Urghhh, Why Can't Jesus Save Everybody!!

zippy2 · Sep 4, 2015

Don't worry Chaela. Some folks get a little bit testy with the prospect of most everyone comin to the Lord in the end. There's alot can happen between cup and lip if you know what I mean. I think the possibility is breathtaking!!

Here...have a tootsy roll pop. :tutu:

zippy2 · Sep 4, 2015

Have the ladies in this thread ever noticed it is almost always women who can see this possibility? Strange, huh?

nb408 · Sep 4, 2015

zippy2 said:
Have the ladies in this thread ever noticed it is almost always women who can see this possibility? Strange, huh?

Interesting, but I definitely agree that it's a possibility and I'm not a woman

Gregory Thompson · Sep 4, 2015

Why Can't Jesus Save Everybody?

:o what? there's something that Jesus cannot do? I am shocked!

zippy2 · Sep 4, 2015

nb408 said:
Interesting, but I definitely agree that it's a possibility and I'm not a woman

Good for you! I stand corrected my brother.

2KnowHim · Sep 5, 2015

Job8 said:
That is a reference to one who is already saved. So it is completely out of context. Bottom line -- are you a Universalist, and if so which Scripture supports your position THAT ALL MEN WILL REPENT AND ALL WILL BE SAVED?

If it is a reference to someone who is already saved, then their works should be of Christ, and His works cannot be burned up now can they? And yes I most definitely believe in The Salvation of All mankind, and the scriptures are way to many to list. But if you truly want to know, then go to the Universal Salvation thread.

2KnowHim · Sep 5, 2015

Job8

2KnowHim said:
(Again I ask you, who does this scripture leave out)?

Rev_5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

sahjimira · Sep 5, 2015

Jesus described the types of soil the seed falls on. Some will harden their hearts, pride maybe or no love or desire for truth. Yes we do have free will and I would much rather come to
the Lord that way. I had a great desire for truth and was involved in many ungodly practices. Never dreamed I'd b a born again cChristian. God is good and a rewarder of those who seek Him

jugghead · Sep 5, 2015

I find it hard to believe that some people can have peace in their own mind thinking that even some of their own family members will be tormented forever,

if there will be no more tears or sorrow, God would have to make it as if those family members never existed in our lives at all or had any kind of influence on our lives while we were physically alive, God does not erase the past .... He brings us to understand how all things worked together for good.

Der Alte · Sep 5, 2015

jugghead said:
I find it hard to believe that some people can have peace in their own mind thinking that even some of their own family members will be tormented forever,

if there will be no more tears or sorrow, God would have to make it as if those family members never existed in our lives at all or had any kind of influence on our lives while we were physically alive, God does not erase the past .... He brings us to understand how all things worked together for good.

I am one of "some people" and us "some people" can only do so much to help their loved ones become believers. If a loved one winds up in a place other than in the presence of God it is not our, "some people," fault. Whether "some people" do or do have peace of mind does not influence the outcome. You are quoting scripture out-of-context"

Rev 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There won't be death anymore. There won't be any grief, crying, or pain, because the first things have disappeared."
...
Rev 21:7 The person who conquers will inherit these things. I will be his God, and he will be my son.
Rev 21:8 But people who are cowardly, unfaithful, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars will find themselves in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."

Note only three verses after "wipe every tear from their eyes" the same chapter says "The person who conquers will inherit these things." What things? Everything described in the immediately preceding verses. And in the very next verse "But people who are cowardly, etc. will find themselves in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death." The conjunction "but" connects the events in vs. 8 with the events in the preceding verses.

John 1:1 GodCZU · Sep 5, 2015

Everything is predestined by God's own design. His universal knowledge and wisdom governs all things. That there are wicked people in the world, unbelievers too, is evidence of that plan. If it weren't for the darkness how would those called to the light struggle to find their way to?
Not all people want to be saved. Consider contemporary society and the mockery of righteousness that goes on daily. Would those dedicated to that pursuit feel the call of God in their hearts? Those who die in their sins are the answer to that.
All happens as God wills.

Hillsage · Sep 5, 2015

Steeno7 said:
That’s a real nice and sweet sentiment, but that’s just not the way it works. Those who die still identified with Satan will share in Satan’s destiny. Just as those who die identified with Christ will share in Christ's destiny. There are no “second chances”.

Your "second chances" word is true, even if you don't truly understand what you're saying. With understanding, you'd know that you are simply denying those who never have had their 'first chance' in this age. You limit God's plan to your limited understanding of His "plan of the AGES". And according to Ephesians, several ages were yet to come.

The fire is eternal fire, not temporal. And their punishment is eternal punishment, not temporal. Matt. 25:41-46

Your scripture supports you, but only if you limit yourself to only believing in translations written by men who are more spiritually bound to doctrine than they are the laws of Greek and grammar. Many translations disagree with your Matt 25 litmus.

WHAT DO YOU DO WITH JUST THESE 3 ACCEPTED SCHOLARLY WORKS?

Concordant Literal Translation: 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham's translation: 25:46: And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.

Young's Literal Translation: MAT 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
BTW, Young was also the author of the very respected Young's Concordance of the bible.

Steeno7 · Sep 5, 2015

Hillsage said:
Your "second chances" word is true, even if you don't truly understand what you're saying. With understanding, you'd know that you are simply denying those who never have had their 'first chance' in this age. You limit God's plan to your limited understanding of His "plan of the AGES". And according to Ephesians, several ages were yet to come.

Your scripture supports you, but only if you limit yourself to only believing in translations written by men who are more spiritually bound to doctrine than they are the laws of Greek and grammar. Many translations disagree with your Matt 25 litmus.

