. Here is knowledge. Given by God glory to Him. V=5 I=1 C=100 A=0 R=0 I=1 U=5 S=0 (112) F=0 I=1 L=50 I=1 I=1 (53) D=500 E=0 I=1 (501) 112+53+501=666 The word of God never fails. That's not commentary. That's the word of God. My church doesn't teach doctrine doctrine to hurt people friend but to bring people to Jesus whom they love. Each and every person is on this forum because they are drawn by the Holy Spirit even if they are trolling. The word anti in your strongs dictionary word 473 is a Greek word to denote substation so it means to be a subscription do Christ in stead of someone who is against Christ. Do you love Jesus enough to keep his commandments? If God could change His law why would He send His Son to die because of the law that was broken? God doesn't change. The devil has always wanted to change Gods law he's using the Vatican now right now your seeing a prophecy maybe for the first time. Papal Rome unapologetically, unashamedly, unabashedly thought to change times and law attempted to paganize Christianity. To substitute man who is mortal for Messiah for Christ who was always with Jehovah the one who died and bled for my sins. So I will unapologetically, unashamedly and unabashedly spread the unadulterated gospel of Jesus. Sunday is not the Lord's day friend the beautiful prophecy of Daniel warned us of this little horns attempt before you and I were thought of.

“Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The hour of His judgment has come notice this is a last day message and its calling us back to creation back to the Ten Commandments significantly back to the lost one the 4th commandment that's a quote from the 4th commandment. "Worship him that made the heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountain of waters."

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

“And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Friend spiritual Babylon what we know as papal Rome or the little horn power and all of the churches that are indoctrinated are fallen. Sunday sacredness has fallen the mortality of the soul has fallen.

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Here is the patience of the saints. Look at their characteristics they keep the commandments of God. The ones given by Jehovah not Rome. The ones kept my Adam and Eve and the prophets The Israelites the Christian Jews and Gentiles alike. They also have the faith of Jesus. The same faith the apostles had the unadulterated faith. Babylon has fallen. There will be so many Catholics in the last days who will hear the words well done thou good and faithful servant. Do you know who I'm sure of that. Do you know how many Catholic Christians there are in the world today that love Jesus. The Christian world is predominately Catholic. But in the last days these days they will have to leave Babylon in order to hear those words so will you and will will never be able to leave my Jesus and return to Babylon or will will hear depart from me ye who work iniquity those dreadful words I never want my master my precious savior to say to me for I love Him so. I hope you see from the Bible that Jesus has one fold and the Bible calls it a remnant.

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But let's read what verse 4 says it identify a these special chosen remnant then what don't they do

“But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God has a people who will refuse to bow down to Baal. Just like the three Hebrew boys in Daniel chapter 3. When King Nebuchadnezzar made the golden image indicating Babylon would reign forever I will not bow down to Baal because I know Babylon will fall it will fall but the Lord ask a question to all who reads his Holy word.

“And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.”
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭18:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The devil is angry at the woman the church and wants to make war with the remnant of her seed look at that there is still some left. It is identical to that which was in the apostolic time. They have to teach the same unadulterated teachings. They believe the same things Jesus taught. Worshipped the same day. They were Sabbatarians they knew only God has immortality they had the gift of Prophetic knowledge. The were always keepers of the law. God spoke the law directly to Adam and Eve in the garden the Israelites had to have it written for them in stone now it's written in our hearts. Hebrews 10:16

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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Cribstyl

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Hello there, well I do see I am 5 years late on your theological debate on the topic. Which I do believe was off topic. However I am sorry that you think Seventh-Day Adventist Christians use "commentary" and not Bible. Exodus 20:8-11 is Bible. That's when the command was actually given. An eternal law my friend. Given by an eternal never changing God. But they actually kept it before then you can see that according to Exodus 16:22,23 we will keep it in Heaven Isaiah 66:23 it's made for man not not man for it according to Mark 2:27 notice it said man not Jews. But I really commented to clear up your misunderstanding about the text you quoted 5 years ago if no one has yet.
Yes, It's been 5yrs. I'm still looking for biblical truths from SDA. I'm sorry to report my finding is, that so-called Adventist truths are manufactured and not facts from scriptures. We've been through the loops with what these text references supposed to imply. Obviously you're talking about the Sabbath commandment. Explain why God would make Sabbath a covenant between Him and the Children of Israel and not the world? You cant deny that God made circumcision and Passover for the Children of Israel and not the world. If you can prove that God gave Sabbath for the world and not just the Children of Israel then there's scriptural evidence that God lied. Sad to say that you've cleared up nothing at all.
Those who believe Jesus when He says not one jot or tittle would disappear from the law until heaven and earth pass away would have to agree that Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭5‬ is not talking about the 4th commandment. Stomp your feet, the earth is still there. Look up in the sky the heavens are still there. The word of God never fails us friend. The Bible is our source of hope. I agree no commentary here friend on Christ the solid rock I stand. I know I'm 5 years late you may have a biblical understand of this verse now but someone else may read this discussion and stumble because of the debate you and my Adventist friend had.
If righteousness without the law was written in the law and the prophets, "Lucy you've got some splaining to do."
Rom 3:21 ¶But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

