The wedding at Cana: Wine or grape juice?

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

seekingsolace said:
The burden of proof is not on my side friend.

Again, such a statement holds no real weight or meaning unless you can refute my 6 points in Scripture with your own Scripture verses. Otherwise it's merely a "great taste" vs. a "less filling" type debate that would be mindlessly unending.

....

katerinah1947 · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
I already addressed the point about Romans 14 to you before. Did you read it? Did you have ears to hear what I said in reply?

Nowhere am I obligated to read everyone's post. Nor do I always have the time to do so. But I did reply to you about Romans 14 if that is what you are talking about. Go back in the thread and check it out for yourself.

Yes, discussion is good most times, but even the apostles were told to shake the dust off their feet and move on if folks did not receive their message.

While Christian apologetics can be used for the glory of God by trying to show evidence that backs up God and His Word (that is not really what we are called to do). Most people are not ultimately convinced by evidence. For Jesus (By the power of the Father working in Him) had brought forth a miracle of providing many fish and lots of bread to a large crowd from a small amount. But yet, they were focused on the wrong miracle and were concerned with the physical instead of the spiritual. Jesus wanted them to know about the bread of life. Yet these people who were fed continued to follow him for the physical bread (and not the spiritual bread of life). So you might be impressed with the physical evidence, or science of this world that shows God; but God calls us to walk by faith and to stick that which is spiritual and to seek the spiritual things of God instead by studying His Word in prayer and obeying it. For we are to follow in Christ's footsteps and walk as He walked. For our pearl of great price or our treasure is Jesus Himself.

Side Note:

Also keep in my mind two things when you write to me. One, I do not agree with the Catholic religion and I only value what the Word of God says and not what some man's traditions say (This means that my opinion on your interpretation of the Word is not very high because I believe you break Scripture in many places). Two, if you write long posts that go on and on, chances are I may not always read them. This is not to say that it is wrong in any way. I create long posts myself all the time. There are times God talks to my heart not to reply to folks of other religions that I strong disagree with. For if they are going on and on about something that they are solidly convinced of in their own mind (Which is evident by the many words they write), then any reply on my behalf is not going to do them any good (For they are only seeking to see what they want to see).

....

Hi,

Wow again. I can walk away from almost any discussion with you and feel hurt. How, dare you claim that I do not know the Bible. How dare you. Yet, you have. You say essentially because I put Catholic there, all my views are not Biblical.

Protestant and Baptist and non Congregational Bible people listen to me, as I am that Biblical. You quote Scripture. I understand scripture. And you impune yet again someone by your lack of understanding, your lack of what looks like remorse.

You do not understand the scripture you quote, and yet you throw verse after verse here. And you have the audacity, to say that because the staff asked me to choose a moniker, The Roman Catholic Religion, that you who apparently understand little, want to tell me that it is I who do not know The Bible.

Okay. You have crossed the line with me. You are totally out of line.

LOVE, (My best remembrance is the way God actually loves, when He gave me that grace for awhile. Later, I was given more, vastly more than you can presently imagine, and yes Biblically.)
...Mary., .... .

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,

Wow again. I can walk away from almost any discussion with you and feel hurt. How, dare you claim that I do not know the Bible. How dare you. Yet, you have. You say essentially because I put Catholic there, all my views are not Biblical.

Protestant and Baptist and non Congregational Bible people listen to me, as I am that Biblical. You quote Scripture. I understand scripture. And you impune yet again someone by your lack of understanding, your lack of what looks like remorse.

You do not understand the scripture you quote, and yet you throw verse after verse here. And you have the audacity, to say that because the staff asked me to choose a moniker, The Roman Catholic Religion, that you who apparently understand little, want to tell me that it is I who do not know The Bible.

Okay. You have crossed the line with me. You are totally out of line.

LOVE, (My best remembrance is the way God actually loves, when He gave me that grace for awhile. Later, I was given more, vastly more than you can presently imagine, and yes Biblically.)
...Mary., .... .

I expressed what I believe in the most loving way I could. But I am not going to be baited to say the wrong thing that would get me banned.

Let's just say we have completely different views on what the Bible says on many things. Yes, we agree on some things like the Trinity, etc. But there are many more things I strongly disagree with in what you believe. It is not personal in any way. I have believed this for quite a long time now and was convinced by the Word of God and the revelation of the Spirit and not by anything else.

....

katerinah1947 · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
I expressed what I believe in the most loving way I could. But I am not going to be baited to say the wrong that would get me banned.

