Need help with theology question.

patdude832

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I am new to this forum and generally new to faith in Christ. I have been hooked up to a pastor that has views I don't know are biblical or not. According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough. He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues. I have tried so hard to do such, but in the end I always end up feeling like a failure. Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?
 
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RC1970

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I am new to this forum and generally new to faith in Christ. I have been hooked up to a pastor that has views I don't know are biblical or not. According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough. He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues. I have tried so hard to do such, but in the end I always end up feeling like a failure. Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?

You can absolutely be saved without speaking in tongues. Most denominations teach that tongue speaking ceased in the First Century. I think you should seriously consider finding a new Church.

Read this: WHEN TONGUES CEASED[URL="http://"][/URL]
 
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Korah

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You have stumbled into a heretical church, probably the notorious oneness United Pentecostal Church. (They deny the Nicene Creed, say the Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are all one in essence and person.)
I myself speak in tongues, which is nice as an indication of having been baptized in the Spirit. However, to pretend to require this in a new believer is false and induces prospective members to lie or fool themselves like some gibberish can pass as speaking in tongues.
By the way, genuine Pentecostal or charismatic prayer groups or churches will properly educate believers between prayer-tongues (for the individual in praying to God) and speaking in tongues, which is said aloud and subject to the interpretation of tongues. Then there is also a higher level of prophecy in tongues.
 
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Cappadocious

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Dialogist

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I am new to this forum and generally new to faith in Christ. I have been hooked up to a pastor that has views I don't know are biblical or not. According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough. He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues. I have tried so hard to do such, but in the end I always end up feeling like a failure. Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?

The pastor you have been hooked up with would seem to be a nut.
 
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Korah

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The pastor you have been hooked up with would seem to be a nut.
No, not a nut, he was probably raised a United Pentecostal. It split off from the other Pentecostals in 1917. By the Nicene Creed rule, they're not Christians, but by practical observation anybody raised in a religion is likely to stay in it (if he stays at all, that is). It's just human nature, whether Christians, sort-of Christians, or not-Christians.
 
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StephanieSomer

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I am new to this forum and generally new to faith in Christ. I have been hooked up to a pastor that has views I don't know are biblical or not. According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough. He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues. I have tried so hard to do such, but in the end I always end up feeling like a failure. Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?

I speak in tongues, fairly regularly, in my own prayer life. It's a wonderful gift, which I wouldn't trade for the world. But if anyone ever tells you that it is a requirement for salvation, go elsewhere. It isn't.
 
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Winken

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Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?

Yes. Without question. In fact, you already are. What he is telling you is not scriptural. Find another place to worship where tongues, word-faith, "you can have what you say," is not part of the service.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I am new to this forum and generally new to faith in Christ. I have been hooked up to a pastor that has views I don't know are biblical or not. According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough. He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues. I have tried so hard to do such, but in the end I always end up feeling like a failure. Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?
Welcome to CF! And we're glad to see you in TT! :)

A lot could be said, and has been touched on by others here. But the simple answer to your question is that there is absolutely no reason to expect believers to "speak in tongues" in order to "prove" their salvation. Such a requirement very often leads to people feeling such pressure to conform that they end up either faking it and copying what everyone else is doing so that others will accept them as being "true Christians", or they sometimes even fool themselves in their desperation to be saved, sometimes by allowing themselves to fall into a sort of ecstatic state which results in characteristic vocalizations.

There ARE many amazing things the Holy Spirit can and does do in believers, levels and kinds of prayer, and so on, but having this kind of expectation in order to "prove" oneself a true believer is never healthy, and is not Biblical, no.

And others are correct - most pastors who insist with such terms are UPC/Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals, and they deny the Trinity, which is a basic Christian belief. Much heresy begins to flow from such an unsound base. It is not a safe place to be.
 
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Korah

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What rule are you referring to?
Christian Forum rules. One is not allowed to post in the main Theology and Edification sections unless your church is not Oneness but instead Trinitarian (Nicene Creed). patdude would be allowed in Faith Group user groups even if not confessing the Nicene Creed in the SpiritFilled / Charismatic group--but notice the strict rules on politeness and respect for televangelists. I suggest he read this thread therein:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...else-apostate-or-is-that-another-lie.7749266/
There are some special rules regarding some thereby "non-Christian" denominations such as Mormons and JWs, but these do not apply to him (currently, anyway).
 
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All4Christ

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Welcome to CF! And we're glad to see you in TT! :)

A lot could be said, and has been touched on by others here. But the simple answer to your question is that there is absolutely no reason to expect believers to "speak in tongues" in order to "prove" their salvation. Such a requirement very often leads to people feeling such pressure to conform that they end up either faking it and copying what everyone else is doing so that others will accept them as being "true Christians", or they sometimes even fool themselves in their desperation to be saved, sometimes by allowing themselves to fall into a sort of ecstatic state which results in characteristic vocalizations.

There ARE many amazing things the Holy Spirit can and does do in believers, levels and kinds of prayer, and so on, but having this kind of expectation in order to "prove" oneself a true believer is never healthy, and is not Biblical, no.

And others are correct - most pastors who insist with such terms are UPC/Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals, and they deny the Trinity, which is a basic Christian belief. Much heresy begins to flow from such an unsound base. It is not a safe place to be.
Agreed 100%.