We do not believe that the ten commandments (God's moral laws) were abolished at the cross. The law of love would cause Christians to want to keep God's moral laws through grace (i.e. not murder, not commit adultery), it does not free them to then freely murder. The same logic is applied to the 4th commandment, which is specified as the 7th day of the week in the commandment (Exodus 20:10).
Same old commentary arguments... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Therefore, when Romans 14:5 is read in this context, we believe it is referring to religious holidays. The central issue during the apostolic times were circumcision, eating foods sacrificed to idols, keeping ceremonial feasts and holy days (including the rest days of those festivals). We are free to not keep ceremonial feasts and holy days because they were a "shadow of things to come" (Colossians 2:16-17) (i.e. they were ceremonies that pointed forward to the actual works of Jesus). However, the Sabbath is not a shadow, it represents a memorial of creation, sanctified at creation by God Himself.
Same old no proof arguments.

The vegetarians in Roman 14:1 is about those early Christians who became vegetarians to avoid food sacrificed to idols, in accordance to Act 15:29. However, the vegan diet advocated by Seventh-Day Adventists relates to modern foods. Modern animals are raised entirely different from how they used to before. This is the same reason why the organic food movement is popular today, except 7th Day Adventists realized this in the 1850s. Vegetarianism is not a requirement but is greatly advised for heath reasons.

While Sabbath keeping Adventists do believe that breaking the Sabbath is a sin, they do believe all those who kept Sunday prior to God revealing this light to them are accepted.

www.sabbathtruth.org

Sabbath of the Lord

Was made at creation
(Genesis 2:1-3)

Spoken by God personally
(Exodus 20:1, 8-11)

Written in stone by God Himself
(Exodus 31:18)

Put inside the Ark of the Covenant
(Deuteronomy 10:5)

Was established before sin
(Genesis 2:1-3)

Breaking the Sabbath is sin
(1 John 3:4)

The Sabbath is eternal
(Exodus 31:16-17, Isaiah 66:22-23)

It is a law of love
(Matthew 22:35-40, Isaiah 58:13-14)

It is a law of liberty (freedom)
(James 1:25, 2:10-12)

God calls it MY Sabbath
(Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:20)

The Sabbath is for everyone
(Mark 2:27)

Ceremonial Sabbaths

Were made after Sinai
(Exodus 20:24)

Spoken by Moses
(Exodus 24:3)

Written by Moses hand on paper
(Exodus 24:4)

Stored on the outside of the Ark
(Deuteronomy 31:26)

Were established after sin
(Exodus 20:24)

These were kept because of sin (See Leviticus)
Were nailed to the cross
(Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15)

They were not love
(Colossians 2:14, Galatians 4:9-10)

They were bondage
(Galatians 4:9-10, Colossians 2:14)

God calls them HER sabbaths
(Hosea 2:11, Lamentations 1:7)

Only for the children of Israel & Jews
(Old & New Testament)
That may work for you, but you've have not settled even 1 issue.
 