Let's just say we have completely different views on what the Bible says on many things. Yes, we agree on some things like the Trinity, etc. But there are many more things I strongly disagree with in what you believe. It is not personal in any way. I have believed this for quite a long time now and was convinced by the Word of God and the revelation of the Spirit and not by anything else.

....

Hi,

Even here, you hurt.

....But I am not goint to be baited....

You have briared me, yet again. You have accused me falsely of baiting you. Wow. And, yes that does hurt me.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,
Even here, you hurt.
For you, Jason0047 said,

" ....But I am not going to be baited...."

Maybe on subsconcious level you did so. I don't know. But what I do know is that you are most certainly are aware that people can get banned for saying the wrong thing here. Surely you should know that what you said could have easily pushed me into saying the wrong thing, no? So I do not see what you said as being completely innocent as you claim (Whether it was intentional on a consious level or not).

For would you be sorry if I was pushed to say the wrong thing by what you said and got banned because of it?

...

katerinah1947 · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Maybe on subsconcious level you did so. I don't know. But what I do know is that you are most certainly aware that people can get banned for saying the wrong thing here. Surely you should know that what you said could have pushed me into saying the wrong thing, no? So I do not see what you said as being completely innocent as you claim (Whether it was intentional on a consious level or not).

Hi,

No. Not even on a subconscience level. No.

OhMy, so now you are accusing my subconscience of baiting you and therefore, I am guilty of it, because my subconscince actually did.

The last time that was used on me, would you like the details of who and what she is? I don't think you do.

I know what I did. I know what I meant, and there were zero baitings, and even here you are still being brairy.

Wow again. And that was just one, false accusation above.

You are still out of line. You are.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

Anyways, back to Jesus's miracle at the Wedding of Cana (Which is the actual thread topic): Here is another verse that folks should consider,

“But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.” ----(Isaiah 28:7-8).

More verses paint alcohol or strong drink in a bad light instead of in a good light. That should tell folks something.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,

No. Not even on a subconscience level. No.

OhMy, so now you are accusing my subconscience of baiting you and therefore, I am guilty of it, because my subconscince actually did.

The last time that was used on me, would you like the details of who and what she is? I don't think you do.

I know what I did. I know what I meant, and there were zero baitings, and even here you are still being brairy.

Wow again. And that was just one, false accusation above.

You are still out of line. You are.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Well, my apologies if you did not intentionally set out to bait me. But from where I stood, that is how it looked. Again, I apologize. It was not my intention to hurt you. I was calling it as I seen it. But please go back and re-read what you wrote. Are you saying that what you said in no way could have pushed me to say the wrong thing? That's kind of why I reacted the way I did (Whether it was your intention or not).

Anyways, may God's love and peace be unto you.
And please be well.

....

katerinah1947 · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Well, my apologies if you did not intentionally set out to bait me. But from where I stood, that is how it looked. Again, I apologize. It was not my intention to hurt you. I was calling it as I seen it. But please go back and re-read what you wrote. Are you saying that what you said in no way could have pushed me to say the wrong thing? That's kind of why I reacted the way I did (Whether it was your intention or not).

Anyways, may God's love and peace be unto you.
And please be well.

....

Hi,

You cannot accuse me here again. You cannot. You have.

Are you saying that what you said in now way could have pushed me to say the wrong thing?

What you have asked me above, is still an accusation, and a false one.

Realize that you are misjudging. That is what it is called, normally.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,

You cannot accuse me here again. You cannot. You have.

What you have asked me above, is still an accusation, and a false one.

Realize that you are misjudging. That is what it is called, normally.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Whatever you think I said, it was not to harm you in any way but to lead you to the truth in love. For asking you to examine what you had written is not an attempt to sling mud at you, but it is merely to show you how things looked from my perspective.

May God bless you.
And may you please be well.
I am moving on.
And it is my hope that you do so, too.

...

seekingsolace · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Whatever you think I said, it was not to harm you in any way but to lead you to the truth in love. For asking you to examine what you had written is not an attempt to sling mud at you, but it is merely to show you how things looked from my perspective.

May God bless you.
And may you please be well.
I am moving on.
And it is my hope that you do so, too.

You're digging yourself deeper into that hole.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

seekingsolace said:
You're digging yourself deeper into that hole.

