Spiritually they had already had their certain destination, physical as a camp will act and experience like humans generally ( physical will not do any contribution to the spirit Rom9:13 ).
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Urghhh, Why Can't Jesus Save Everybody!!
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Rom 9:20 "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." If I'm not supposed to understand this verse why do I have such a strong desire to understand it? "One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will? But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God?" I'm not talking back but I'm faced with an option of hell for eternity and you just said that I could be one of them. "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" Yes that is exactly what I'm asking! But only because I face an option of hell. Burning in hell for eternity is not something I desire! From what I understand there's really nothing I can do except cross my fingers and say Jesus please have mercy on me?.. This is not the loving God that I hear talked about so much. I understand that justice must be done but once again isn't calling on Jesus enough? Why would he still condemn people after they have called on him (Matthew 7:21). I have so many questions and with my itty bitty little understanding I can't even grasp to understand the simplest of his desires. However, with my little itty bitty sense of understanding I'm forced to come up with the conclusion that this is not fair. For people with such little understanding to face such a harsh punishment.
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In that case, all men will be saved, since all men are commanded to repent. Is that what you believe, and is that what Scripture reveals? God "grants" repentance and remission of sins to those who turn to Christ by faith.
Repentance is not a matter of "human effort" as you have surmised. It is a change of mind, followed by a change of life and direction of life.
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If in our conscience we say "Burning in hell for eternity is not something I desire" ,that is a very good start, cause some one who were born of flesh (devil spirit within him/her) with their action will prove that they did not take any concern about that (they may say that they seek God, they obey God but their heart surely say otherwise ), then with our humbleness will lead us to let God Him self teach us as He wants cause every things that is divine shall come to us as His Grace /His charity only and not depend on our own wisdom (only who has ears then listen Rev3:6).
His words will show us :
1. Why should God create humans in the earth?.
2. Why should God create Adam and Eve first in Eden?, why not all He wanted to create (all names in the book of life ) at once ?.
3. Why should be satan there in Eden ?.
4. If after men fell in Eden then were driven out from Eden, did not it show that men surely ate the fruit of the tree of life intentionally if they were still in Eden ?/did not it prove that they were spiritually dead creatures (like corpses who could not do any simplest order ).
5. Which one the simplest ?: not eating the fruit of the tree of life intentionally or fulfilling the hundreds of Torah laws ?. ( What's for those hundreds laws ?)
6. are not those 5 questions above lead us to know further about God's Grace ?.
7. What is God's Grace really mean ?.
8. Why should Jesus come to us 2.000 years ago ?,why not in Abraham era or Mosses era ?
... there are many questions that surely follow as our days running.
Finally we will understand that there are two kinds of men those are living in this world, 1. Who are created by God/ God's people ( written in the book of life before the foundation of the world/born of God ).
2. Who are born of flesh (God did not create their spirits), merely as a camp for devil reside /not written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.
After we grasp it well, we will not say "This is not the loving God that I hear talked about so much".
Although God's seeds (names in the book of life) have already been born, all of them were spiritually dead (Psal51:5), so they need to be resurrected/ to be saved by His Grace only, Who comes as winner = the saved, who comes as loser = eternally dead/their names are removed from the book of life immediately Rev3:5 .
I apologize if there are many wrongs in writing , cause English is not my mother language.
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I can promise you that won't happen, for anyone. The fire is necessary for cleansing and purifying metals especially Gold which is the nature of God. For our God is a consuming fire, this is a Good thing. Hell is a process that the soul/life of someone goes through in transformation, some would call this dying daily, or dying to self. This can ONLY be done through The Holy Spirit.
Consider these verses:
Isa 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
Isa 33:12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Isa 33:13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
(Answer)
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
(Question), can any of us do this on our own? no.
But there is one who has, and that is Jesus Christ our Lord.
Fire is Good, it is God...Fire cleanses...
Judgment is Good, it corrects us not condemns us, only those things that are not of Him, and isn't that what we want?