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Cribstyl

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Okay I am not going to fall into the stereotype of quoting from Catholic sources themselves. However I would suggest you go to your local library friend. That actually is their catechism. They don't mind you knowing they attempted to change the Sabbath. Have you read the amazing prophecy in Daniel 7? Friend look closely at Daniel 7 in in Daniel 12 we are told Daniel was to seal this prophetic book up and shut it up until the time of the end take a look at the whole book but pay attention at verses 23-28 notice verse 24 says the beast will subdue three kings I'm not making this up friend. This isn't Seventh-Day Adventist, Commentary this isn't Catholic Commentary this isn't Baptist or Methodist commentary this is Bible doctrine. Prophecy send to edify you and I to prepare us for the time of the end. It hurts my heart the heart of God to see His children arguing on a public forum causing others to stumble over such things. I want to say I love my Catholic Christians so does Jesus He is a loving God. The pope is but a man a man who can like all man say true and just are thy ways. This is not an attack on people but error. If your familiar with Daniel 2 you remember Rome would be divided. This vision was given to King Nebuchadnezzar in the from the God of Heaven showing him what would happen starting from his kingdom Babylon all the way down until Jesus came the second time. We knew he was the head of Gold Daniel said that in Daniel 2:38 Babylon of old is the starting point of this ancient prophecy. In Daniel 2:28 Daniel says "He" speaking of the great God of heaven who you and I and everyone who is reading this post on his Christian forum who we want to serve an obey rather than man no matter the cost has made known to you what will be in latter days. Meaning last days. So he goes on to say that another kingdom inferior to his will conquer his. Read the story in Daniel 2 it's a chest of Silver but in Daniel 7 it's a Beast. Daniel 7:17 tells us what a beast represents in Bible prophecy friend it says it represents a king. Think about it even today. Our great nations are represented by beast right? Meaning animals? So when you open that scary book or Revelation and you see a beast you know it's talking about a king or a nation. You need the whole Bible. So the same kingdoms in Daniel 2 are just repeated in Daniel 7. We had Babylon which was conquered by Medo Persia in 539 B.C look it up check everything I'm telling you. Go to the library open your Bible. Don't take my word for it but if it's there don't hesitate. For now is the acceptable time. Remember this vision was about what would happen in the last days. Go back to Daniel 2 the next thing to happen prophetically is Jesus' soon return. Our blessed hope. I know a history buff will read this and say I know Alexander the Great in 331 B.C took out the Medes and the Persions well in 331 that's when they fell. The word of God never fails. This prophecy was told before Babylon fell friend. Rome had the seat of power longest. You know they were in power when our Lord died for us. When He died to show us the greatest expression of love. You know he says if you love me keep my commandments. John 14:15. Do you love Jesus. He also said in vain do they worship me teaching as doctrines the commandments of man. Matthew 15:9 But Rome never fell it was divided in Daniel 2 represented as ten toes prophecied that it would never unite again that's Daniel 2:42-43. However MANY world leaders tried to unite the nations of divided Rome which is what we now know as Europe. Through royal marriages and so on. I'll name a few people that tried such efforts. Again check such bold claims. Charlemagne tried and failed. Charles V and Louis XIV tried and failed. Napoleon Bonaparte tried and failed. What was Hitler trying to do? Did you know he actually knew the prophet of Daniel? That's why he wrote his own bible. But he to failed. These men ignored prophecy. Friend don't ignore prophecy. Let's go back to the first verses of prophetic excellence I introduced found in the glorious writings God gave through Daniel so they could be put on this Christian forum because many sheep He has that are not in this fold. But they hear His voice. Do you hear His voice? Do you know how to identify the voice of the Lord? It's quite simple? When you hear a thus saith the Lord or an it is written that's the voice of almighty God. The voice of the greater the one who in the beginning created. Do you hear His voice? Daniel 7:23 the 4th beast or King was different from all the others it will shall devour the whole earth. The ten horns this beast or kingdom had ten horns or kings sub divisions you know the toes you seen in Daniel 2. Isn't prophecy excellent. God doesn't nothing unless he reveals it through His servers the prophets. If he changed the Sabbath he would have raised a prophet during biblical times and clearly stated it. However to have done that it would not have been in his never changing never altering never fading moral law. But I'm about to show you God had a prophet before He walked this earth warn us of this change. Then told Danel to seal the book until the time of the end in Daniel 12:4 that's not it this book along with Revelation the two apocalyptic books dealing with the beast the the church and the time of the end are written in code so you need to pray you need the Holy Ghost you need discernment you need to study. John 17:17 sanctify through thy truth thy word is truth. If the word of God pointed out and said watch out for this plainly the enemy could stop the message from calling the saints but no no God had a plan he sealed the book and in 1844 they studied they had a bitter sweet experience they for the first time in the Christian church understood Daniel. Now we know. But Daniel 7:24 says another beast another king different from the Kings that were already there rose up and subdued three kings. It spoke pompous words or blasphemy. Do you know what blasphemous words are? Well the Pharisees and Sadducees hated the ministry of Jesus and his diciples. You see Jesus kept the Sabbath right he understood the prophecies correctly he eventually thought them to his followers not only his 12 but the other sheep as well. Jew and Gentiles alike. You've heard of the story of the gentile woman he healed on that long journey right? Before he even died on the cross He made a long journey for one gentile and with his love drew her to Him. For many sheep He has that are not in this fold. But they know His voice. Do you hear the voice of the Lord? They accused Jesus of blasphemy because He said he had the power to forgive sins. Matthew 9:2-6 But Jesus was indeed God so he did not commit blasphemy. They accused him also of commiting blasphemy for saying that He was indeed one with God for they said it was just a mere claim. John 10:30-33 but Jesus is God we see in that He refers to himself as the great I AM we know that no man actually has seen Jehovah and lived after the fall so that indeed was Jesus in the burning bush. We know it was Jesus appearing to the patriarchs and prophets in the Old Testament. If you would like biblical evidences for these claims I would love to share. So note any man who is not God in the flesh