Conservatives and refugees.

RaylightI

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Lately the news are full of stories of refugees that either died on their road to safety, or got to the ending point. Today the news are about 71 Syrian refugee that are found dead in a truck, among them 4 children. It is a human tragedy, there is no doubt about it.

I used to be Liberal, until I learned more about Liberalism and Conservatives, and realized that the latter is more rational and closer to Christian values than the former, hence, I consider myself Conservatives. However, when it comes to certain humanitarian matters, I tend to think that Conservatives are less passionate than Liberals. I may be wrong, and this is why I'm writing this thread.

Some people may have mercy on Christian refugees only, and consider non-Christian refugees (especially Muslims) as a threat and must be refused any help. Other people may refuse helping any refugee regardless.

Is it true that Conservative Christians are less understanding and more judgmental when it comes to the refugees that are in need for help ? What is the Conservative Christian attitude toward the human tragedy that is being unfold regarding the refugees ?
 

Albion

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Lately the news are full of stories of refugees that either died on their road to safety, or got to the ending point. Today the news are about 71 Syrian refugee that are found dead in a truck, among them 4 children. It is a human tragedy, there is no doubt about it.

I used to be Liberal, until I learned more about Liberalism and Conservatives, and realized that the latter is more rational and closer to Christian values than the former, hence, I consider myself Conservatives. However, when it comes to certain humanitarian matters, I tend to think that Conservatives are less passionate than Liberals. I may be wrong, and this is why I'm writing this thread.

Some people may have mercy on Christian refugees only, and consider non-Christian refugees (especially Muslims) as a threat and must be refused any help. Other people may refuse helping any refugee regardless.

Is it true that Conservative Christians are less understanding and more judgmental when it comes to the refugees that are in need for help ? What is the Conservative Christian attitude toward the human tragedy that is being unfold regarding the refugees ?

"Conservative Christianity" on this forum refers to traditional beliefs and practices. It's not a reference to political Conservatives who happen also to be Christians.

Therefore, I think the answer to your question is that there probably is little difference between traditionalist Christians and Christians holding to more innovative theologies.
 
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Job8

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What is the Conservative Christian attitude toward the human tragedy that is being unfold regarding the refugees ?
The conservative Christian attitude towards this tragedy is to hold people accountable for something that could have been stopped AT THE VERY BEGINNING. Whom should we hold responsible?

A. THOSE WHO ARE PERPETRATING ATROCITIES IN THE NAME OF RELIGION
B. THOSE WHO ARE DOING NOTHING TO STOP THE EVIL DOERS.

Every nation on earth could have contributed towards a concerted effort to destroy ISIS and all the radical Islamists who are attacking innocents without mercy. The United States should have provided the moral, economic, and military leadership to crush ISIS. Instead we have a POTUS who actually supports terrorists and terrorism, and is working night and day to give Iran even more resources to continue its evil deeds.

But we also have do-nothing Republican politicians who have been playing politics instead of taking this tragedy seriously. And then we have the Europeans and the United Nations who are all talk and no action. It is precisely because the whole world has bought into the lies of liberalism that no one has the courage or moral fortitude to stand up for what is right and just do it. There is no need for the existence of refugees if the evildoers are terminated with extreme prejudice.
 
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Sketcher

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Political liberals can be on either side of that issue.

I am both politically conservative, and theologically conservative. Personally, I think we should give preference to the Christian refugees and other minority refugees, if we're going to take anyone in from Iraq or Syria. They are in the most precarious position, and their populations are much less likely to sneak in terrorists, in my opinion.
 
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Job8

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Personally, I think we should give preference to the Christian refugees and other minority refugees, if we're going to take anyone in from Iraq or Syria. They are in the most precarious position, and their populations are much less likely to sneak in terrorists, in my opinion.
Sketcher,
Like probably most people you would prefer to address the symptoms of the "disease" rather than the "disease" itself. The disease is the unspeakable evil that is being perpetrated by evil people in the Middle East. For the past 8 years Barack Obama has maintained a policy of doing little or nothing to address evil and the evil doers. Indeed, he secretly has an agenda to foster as much unrest and terrorism in the world as possible, since he has done his utmost to give Iran every advantage, knowing full well that terrorism worldwide is being supported heavily by Iran. He has also done his utmost to foster lawlessness within the USA and create social and political unrest. That is all part of his Marxist-Socialist agenda.

At the same time the Europeans have stood by and watched the evil progressing day by day and done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This is all similar to Hitler and his Nazis perpetrating all kinds of atrocities throughout Europe while the world stood by and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If the evil doers were eliminated, there would be no refugee problem. But no, we want to talk about the poor refugees instead of those evil men who have created havoc and created refugees.
 