WHAT DO YOU DO WITH JUST THESE 3 ACCEPTED SCHOLARLY WORKS?

Concordant Literal Translation: 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham's translation: 25:46: And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.

Young's Literal Translation: MAT 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
BTW, Young was also the author of the very respected Young's Concordance of the bible.

It's just wishful thinking based on faulty assumptions on your part, not understanding.

The truth about God is known to all. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God (Romans 1:19-20).

Is God so impotent that He is unable to reveal the truth to anyone, anywhere? John was given a glimpse of heaven, and what did he see? "People from every tribe and language and people from every nation" (Rev. 5:9).

Hillsage · Sep 5, 2015

Steeno7 said:
It's just wishful thinking based on faulty assumptions on your part, not understanding.

No, every point I made was based upon scripture. And you refute with......your opinion. Refute Ephesians "plan of the ages" and refute bible translations that have been around a long time. Then you might agree with me as to who has wishful thinking.

God has put this knowledge in their hearts.

But he has not given them eyes to see this 'knowledge', so to them it is still veiled.

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

To them repentance has not been granted.
2 Timothy 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,

To them the gift of faith has not yet been given. Because God has not yet called them.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word/RHEMA of God.

The "word" that saves isn't the logos preached by us, it's the living word of His mouth that we hear and respond to. No word from Him equals no hearing/seeing from you.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God (Romans 1:19-20).

You sound like those of old who think that knowing about "his creative acts" is equal to knowing Him and "his ways"....they are not.

Psalms 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.

Is God so impotent that He is unable to reveal the truth to anyone, anywhere?

No His hand is not that short...except in your theology.
Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

John was given a glimpse of heaven, and what did he see? "People from every tribe and language and people from every nation" (Rev. 5:9).

Well there you go then....a verse we both can agree on. BTW what view of the Revelation do you ascribe to? The Preterist, the Futurist, the Symbolist or the Historist? That might make an old 'saying' ring in this context....that 'saying' being; "The dumber someone is the sooner they run to the book of Revelation to prove their theology." ^_^

IOW I'm pretty sure you and I aren't looking at this scripture the same either.

Please don't forget to refute the scripture of my last post before bunny trailing on this one.

John 1:1 GodCZU · Sep 5, 2015

sahjimira said:
Jesus described the types of soil the seed falls on. Some will harden their hearts, pride maybe or no love or desire for truth. Yes we do have free will and I would much rather come to
the Lord that way. I had a great desire for truth and was involved in many ungodly practices. Never dreamed I'd b a born again cChristian. God is good and a rewarder of those who seek Him

Those are the right words there. Those who seek him.
You felt called even in your darkest practices to find your way out. That you found your way to Christ is an example of the seed that falls on good soil.
How is it that people argue Yeshua will save everyone. When Yeshua said no one comes to him unless the father sends them?
That difference between our belief in anyone and Yeshua's knowledge of no one else but, is all the difference in perception and truth.

Yeshua will save everyone.
Yes, he will. Those who come to him and are truly those whom the father called forth.
Many will say to Yeshua, Lord, Lord. But Yeshua never knew them.

Steeno7 · Sep 5, 2015

Hillsage said:
No, every point I made was based upon scripture. And you refute with......your opinion. Refute Ephesians "plan of the ages" and refute bible translations that have been around a long time. Then you might agree with me as to who has wishful thinking.

But he has not given them eyes to see this 'knowledge', so to them it is still veiled.

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

To them repentance has not been granted.
2 Timothy 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,

To them the gift of faith has not yet been given. Because God has not yet called them.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word/RHEMA of God.

The "word" that saves isn't the logos preached by us, it's the living word of His mouth that we hear and respond to. No word from Him equals no hearing/seeing from you.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

You sound like those of old who think that knowing about "his creative acts" is equal to knowing Him and "his ways"....they are not.

Psalms 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.

No His hand is not that short...except in your theology.
Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

Well there you go then....a verse we both can agree on. BTW what view of the Revelation do you ascribe to? The Preterist, the Futurist, the Symbolist or the Historist? That might make an old 'saying' ring in this context....that 'saying' being; "The dumber someone is the sooner they run to the book of Revelation to prove their theology." IOW I'm pretty sure you and I aren't looking at this scripture the same either.

Please don't forget to refute the scripture of my last post before bunny trailing on this one.

Well that was a long way to get nowhere.

Hillsage · Sep 5, 2015

John 1:1 GodCZU said:
Those are the right words there. Those who seek him.

When one understands that a 'lost' sheep doesn't 'find' the shepherd, their theology must seek depths they have not yet plumbed concerning the salvation of 'knowing' the spirit versus the soul.

Many will say to Yeshua, Lord, Lord. But Yeshua never knew them.

John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

John 1:1 GodCZU · Sep 5, 2015

Hillsage said:
When one understands that a 'lost' sheep doesn't 'find' the shepherd, their theology must seek depths they have not yet plumbed concerning the salvation of 'knowing' the spirit versus the soul.

Know anything about sheep? Actual sheep so that the metaphor presents itself?

John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

What is that scripture telling you?

Rajni · Sep 5, 2015

John 1:1 GodCZU said:
Those are the right words there. Those who seek him

“there is no one who understands; there is no one
who seeks God.” (Romans 3:11)

The Good Shepherd doesn’t sit around waiting for
the lost sheep to find Him, He goes and looks for
them, and doesn't stop until He finds them.

-

John 1:1 GodCZU · Sep 5, 2015

I think John 10 is a great chapter to read too.

Urghhh, Why Can't Jesus Save Everybody!!

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