and God will not return to this earth again and touch the earth until after the 1000 year period is done when he returns again in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 says he will decent mean come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise and we which are alive will be caught up meaning we will rise with him. Matthew 24:26 if anyone tells you Christ is anywhere the desert the Vatican the Adventist church or your home church friend don't believe it. It's a lie generated by the father or lies sent to deceive you and steal you away from the one who shed his blood to save you for all eternity. In vain do they worship me Jesus said. In the last days he will say to some depart from me for I never knew you. I don't want those to be the words Jesus says to me. So any man who is not God and claims to be God is speaking pompous words or is speaking blasphemy also any man who is saying they can forgive you or cleanse you of your sins. On calvery Jesus hung on an old rugged cross. For Jew and Gentile. For Catholic and Baptist. For Democrat and Republican rich and poor. Seventh-Day Adventist and Lutheran he is not a respecter of persons. Meaning he does not esteem one person over another. He loves you just like he loves me. I didn't die for you friend.. I can't forgive you of your sins neither can any other man. No man alive can. So I he says he can according to the bible he is speaking blasphemy. According to this prophecy that was sealed until the end times. Keep reading verse 25 remember to identify this king it will need to fit every identifying mark this prophecy was prophecies by the God of heaven before the power existed! How great is our God! This isn't commentary! This is Bible doctrine. This brother is what is preached and toughed around the world. Did you know Martin Luther believed this thing. Isaac Newton believed this thing. It's true look this thing up. Martin Luther believed it before he even understood the book of Daniel. Unbelievable how great is our God. I take your a Protestant by your post on this forum. Do you know what a Protestant means? Go to your library and read the comments from the source itself. Study the history of the dark ages. The Bible says this King shall persecute the saints or the Most High, and shall intend or think not have the power to or the authority to not the keys or the high honor not ability but intend to change times and law. Let's pause the verse isn't done. How many commandment do you know that deal with laws friend. Please this is not an attack on people. So far this power comes from Rome. Please read Daniel 2 and 7 check for yourself look at history this is not commentary. Again I comment on a 5 year post because the Lord brought me to an old forum for such a time as this someone will stumble on misunderstanding on the word of God. You both are children of the most High God. I want you both in the kingdom. SDA or not! The Sabbath is the Sabbath! How do you say Saturday in Spanish? And all these other languages it's all these variations to Sabbath. Rest rest for your mind and soul. Friend the Bible names two days Sabbath and the preparation the 6th and 7th day only. The other days are numbers. Did you know that our week days and week ends are actually pagan. Just like Sunday worship. Now please nobody reading this take this as an attack on you. In the time of ignorance God winks. Acts 17:30 but in Egypt they worship the sun the creation instead of the creator and all these other pagan nations. Pagan Rome they did that right before Constantine for political reasons converted to Christianity and soon after way after the deaths of the apostles that's why there is no biblical record of it changed the day of worship to coincide of his pagan sun worship ritual. Look it up friends. Jehovah or Baal. I mean it in love. But Monday was the moon's day Sunday was the sun's day Tuesday was Thor's day Wednesday was Woden's day or Odins day Tuesday is Tyr's day or Tiw's day now friend I tell you this because prophets prophecy and truth is to edifying you now I'm no prophet but the prophecy and the truth found in Daniel is to edify you. It's not wrong to say Monday or Tuesday or Saturday but it has pagan origins like Sunday. The devil has turned Gods earth into a pagan world he said he would be like the most high do you remember that? Isaiah 14:14 also if you really keep the Sabbath on Sunday which you can't because God never sanctified that day. To sanctify means to set aside for a holy use. He did that to the Seventh only. He rested on that day to signify His creative power at creation in Genesis He rested after they took Him off the cross and laid Him in the rock to signify his redemptive power. He raised on the first day because the work was done He could go home. I have a question for first day keepers. If Jesus did indeed change the Sabbath which I believe you love the Bible and you search the Bible for your faith. By now you are hungering and thirsting for Bible truth so you are standing in on the command of God over man. Yes to Jehovah's Moral law and no to the little horn power that thinks to change times and laws. Am I right. For in vain do they worship me. That's bible. Not commentary. Well we can say that's commentary from Jesus. Yeshua the Messiah. Jesus the Christ. But if you kept Sunday you would keep it from evening to evening because evening and evening was the first day that's the way Adam all the way down to the apostles kept the Sabbath. That's the time period that was actually blessed. If the sanctification was actually changed then you would have to keep it the way God intended. See your using what Rome established. We're on Roman time keeping now friend. Sabbatarians all over the world keep the Sabbath this way the Jews, Seventh-Day Baptist, Seventh-Day Adventist all other congregation. Also do you keep it accordingly? Do you keep from worldly affairs? Do you take the day from word and remember God created? The 4th commandment days remember for what I believe to be two reasons. One because it was kept before God wrote it with his very finger. Proof in Genesis 16. But also we know that Adam and Eve had all Ten Commandments including the Sabbath. Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 so Adam and Eve had to have broken the law to have sinned. The Bible tells us we wouldn't know what sin is if we didn't have Gods Ten Commandments. Romans 7:7 the Bible said that Genesis 3:6 Eve saw that the tree was good and it was pleasant to we eyes check this out friend and a tree desirable to make one wise. What commandment did she break? Exodus 20:17 thou shalt not covet. That's one of the Ten Commandments. That's not all she continues sin starts in the heart the devil starts in the mind. It said she took it. Did that fruit belong to her? No it didn't. Out of all the trees in the garden she could eat but no that one. Genesis 2:16 what commandment did she break Exodus 20:15 thou shalt not steals so she broke numbers 8 and ten. So she did break the law there for she sinned. The bible said the devil sinned from the beginning. 