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Sketcher

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Sketcher,
Like probably most people you would prefer to address the symptoms of the "disease" rather than the "disease" itself. The disease is the unspeakable evil that is being perpetrated by evil people in the Middle East. For the past 8 years Barack Obama has maintained a policy of doing little or nothing to address evil and the evil doers. Indeed, he secretly has an agenda to foster as much unrest and terrorism in the world as possible, since he has done his utmost to give Iran every advantage, knowing full well that terrorism worldwide is being supported heavily by Iran. He has also done his utmost to foster lawlessness within the USA and create social and political unrest. That is all part of his Marxist-Socialist agenda.

At the same time the Europeans have stood by and watched the evil progressing day by day and done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This is all similar to Hitler and his Nazis perpetrating all kinds of atrocities throughout Europe while the world stood by and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If the evil doers were eliminated, there would be no refugee problem. But no, we want to talk about the poor refugees instead of those evil men who have created havoc and created refugees.
If the disease itself is the evil that is being perpetrated by evil people in the Middle East, and if eliminating the disease is the goal, then there are some points to consider.

The evil that is being perpetuated isn't just the sacking of villages, the killing of men and boys, and the enslavement and rape of women. It's the second-tier status of many Christians. You can't openly and freely preach Christianity and distribute Scripture in most places of that region. In Saudi Arabia, you cannot go to church at all, even if you are a foreigner. In Egypt, the kidnapping of Christians and swordpoint conversions have actually been a matter of debate in recent years. And there are many Muslims who might not be involved with Al Qaida or ISIS or similar groups, but who are notionally OK with this. So the war criminals of ISIS do not have a complete monopoly on the evil of the region. But if even we just reduce this back to the militants themselves for a second, they are connected to other people by tribal affiliation, and by religion. There are blood feuds that are years old, perhaps decades old, and perhaps centuries old, that cause Muslims to kill other Muslims. And while interpretations of Islam vary, there are many Muslims who are not militants, Islam is a very paranoid religion and way of thinking. The Rashidun Caliphate's wars of conquest were claimed to be defensive, after all. What this looks like today is the Muslims who are being radicalized perceive attacks on Muslim communities by non-Muslims as attacks on Islam itself. An example of this is when America went into Iraq in 2002, Al Qaida was able to exploit that, increase support and recruitment, and move their terrorists into the country. Hence, attacks on radicals have been shown to bring non-radicals to radicalization.

What all that means is that if you are going to wipe out evil Muslims on their home territory, more Muslims will be drawn into the fight for reasons of faith, and other members of the tribe will be drawn into the fight to avenge their dead tribesman. Therefore, killing them piecemeal will not be an effective solution - you have to kill on the scale of millions. It helps to do that as quickly as possible to avoid a drawn-out campaign that saps more and more human and material resources. And on that scale, it is not possible to ensure that the Christians and Jews and Yazidis and Druze and whatever other minorities will not also be victims of that destruction. If we want them to even have a chance, they should be evacuated from the kill zone first. Then you're free to drop as many conventional, biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons as you please without defeating what I assume is the purpose of the whole crusade to begin with. Oil prices would skyrocket of course, for how long depends on what kind of ordinance is dropped on the oil-rich areas. And assuming you do not mind exposing Western troops to fallout, viruses, or deadly chemicals, you can just have them wipe out what's left. Germany experimented with efficient means of doing so during Operation Barbarossa; they found that the Einsatzgruppen (units deployed to clear newly conquered areas of undesirables) had serious morale problems and it was just more efficient to stuff their victims into trains and send them to camps where they could be worked to death or gassed.

So if a human ruler or coalition of rulers had the power, resources, and will to complete all this, how could history look upon them as moral? If this were to be done in the name of Christianity, how would murder on this scale not blacken the faith's reputation until Christ's coming? This would be a Crusade on steroids after all. And unbelievers still won't let the church live down any of the past Crusades, even though they were roughly a thousand years ago. Furthermore, how is it at all compatible with the Great Commission? Last I checked, our mandate was to lead them to repentance so that they could go to Heaven, not cut their lives off to ensure that they go to Hell.
 
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classicalhero

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There were no refugees when Assad was in control. But with the formation of ISIS, which could have easily stopped, this wouldn't be happening. Europe is raping the fact that they refuse to confront evil and now they will suffer for not doing what's right.
 
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Albion

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Is it true that Conservative Christians are less understanding and more judgmental when it comes to the refugees that are in need for help ?
No. Nor is it true that Conservative Christians are less understanding and more judgmental on other issues.

What is the Conservative Christian attitude toward the human tragedy that is being unfold regarding the refugees ?
There is no "party line" that all Conservative Christians are supposed to adhere to. For that matter, there is no one-size fits all when it comes to what makes anyone a Conservative Christian in the first place. Some are Catholics, others Protestants, and some probably fit in somewhere else.
 