I don't believe so. I don't think it is wrong or judgmental to ask someone to examine themselves. Paul even said for the Corinthians to examine themselves. It does not mean he was trying to hurt them in any way by saying such a thing. People see what they want to see. If people like alcohol (and they do not see it as being harmful), then they will see a defense of their use of alcohol in the Scriptures. The same holds true for the opposite wrong extreme of the spectrum, as well. For I have seen Prohibitionists who were so die hard to defend their position that they had twisted verses out of context to fit their viewpoint. One has to carefully examine both sides of the argument and look at what makes the most sense in light of the whole of Scripture, history, and the goodness of God.

But if people are just looking to defend alcohol because they want to be either right or they like to drink, and they are not open to considering the other side, then there is no real reason to discuss the issue or to debate it then.

....

seekingsolace · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
I don't believe so. I don't think it is wrong or judgmental to ask someone to examine themselves. Paul even said for the Corinthians to examine themselves. It does not mean he was trying to hurt them in any way by saying such a thing. People see what they want to see. If people like alcohol, then they will see a defense of their use of alcohol in the Scriptures. The same holds true for the opposite wrong extreme of the spectrum, as well. For I have seen Prohibitionists who were so die hard to defend their position that they had twisted verses out of context to fit their viewpoint. One has to carefully examine both sides of the argument and look at what makes the most sense in light of the whole of Scripture, history, and the goodness of God.

But if people are just looking to defend alcohol because they want to be either right or they like to drink, and they are not open to considering the other side, then there is no real reason to discuss the issue or to debate it then.

You were accusing her of being categorically wrong for her faith icon. I fail to see how that is not judgmental.

It is not a case of 'what makes the most sense' but the truth of Scripture. It doesn't always fit neatly into a little package of our notions. Like I said before, to what purpose is repeating the cycle of discussion when hundreds of threads have dealt with this conclusively. Use the search bar.

Also you shouldn't make assumptions as to the intent of posters. I expect the majority have done just as much, if not more studying of the Scriptures to reach their conclusion. It is presumptuous to assume otherwise.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 4, 2015

seekingsolace said:
You were accusing her of being categorically wrong for her faith icon. I fail to see how that is not judgmental.

It is not a case of 'what makes the most sense' but the truth of Scripture. It doesn't always fit neatly into a little package of our notions. Like I said before, to what purpose is repeating the cycle of discussion when hundreds of threads have dealt with this conclusively. Use the search bar.

Also you shouldn't make assumptions as to the intent of posters. I expect the majority have done just as much, if not more studying of the Scriptures to reach their conclusion. It is presumptuous to assume otherwise.

I did apologize for making the assumption. All I asked was that she objectively re-examine what she wrote. I am not expecting her to agree with my faith in God's Word. However, I cannot unlearn what I have been taught by the Spirit in regards to God's Word. I am willing to die for my faith and be persecuted for such faith. So folks have to convince me with the Word here and not by what they have experienced, or by some church tradition, or by some science experiment. or just because they said they did a study on this before (And I am just expected to take them at their word if I simply do a search on it myself). I need the Word of God right here and right now. No games. Because the Word is my final word of authority on all things spiritual and I take it very seriously.

...

prodromos · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
For if they are going on and on about something that they are solidly convinced of in their own mind (Which is evident by the many words they write), then any reply on my behalf is not going to do them any good (For they are only seeking to see what they want to see).

This sums up your own posts in a nutshell.

prodromos · Sep 4, 2015

Jason0047 said:
I expressed what I believe in the most loving way I could. But I am not going to be baited to say the wrong thing that would get me banned.

Speaking of baiting...

Jason0047 said:
(If you want to show that you are even remotely on the side of the truth of God's Word on this topic).

How do you expect the above statement to be taken?

Standing Up · Sep 4, 2015

All in all, I'd say the thread has run its course.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 5, 2015

6 people die every day in America due to alcohol poisoning. Another 28 people die as a result of drunk driving crashes. That is thousands of people dead each year because of a drug that people enjoy. Imagine the lives spared if people just said... no?

Bible Highlighter · Sep 5, 2015

Wine is a mocker. Strong drink is raging. It also bites like a serpent, too.

prodromos · Sep 5, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Wine is a mocker. Strong drink is raging. It also bites like a serpent, too.

I had some last night with my evening meal. It neither mocked me, nor was it raging, and it didn't bite. Could it be that those verses are referring to the abuse of alcohol?

The wedding at Cana: Wine or grape juice?

Regarding the miracle at Cana, did Jesus turn water into wine or grape juice?

water into wine

water into grape juice

I don't know

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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