1 John 3:8 The devil that old deceiver broke the law in heaven. We know he Sabbath was actually a memorial of the creation of this world so that's a law given specifically for us as a reminder that God has creative and redemptive power. Not only times but laws does this little horn power think to change. Remember my emphasis on paganism. Have you looked at the Ten Commandments lately? Have you compared them to the Ten Commandments of those found in the Catholic Bible? Real quick let me list them 1)Thou shalt not have no other Gods. 2)No graven images or illnesses. 3)Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain. 4) Remember the sabbath day. 5) Honour thy father and thy mother. 6) Thou shalt not kill. 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8.) Thou shalt not steal. 9.) Thou shalt not bear false witness. 10.) Thou shalt not covet. Okay that's the moral law as given by Jehovah He sent his son Jesus to die because Couldn't change His law the wages of sin is death Romans 6:23. Jesus didn't die to do away with the Ten Commandments. No he did away with the law of Moses. They were a shadow pointing to him. Those were ceremonial laws. That's why we don't have to keep ceremonial Sabbaths if we don't want to. That's what that verse I commented on in Romans is referring to. The sabbath He Abolished that were against the people of Israel written with the hand writing of Moses. No more slaying lambs the Lamb of God did it all. If God could change His law there would be no need to sacrifice His son. But let's take a look at the commandments of Papal Rome. 1) I am the LORD your God you shall not have strange God's before me. 2)You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. 3) Remember to keep holy the LORD's day. 4) Honor your father and your mother. 5) You shall not kill. 6) You shall not commit Adultery. 7) You shall not steal. 8) You shall not commit false witness against your neighbor. 9) You shall not covet your neighbors wife. 10) You shall not covet your neighbors goods. First let me make it clear friend that there is no difference between the Lord's day and the Sabbath. Jesus said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. Matthew 12:8 not the first day of the week. Notice that the commandments are changed. God told Daniel ages ago before this power was even roaming the world that it would be unlike any power on the face of the earth. It would persecute God's saints. It would speak blasphemy it would come out of Rome it would think to change time it would think to change law. So far we have one that has done a few of these things. Notice the second commandment isn't there. Remember my emphasis on paganism? Which commandment is missing? The one that says thou shalt not bow down and worship images. Friend what did pagan Rome do? They worshipped images. What does papal Rome do? They have saints that they pray to. Now friend. This is not an attack on people. I love the people. But confusion and error is what I am trying to clear up. Prophecy came down from heaven Jesus said in vain do they worship me teach as doctrine the commandments of men. Matthew 15:9 doctrine is defined as a belief or set of beliefs held or taught by a church or political party look it up in your own dictionary. Do you hold the belief system thought by anyone else but Jesus or the Bible patriarchs, prophets or apostles? Jesus talks about people of faith coming to Him on the day of judgement and he will tell them depart from me ye that work iniquity for I never knew ye. Matthew 7:23 these were miracle workers, preachers, healers. Iniquity is the worst type of sin. It's when you know to do right but you don't do it. Friend the Bible has been presented. In the time of ignorance God winks. You said you wanted Bible not commentary. You've been presented with history. I said I wasn't going to give you quotes from the source but I feel moved by the spirit of God almighty to quote history and you can look it up I will give references. Go to your local library. I've given you history. Let the Bible speak. Many sheep I have that are not in this fold says the Lord. This is a time prophecy. This is how we know the Bible is for sure the word of God. The Bible is 33 percent prophecy. The writings of Muhammad contain no prophecy. The writings of Buddha contain no prophecy. The Bible is 1/3 prophecy. God raised a movement in the last days to understand prophecy and the Bible. I followed the teachings of the little horn power most of my life. I too was a Protestant by name but not doctrine. Now I teach and believe the doctrine of Jesus. The Bible says in the rest of verse 25 of Daniel 7 that the saints would be given in his hand speaking of the little horn for times time and a half of time. Well my bible scholars we know prophetically that three and a half times here are talking about three and a half lunar years using the same methodology as we use in the 70 week prophecy found in Daniel. Now that's 360 days each lunar year. They calculate to 1260 actual days. Now when it comes to prophecy and the Bible in general line must be upon line and precept upon precept right. Let me show you how amazing this is. The same time period is mentioned in Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Okay. Now let's see if the calculations are actuate. Does it really represent 3 1/2 lunar years adding up to 1260 days. Look at Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. In the Bible over and over again a woman is represented as a church. Jesus is the bridegroom coming for his bride right? Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27 but the Bible talks about an apostate church it even calls her a harlot and a mother of harlots. Revelation 14:4; Ezekiel 16:15-58; 23:2:21; Hosea 2:5; 3:1 one more verse talking about this prophetic time period. Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. So we have a sure word or prophecy. This is Bible doctrine friend. I'm not sharing the commentary of anyone but Jesus. In love and true kindness. I hope you see this not as an attack on anything but error. Other sheep I have that are not of this fold Jesus said John 10:16 but He said then also must I bring and there will be one fold and one shepherd. Now this is key. When we are students of the Bible. We wonder why did God give us prophecies. Because he wanted to guide his people. You see he's calling all that would to his truth. Ezekiel has a link to understanding prophecy. Ezekiel 4:6 “And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.” Okay so we know when we are talking about prophecy we have a day for a year principle. We're. It talking about 1260 literal days but 1260 prophetic years. This little horn power will persecute God's saints for 1260 literal years. Let's test the word of God. No commentary. Now a judgment that demands a verdict. 1) It came to power among the ten divisions of Europe (ten horns) (Daniel 7:8) (Yes Papal Rome did do that) 2) It came to power after A.D. 476 because the "little horn" succeeded pagan Rome, which fell in that year (Daniel 7:7,8) ("Vigilius...ascended the papal chair (538 A.D.) under the military protection of Belisarius." History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 327) 3) It began as a little horn as a little power at its beginning (Daniel 7:8) (notice this one had eyes and a mouth like a man. It had a man at its head) 4) It uprooted three horns. (Daniel 7:8,24) (History, Science and prophecy all point to in the beginning God created. Look at history. This little horn uprooted the Heruli they are extinct now so are the Vandals that's where we get Vandalism from and we longer have the Ostrogoths. 