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Norm d'Plume

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Very good answers. Thanks for the reply. I agree that the world should have done more before the situation got to this point.
Two questions:
Are we willing to send our sons and daughters overseas to fight every war coming from that region?
What would Jesus do?

I'd rather deal with the refugees and let the idiot dictators and terrorists fight endlessly over their precious land and oil until they've blown each other to Hell. It costs far less to provide blankets, food, and water to millions of people than it does to start another war ($2+ trillion for the war in Iraq and up to 1M Iraqi dead). That's roughly $7K per American to have fought that one war. I'd rather give it to the Red Cross.

If we stayed out of other people's business, maybe they'd stay out of ours. When was the last time anyone carried out a terrorist attack against Canada or Sweden? Angela Merkel of Germany deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for her willingness to take in almost 1 million refugees, while the U.S. is taking 10,000.

Merkel, in my opinion, is doing what Jesus would have done.
 
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4thWatch

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Two questions:
Are we willing to send our sons and daughters overseas to fight every war coming from that region?
What would Jesus do?

I'd rather deal with the refugees and let the idiot dictators and terrorists fight endlessly over their precious land and oil until they've blown each other to Hell. It costs far less to provide blankets, food, and water to millions of people than it does to start another war ($2+ trillion for the war in Iraq and up to 1M Iraqi dead). That's roughly $7K per American to have fought that one war. I'd rather give it to the Red Cross.

If we stayed out of other people's business, maybe they'd stay out of ours. When was the last time anyone carried out a terrorist attack against Canada or Sweden? Angela Merkel of Germany deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for her willingness to take in almost 1 million refugees, while the U.S. is taking 10,000.

Merkel, in my opinion, is doing what Jesus would have done.

The 2014 attack against the Canadian parliament was carried out by a Muslim "refugee" and as we speak the Muslim "refugees" in Germany are acting so horribly that the military has been activated and internment camps are being built.

You haven't ever really dealt with Muslims have you....you see they aren't killing eachother and everyone else over oil. They started killing eachother over which sect of Islam they belong to, either Sunni or Shiite. They decided that Jews and Christians should be killed to along with Buddhists and Hindus.

Islam is not a religion, it's a militant cult driven by a political system (sharia law). Let's address the "refugees" directly. Thousands of Kurdish woman have taken up weapons to fight for their people, yet Syrian men who look quite able bodied are fleeing to the west and demanding To be taken care of and the whole time they are seeking refuge they are still militant about Islam.
 
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Armoured

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The conservative Christian attitude towards this tragedy is to hold people accountable for something that could have been stopped AT THE VERY BEGINNING. Whom should we hold responsible?

A. THOSE WHO ARE PERPETRATING ATROCITIES IN THE NAME OF RELIGION
B. THOSE WHO ARE DOING NOTHING TO STOP THE EVIL DOERS.

Every nation on earth could have contributed towards a concerted effort to destroy ISIS and all the radical Islamists who are attacking innocents without mercy. The United States should have provided the moral, economic, and military leadership to crush ISIS. Instead we have a POTUS who actually supports terrorists and terrorism, and is working night and day to give Iran even more resources to continue its evil deeds.

But we also have do-nothing Republican politicians who have been playing politics instead of taking this tragedy seriously. And then we have the Europeans and the United Nations who are all talk and no action. It is precisely because the whole world has bought into the lies of liberalism that no one has the courage or moral fortitude to stand up for what is right and just do it. There is no need for the existence of refugees if the evildoers are terminated with extreme prejudice.
That's great hindsight an all, but doesn't really offer much of an answer to the current refugee problem, does it?
 
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Job8

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That's great hindsight an all, but doesn't really offer much of an answer to the current refugee problem, does it?
It is not "the current refugee problem". It is THE CURRENT ISLAMIC INVASION of the West in order to destroy it from within and establish Sharia Law.

The solution? (1) Destroy ISIS; (2) Eliminate Assad; (3) Demand that Saudi Arabia and the obscenely wealthy Gulf States take in all their own Muslim brothers and shelter them; (4) Seal all Western borders against any Muslim immigration.

Is there any politician in the West who has the courage and the capability to accomplish this by bringing all western nations together for this purpose? NO.
 
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Albion

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It is not "the current refugee problem". It is THE CURRENT ISLAMIC INVASION of the West in order to destroy it from within and establish Sharia Law.

The solution? (1) Destroy ISIS; (2) Eliminate Assad; (3) Demand that Saudi Arabia and the obscenely wealthy Gulf States take in all their own Muslim brothers and shelter them; (4) Seal all Western borders against any Muslim immigration.