As someone who has experienced a similar situation (albeit not to the same level), I empathize with that you are feeling. That said, speaking in tongues is NOT required for salvation. To require speaking in tongues for salvation is not a Biblical teaching. I know the proof texts they will quote, but proof texts are not the same as being Biblical. Salvation cannot be defined by individual verses, especially concerning this. It is important to at minimum look at all of scripture. Sadly, many people who are not gifted with tongues have experienced spiritual depression and defeat through people promoting this belief, myself included.

The teaching of salvation requiring speaking in tongues is not of God.
 
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patdude832

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Thanks to all of you for your kind and helpful advice. I have separated myself from the pastor and church that I was talking about. I know I can be saved in Christ, without required "signs" I am trying a new Baptist church in my area, and hope it goes well. I'm new to theology, so I'm not always sure of what basic Christian belief. Thank you again.
 
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graceandpeace

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Thanks to all of you for your kind and helpful advice. I have separated myself from the pastor and church that I was talking about. I know I can be saved in Christ, without required "signs" I am trying a new Baptist church in my area, and hope it goes well. I'm new to theology, so I'm not always sure of what basic Christian belief. Thank you again.

I agree with the responses you received here.

You're welcome to post & ask questions anytime. :)

One basic suggestion I find myself making to new Christians besides finding a church is to take things slow - do some reading/research, such as about Christian history or traditions, about the beliefs of different denominations, etc.

(I'm not a new Christian, but going through this process in the last few years really helped me. I ended up switching from the conservative Methodist/Wesleyan tradition to the Episcopal Church.)

So again, let us know if we can answer more questions or be of some help. Christians agree about many things regardless of the tradition we're part of, but there are disagreements as well & I know it can be confusing.

Good luck as you seek.
 
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Steeno7

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I am new to this forum and generally new to faith in Christ. I have been hooked up to a pastor that has views I don't know are biblical or not. According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough. He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues. I have tried so hard to do such, but in the end I always end up feeling like a failure. Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?

Find another "pastor".
 
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toLiJC

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I am new to this forum and generally new to faith in Christ. I have been hooked up to a pastor that has views I don't know are biblical or not. According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough. He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues. I have tried so hard to do such, but in the end I always end up feeling like a failure. Can I be saved by faith in Christ, even without speaking in tongues?

unfortunately, the speaking in tongues as a (main) criterion of whether the believer/worshiper is of God is one of the most common misbeliefs, because where is the guarantee that the ability to speak in tongues and the speech therein is of God and not of satan if the right exercise of (the) faith is not first?!, that is why Saint Paul said:

1 Corinthians 14:1-40 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order."

plus, the speaking in tongues of the Holy Apostles consisted chiefly in speaking foreign languages:

Acts 2:1-11 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

so, the advice that is also given in the biblical scriptures is: first of all be sure about the things in the faith by exercising the faith, reasoning, concluding and deciding alone, carefully and right(ly), but also be careful lest someone witness/preach/prophesy the word/truth of the true Lord God so that you might not override it - i.e. with respect

Blessings
 
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hedrick

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From what you say, your pastor doesn’t actually say you can’t be saved without speaking in tongues. Rather, he views that as a visible confirmation, and doesn’t seem to recognize any others. Scripture speaks of every Christian as being born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:5). However Paul recognizes many gifts of the Spirit. See 1 Cor 12:27-31. This is very clear that not all speak in tongues, nor do all show any other specific gift.

The practical difficulty is that not all of the gifts are quite so clearly visible. Hence if you want a simple test, speaking in tongues is a lot more convenient. Unfortunately God doesn’t always give us a convenient answer.

I worry about tongues particularly because I fear that it’s easy to delude oneself about them. You may or may not value studies of Pentecostals by non-Pentecostals, but the things I’ve read say it’s not a divine language: the syllables used in tongues are the syllables of one’s native language, just rearranged, and is not exclusive to Christians. See e.g. http://www.frame-poythress.org/ling...speaking-their-contributions-and-limitations/. There’s also reason to think that the practice is often developed intentionally. See e.g. the book “When God Talks Back.” That doesn’t meant that it’s false. Traditional spiritual practices are also developed intentionally. But it’s not a big surprise that someone like you is unable to do it without developing a particular mind-set.

Note that the account in Acts 1 doesn’t seem to be the same thing. It was people speaking intelligible messages in human languages. (Or if some Greek Orthodox are to be believed, the Spirit giving the listeners the gift of understanding Greek.) However the descriptions in 1 Cor 13 sound like Paul’s congregations may well have been doing something similar to modern Pentecostals.
 
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029b10

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According to him, you can be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Yet he says that's not enough.

The LORD's grace is sufficient.


He tells me that the only way of knowing you are truly for God, is the evidence of speaking in tongues.

Ask him if the spoken word comes from the flesh or the spirit.

For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. Ps 139:4

The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment. Prov 12:19
 
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Speaking in tongues is not a sure-fire way to tell if you are saved or not. The Scripture that does mention it also mentions that there must be witnesses to translate it and make use of it. If you speak in tongues in your room by yourself, then where is the witness? If you speak in tongues in the middle of a congregation, but no one knows what you are doing or what you are saying, time is being wasted and there is no productive work being done for that church body.
Have confidence in your faith, question and doubt it if necessary, and build it up.
 
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