5) Again a man would be at its head (Daniel 7:8 also look at 2 Thessalonians 2:3) 6) It is different from the others. (Daniel 7:24) (They were all political powers. State powers only. This is a church state power. They mixed church and state together. 7) The little horn would speak pompous words those words of blasphemy. They would say they had the power to forgive men of their sins and also put themselves in the place of God. (The Pope is supposed to be the Vicar of Christ on earth that means he is Christ on earth. He's saying He's God. Blasphemy. The Vatican released we all know that good Catholic Christians whole heartedly believe that they need to go to a catholic priest to confess their sins. Not knowing they are carrying every sin they ever committed to this day unless they took it to Jesus because He alone can forgive them. I say this with Love. That's blasphemy.) (Again those verses were Matthew 9:2-6 and John 10:33) 8) The little horn would wear out and kill many of God's children. (Daniel 7:25) (I was went to Peru and seen one of the inquisition museums where they did some of the most awful killings of those who would not denounce the truth. During this 1260-year reign, the papal persecutions brought the death of millions. 9) The little horn antichrist would think to change times and law (Daniel 7:25) The Catholic Church notes the changes it made in it's catechism. You said you seen it friend and it was inaccurate. Friend please really look at it I seen what my Adventist friend posted that's the actual Statement from the Catholics converts catechism. If you knew what the founding fathers of the Protestant church went through so we could freely worship and know Jesus we would gladly study. Martin Luther believed this that's why he separated he just didn't have the prophecies. The Sabbath wasn't then revealed. You see paganism was indoctrinated into the Christian church it took a years for God to cleanse is Church but we are back to the teachings of the master. We don't teach purgatory because it's not biblical that's paganism. We don't teach the immortality of the soul because only God is immortal 1 Timothy 6:16 but we will be changed one day and we will put on immortality 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 those truths God revealed a little at a time. But Martin Luther knew we were saved by Grace. I'm a Lutheran just like the baptist were studying and knew we needed to be baptized by immersion not sprinkling. I'm a baptist see I get baptized by immersion. But I reject all of the extra biblical pagan doctrines of men. God intended of these movements to follow him Lutheran would not be a Lutheran today I tell you that. When God called the Baptist Martin Luther would have been a Baptist. Catholics call themselves the mother church. They don't mind telling you that Protestants follow their doctrines. Talk to a priest I have. Many ministers from my church sit down with priest all the time and discuss this thing. We have no problem with Catholics we love Catholic people. It's error that I am against. It moved the second commandment that forbids idolatry and changed the fourth commandment requiring worship on the seventh day of the week. Then divided the last commandment in two to complete the set to make it a full set of ten.) 10) The little horn power would rule "for a time and times and a half a time" -elsewhere presented in the Bible as 1260 days or forty-two months of prophetic time. We know that is 1260 literal years. What would happen at the end of these 1260 prophetic years Revelation 13:3 says the beast would get a deadly wound let's test the word of God. Friend Gods word never fails. Is the Papacy this little horn power? It took its seat in 538 A.D. Let's add 1260 years we pass the age of Daniel pass the age off pagan Rome and our Lord Jesus' early ministry. We end up at the year 1798. Did anything unique happen to any of the popes in the year 1798. To fulfill this prophecy the beast would need to recover a deadly wound and stop its supreme reign on the earth. YeS IT DID! On February 10th Napoleon Bonaparte in that EXACT year 1798 A.D. sent his General Louis Alexandre Berthier, with his armyinto Rome, Italy. It is recorded... "In 1798 General Berthier made his entrance into Rome, abolished the papal government, and established a secular one. Now we know just like the Bible said that the wound is healed. We have the Vatican. But the Bible says the whole world will one day wonder after the beast. For the first time in history the pope is addressing American congress. He said on Vatican radio not long ago that we need a national Sunday law. We have what we call Sunday blue laws in America today that's laws that are not enforced. What about “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:18‬. The verse starts out by saying here is what here is wisdom. Count the number of the beast we know that it's talking about the little horn it's the number of a man it says. It adds up to 666. The title of the man that it's at the head of this power. People say it's Barack Obama he doesn't fit the identify marks in Daniel 7 does he? Did he think to change times and laws? God's times and laws? Persecute the saints for 1260 years from 538 A.D. - 1798 A.D. Rise from Europe receive a deadly mark speak blasphemy is a a religious and political power uproot three of the other horns and all the other identifying marks? No one else fits. No one else proudly admits these claims. Let's take his title if you look at pictures of the pope there is a huge hat he wears or wore with these Latin words Vicarius Filii Dei Vicarius literally means substituting for or in place of Filii literally means Son Dei means GOD so his title means in the place of the Son of God. Remember I said he claims to be Jesus. That's where I get it from. The title is actually else where other than the hat. But using the Roman numeral. Here is knowledge. Given by God glory to Him. V=5 I=1 C=100 A=0 R=0 I=1 U=5 S=0 (112) F=0 I=1 L=50 I=1 I=1 (53) D=500 E=0 I=1 (501) 112+53+501=666 The word of God never fails. That's not commentary. That's the word of God. My church doesn't teach doctrine doctrine to hurt people friend but to bring people to Jesus whom they love. Each and every person is on this forum because they are drawn by the Holy Spirit even if they are trolling. The word anti in your strongs dictionary word 473 is a Greek word to denote substation so it means to be a subscription do Christ in stead of someone who is against Christ. Do you love Jesus enough to keep his commandments? If God could change His law why would He send His Son to die because of the law that was broken? God doesn't change. The devil has always wanted to change Gods law he's using the Vatican now right now your seeing a prophecy maybe for the first time. Papal Rome unapologetically, unashamedly, unabashedly thought to change times and law attempted to paganize Christianity. To substitute man who is mortal for Messiah for Christ who was always with Jehovah the one who died and bled for my sins. So I will unapologetically, unashamedly and unabashedly spread the unadulterated gospel of Jesus. Sunday is not the Lord's day friend the beautiful prophecy of Daniel warned us of this little horns attempt before you and I were thought of.

“Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The hour of His judgment has come notice this is a last day message and its calling us back to creation back to the Ten Commandments significantly back to the lost one the 4th commandment that's a quote from the 4th commandment. "Worship him that made the heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountain of waters."

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

“And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Friend spiritual Babylon what we know as papal Rome or the little horn power and all of the churches that are indoctrinated are fallen. Sunday sacredness has fallen the mortality of the soul has fallen.

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Here is the patience of the saints. Look at their characteristics they keep the commandments of God. The ones given by Jehovah not Rome. The ones kept my Adam and Eve and the prophets The Israelites the Christian Jews and Gentiles alike. They also have the faith of Jesus. The same faith the apostles had the unadulterated faith. Babylon has fallen. There will be so many Catholics in the last days who will hear the words well done thou good and faithful servant. Do you know who I'm sure of that. Do you know how many Catholic Christians there are in the world today that love Jesus. The Christian world is predominately Catholic. But in the last days these days they will have to leave Babylon in order to hear those words so will you and will will never be able to leave my Jesus and return to Babylon or will will hear depart from me ye who work iniquity those dreadful words I never want my master my precious savior to say to me for I love Him so. I hope you see from the Bible that Jesus has one fold and the Bible calls it a remnant.

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But let's read what verse 4 says it identify a these special chosen remnant then what don't they do

“But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God has a people who will refuse to bow down to Baal. Just like the three Hebrew boys in Daniel chapter 3. When King Nebuchadnezzar made the golden image indicating Babylon would reign forever I will not bow down to Baal because I know Babylon will fall it will fall but the Lord ask a question to all who reads his Holy word.

“And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.”
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭18:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The devil is angry at the woman the church and wants to make war with the remnant of her seed look at that there is still some left. It is identical to that which was in the apostolic time. They have to teach the same unadulterated teachings. They believe the same things Jesus taught. Worshipped the same day. They were Sabbatarians they knew only God has immortality they had the gift of Prophetic knowledge. The were always keepers of the law. God spoke the law directly to Adam and Eve in the garden the Israelites had to have it written for them in stone now it's written in our hearts. Hebrews 10:16

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬
First of all, you cannot change the fact that Catholics has always maintained that Sabbath and Sunday are different days. The rest of your post is a nuclear options that I will not read.
Why not make your responses short and relative to the post you've dug up?
 
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Thebiblealone

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Yes, It's been 5yrs. I'm still looking for biblical truths from SDA. I'm sorry to report my finding is, that so-called Adventist truths are manufactured and not facts from scriptures. We've been through the loops with what these text references supposed to imply. Obviously you're talking about the Sabbath commandment. Explain why God would make Sabbath a covenant between Him and the Children of Israel and not the world? You cant deny that God made circumcision and Passover for the Children of Israel and not the world. If you can prove that God gave Sabbath for the world and not just the Children of Israel then there's scriptural evidence that God lied. Sad to say that you've cleared up nothing at all.

If righteousness without the law was written in the law and the prophets, "Lucy you've got some splaining to do."
Rom 3:21 ¶But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Same old commentary arguments... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Same old no proof arguments.