Why are we to be baptized with Fire?
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- Dec 26, 2007
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Would that disappoint you, if that turns out to be the
case?
I mean, yeah, since God knows the end from the
beginning, He would know in advance who would
respond positively to that command. Why, then,
would He issue a command to repent to someone He
knew in advance wouldn’t ? That would make no
sense.
Whether one calls it “human effort” or something
else, mainstream Christianity will insist that,
ultimately, salvation is initiated by the individual;
they’ll tell you that this “change of mind” is initiated
by the person, rather than bestowed upon him/her
by God—the latter which, imo, is what those verses
are implying. Personally, I see repentance the same
way I see faith / belief: gifts of God, from God.
Naturally, not everyone under the umbrella of
Christianity sees it that way (shocking, I know
).-
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Bull-logna...Even if all the works that a man has is burned up in the fire, The man himself shall be saved.
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(Let me ask you something, who does this scripture leave out)?
Rev_5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Grace is what causes one to repent, for Grace is:
khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
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Exactly, this is the purpose of The Lake of Fire, that was prepared for who? The devil and his messengers/angles. Not for mankind, but only what was IN mankind. devils, man of sin, son of perdition....etc. etc....
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So Satan is just to be cleansed by fire and "corrected"? And then what, he will join us all in Heaven?
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"And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." Luke 12:44
The devil had much more understanding than us. He made a choice to separate himself from God and tried to dethrone him knowing what might be the consequence. If you ask me that deserves mighty and great punishment. However, we are made in God's image with such little understanding. We've just discovered that there are still human tribes in the amazon who have had no contact with the outside world. We have so little understanding that it just wouldn't seem fair to eternally punish someone for something that they did not know. Yes Jesus saved us from everlasting torment and he hardens who he wants to harden so that true mercy can be shown.
"As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit." Zachariah 9:11
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That’s a real nice and sweet sentiment, but that’s just not the way it works. Those who die still identified with Satan will share in Satan’s destiny. Just as those who die identified with Christ will share in Christ's destiny. There are no “second chances”.
The fire is eternal fire, not temporal. And their punishment is eternal punishment, not temporal. Matt. 25:41-46
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The adversary is destroyed in the fire, the person is saved and cleansed from him who once blinded them.
The destruction of the wicked is eternal "aionios", NOT because the process of destruction continues forever, but because the Results are permanent.
Eternal often refers to the permanence of the Result, rather than the continuation of a process. It is evident that the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is eternal, not because of its duration, but because of its permanent results.
Notice it says "eternal punishment" NOT "eternal Punishing".
Because of Adam's disobedience, this nature has passed upon all mankind, we don't even know we need saving, until The Holy Spirit begins to influence our heart. And that is His call, not ours.
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I know the argument, it is simply wrong.
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." Mark 9:43
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That is a reference to one who is already saved. So it is completely out of context. Bottom line -- are you a Universalist, and if so which Scripture supports your position THAT ALL MEN WILL REPENT AND ALL WILL BE SAVED?
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That's not even the issue. If all men would be saved, there would be tremendous rejoicing in Heaven. The fact of the matter is that ALL MEN WILL NOT BE SAVED because ALL WILL NOT REPENT.
One can play all kinds of theological games, but the truth of the matter is that sinners will either obey the Gospel or reject the Gospel. If you are trying to make God responsible for the rejection of the Gospel by sinners, you are simply fantasizing. There are two sides to salvation, and only those who repent and believe are saved. But you can always continue to delude yourself.
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- Dec 26, 2007
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You do realize that typing in all-caps denotes shouting online?
Why are you shouting?
-
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Rev20:15 Whoever did not have his name written in the book of the living was thrown into the lake of fire.
There are many names removed from the book of life , it mean apostates will be there too.
Rev3:5 Those who win the victory will be clothed like this in white, and I will not remove their names from the book of the living. In the presence of my Father and of his angels I will declare openly that they belong to me.
(implicit : who lose will be removed ).
Mat24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
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