From what's been reported in the news recently, Saudi Arabia has set up facilities for a large number of refugees, but no one's taking advantage of that--which shows that we're not talking about refugees in the usual sense, but people who have other intentions. That's not so say that all are terrorists, but it suggests that what many have told the media is true--they want to be where they think they will get the most freebies or job opportunities (as well as safety, of course).
 
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Sketcher

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It is not "the current refugee problem". It is THE CURRENT ISLAMIC INVASION of the West in order to destroy it from within and establish Sharia Law.

The solution? (1) Destroy ISIS; (2) Eliminate Assad; (3) Demand that Saudi Arabia and the obscenely wealthy Gulf States take in all their own Muslim brothers and shelter them; (4) Seal all Western borders against any Muslim immigration.

Is there any politician in the West who has the courage and the capability to accomplish this by bringing all western nations together for this purpose? NO.
Who fills the power vacuum in Syria? And where does Russia play into all of this? Being as Islamic terror groups are also their enemies, it would be stupid to not have them on our side.
 
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Norm d'Plume

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Mother Teresa would be in those Muslim refugee camps in the Middle East (primarily Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey) providing aid to Muslims and Christians alike. Other Arab states make it virtually impossible to get in, hence the desperate attempts to get to Europe. The world community seems unwilling to shame/arm-twist those Arab states into solving a crisis in their own back yard. Heaven forbid we should endanger the flow of oil.

I wonder what Jesus would tell the U.S. (the world's most powerful and richest country) to do. Take in a mere 10,000 refugees? I don't think so. Perhaps if we had a more humanitarian approach to world affairs, we wouldn't be viewed as such a tempting target for terrorists over time. Would there be terrorist plotters among the refugees? Almost certainly. But we seem to have a sufficiently invasive government (e.g., NSA, FBI, Homeland Security, militarized police) looking out for and catching most terrorists. The Boston bombing is an unfortunate exception. I think Jesus would have found that risk acceptable and advocated doing what Angela Merkel did. The vast majority of Muslims simply want to live in peace and practice their faith, which happens to stem from the same prophet (Abraham) that Judaism and Christianity do.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

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I think conservative Christians do not want to colonize the nations they live in with adherents to an epistemologically false socio-religious political theocratic worldview that ordains human slavery, sex slavery, violence, etc... that reject western culture, refuse to assimilate, and ultimately seek to enforce a marred rule of law (e.g. sharia) while relegating all who reject the worldview itself as undesirable kafir.

They also are not happy with the empirical statistics surrounding Muslim immigrants (e.g. higher rates of welfare and unemployment, higher rates of rape and sexual grooming of children, higher rates of political violence).

They wish to see the countries of origin forced to undergo self-examination of their Islamic culture and values driving their own people to emigrate and change them for the better rather than act as codependents allowing Muslim nations to never change while the west itself is changed by a regressive false socio-religious political theocratic worldview.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

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They often state that while Jesus certainly interacted with everyone interpersonally (such as the case with the Canaanite woman Jesus met while traveling outside of Israel in the region of Tyre and Sidon), the analogy is whether or not Jesus would have supported or not supported the wholesale immigration of ancient Canaanite pagans from the ancient Canaanite pagan nations surrounding ancient Israel into Israel (in one or more old testament capacities which non-Jews were placed: ger, zar, or nekhar)... something which would be very unlikely.

Also noteworthy would be the religious legal considerations automatically placed upon those non-Jews that the ancient Israel authorities permitted to visit, pass through, or even reside in ancient Israel. Chief among them was that as far as religious life was concerned, with some exception, they were bound by the Mosaic Law in Judaism. For example, they were bound by the law which forbids leaven during the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Ex. 12:19), had to abstain from work on the Sabbath and on the Day of Atonement (Ex. 20:10; Lv. 16:29), shared the prohibitions on eating blood (Lv. 17:10, 13), immorality (Lv. 18:26), idolatry (Lv. 20:2), blasphemy (Lv. 24:16), etc...

It's true that the non-Jew who followed the Mosaic Law was virtually on a level with the Israelite (Lv. 24:22), and in Ezekiel’s vision of the Messianic age he is to share the inheritance of Israel (Ezk. 47:22–23); however, the non-Jew who dismissed Judaism, practiced their own religion, and advocated that their religion replace Judaism earned themselves a death sentence.

The conservative Christian would acknowledge that people are not under the old testament law as members of the old covenant community but would remind, as the apostle Paul reminds us regarding the events recorded in the OT: “Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction” (1 Cor. 10:11). Minimally one can look for the theological or moral principles behind the laws, and then apply them through the lens of NT doctrine.

To understand the viewpoint better, read 'The Immigration Crisis: Immigrants, Aliens, and the Bible Paperback' by Dr. James K. Hoffmeier.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that's not the response Jesus would have had.
 
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