That may work for you, but you've have not settled even 1 issue.
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I'm going to start with scripture friend. I am not your problem the Seventh-Day Adventist church is not your problem. I am a friend not a foe. Listen to what a question that is asked in scripture.

“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3‬ ‭KJV‬

Paul was talking to the Jews that knew the truth! He said how can we escape if we not reject but NEGLECT so great salvation. Let me break it down. If we neglect the knowledge that we have friend.

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You have to have a love for the truth! How does God send them this delusion? He simply withdraws the light and leaves them into darkness. Don't reject knowledge. I left a very large quote on another post of yours about Daniel 7 explaining in detail a prophecy in the Bible giving eons ago telling of the change of laws dealing with Ten Commandments one specifically dealing with time!

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don't know why it got deleted or why you didn't respond to that one.

“And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Bible says it was made for "man" not Jew friend.

“Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭26:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What commandments do you think he kept? Was Abraham a Jew?

“And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Was there a Jew in Eden? God blessed the Seventh and set it a part for a Holy use that's called sanctification. People that keep the first day they say it's because Jesus rose one that day and it's in honor of his resurrection but that's why we keep communion also there is no scripture for that. Logic isn't with you either friend you don't keep the day Holy do you?

“But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭15:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Second I don't know what your second agreement is referring to please elaborate? It has nothing to do with me statement does it? Jesus said nothing from the law would pass way I believe Jesus don't you?

Question what other commandments aren't you keeping?

So it's a commentary argument that the Ten Commandments weren't abolished at the cross? Okay I accept the challenge.

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

People get stuck on Paul's writings get said we don't make void of God's law. What people have a problem with is God's Sabbath not the other 9.

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Someone will think to change times and law. There is a church who has taken away the second commandment that commands men (mankind) and the only one dealing with time the Sabbath. Look in their Bible it's there.

“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So what about

“Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As you can see I'm a student of the scripture by the grave of the Most High.

Because

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So let me explain.

Who wrote the Ten Commandments?

God it was not handwritten and it was not against us or contrary to us. It was inside the ark which angels guarded.

“Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26‬ ‭KJV‬

Okay for the sake of space I won't quote every verse but Moses wrote the ceremonial law which had annual Sabbaths and all the sacrifices which we know we're done away with it was "against thee"

Second part what meat or drink is it referring to? Of course those mentioned in the ceremonial laws. Paul still kept those laws you present yourself as a Bible student so you should know that. So he was telling the Gentiles that they don't need to do so. Because the Pharacees that converted to Christianity wanted the Gentile converts to keep those customs because many were holding onto there heathen ways. So by embracing the Jewish customs they would embrace what they thought the covenant not know that it was a heart change they needed.

“I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭2:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But that's proof a prophecy that the feast days the annual sabbaths were going to CEASE! One day be abolished. Those were a shadow. Always notice they are plural because there were many of them. There was a name for two days in the Bible the Sabbath and the preparation for the Sabbath. The day you observe was given. A title was never made Holy. The name given is a Pagan one for a Pagan god.

Same old no proof arguments? I think I answered that.. I think I want your scripture evidence as to why you believe what you believe. Give me a text from the Bible and the Bible alone showing me Jesus worshipping on the first day resting on the first day or commanding the change. Or the apostles friend.

I haven't settled any issues? You keep saying Adventist use no scripture. I have brought much each time but your reply was with one text that was not even relevant. Friend Jesus is our example.
 
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Thebiblealone

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First of all, you cannot change the fact that Catholics has always maintained that Sabbath and Sunday are different days. The rest of your post is a nuclear options that I will not read.
Why not make your responses short and relative to the post you've dug up?

Friend in confused. First your friends in the Seventh-Day Adventist church don't provide enough scripture now we provide to much. You must understand I can't give you a short response when your demanding scripture details and what me to defend the Bible on a website. I'm going to defend the word of God. Read it or not it's the truth and it is backed up by history and the Word of the living God. You will not finds flaw or a hole in it. Maybe you should take the time to read it. I would like you to prove me wrong friend.

You present yourself as a Bible scholar at least a student of the word I admire that. The first step is a to be teachable and to put the Divine Author first. Jesus is whom I follow not a church.

I'm a student of the Bible I study our history very carefully the history of the persecution the authors of the Bible the Roman Catholic Church all of it. Tell me your denomination I'll probably know a bit about it. So I assure you the Catholic Church doesn't recognize the Sabbath. They know it's the day God ordained. But they believe in her power they changed the holiness from Sabbath to Sunday. Yes they call it the Lord's day just to seperate themselves from the Jews but that's historically. But the Lord's day is still Sabbath.

“Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Please give me scripture showing me why you believe what you believe. It's okay it can be long. If you believe the whole law is done away with show me. Just the fourth show me. It cannot contradict any other piece of scripture.

Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

"Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
 
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Thebiblealone

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Whew, folks sure are long winded tonight. Think I'll go to bed.

Let me know if anything is not Biblical. Goodnight.

I don't understand first there was much talk about how Adventist can't quote scripture now we use to much.

Goodnight friends. God be with you.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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