And this is why Iran can't be trusted

Show they're showing off, baring their teeth. The US government, or possibly the British one, will do the same and they'll growl back and forth for a bit before sniffing each other's tails for a bit and striking a truce.

This is the way diplomacy works, MDC: a lot of posturing, a lot of behind-the-scenes talking, and in the end everyone compromises.

Do you think you might be becoming a bit obsessed with Iran?

Mikhael Disciple of Christ said:

No, I'm staying aware of the real "great satan," and not just blowing off their comments and intentions.

Click to expand...

So why Iran, in particular? They don't have a history of being particularly bellicose. Most Iranians I know are lovely, well-educated, erudite people. Meanwhile, when's the last time Iran actually attacked something?

Worry all you like, but all it will do is raise your blood pressure for no good reason. Or you could choose to educate yourself. Get your hands on some of Kissinger's books.

These are predictable comments aimed at scoring points with his less-learned countrymen, not serious statements of policy. Iranian Trump if you will. Cold hearted machismo is rather attractive to the stupid.

MikeK said:

These are predictable comments aimed at scoring points with his less-learned countrymen, not serious statements of policy. Iranian Trump if you will. Cold hearted machismo is rather attractive to the stupid.

Click to expand...

Ironically it's not just stupid Iranians that fall for it, apparently.

I think the problem we have is this idea that making a deal with Iran means we implicitly trust them. That's not what we're doing. In fact, the entire idea that we want inspectors to go in shows that we don't trust them. We want the deal we signed to be verified on a regular basis.

Look, I don't trust my cable company or my phone company. We are in a business relationship where they provide services and I pay them. I check my bills for both of these each month to make sure strange expenses or new charges are not showing up. I have found them before and have had to get them to take those off. If I trusted them, I would never double check. I don't see why making a deal with Iran is somehow making us best buddies that will hang out on weekends and watch movies.

You can't trust Israel either.

Or Britain, Certainly not the French, I've always been suspect of Germany, The Dutch, Dane and Pole's are unreliable, The Fin's, Swedes and Norwegians are all socialist.

Mexico is sending us the poor, their rapey and their gang members, Japan keeps stealing our jobs.

China's hacking our government , India's doing the same to our industries.

Australia is suing us over imported beef, South Africa won't let us import cars.

Antarctica is full of sex manics and drunks.

Which leaves us with Canada

and Scott Walker wants to build a wall to keep them out.

"Our list of allies grows thin"

- Elrond ( When is list of allies was getting rather short)

Saber rattling. Oddly, the right wing seems to almost have the opposite strategy. Everyday Fox News et al brings out something new to fear.

I'll never understand why so many hear are so quick to reassure us that the Iranians repeated statements of their opinions towards us and their intentions are merely political grandstanding.

Oh, sure, I can see that such statements can be political grandstanding in that environment. What I fail to see is how that is any way reassuring. In fact even if it is nothing more than grandstanding I find that in and of itself worrying for two reasons. The first is that for such grandstanding to work it must appeal to the populace. Imagine that a foreign politician routinely gave the speech "we shall not rest until every Catholic is tortured and executed" but then told reporters not to worry since that's just what politicians say in his country and he has no intention to actually do anything against Catholics. This would still tell you that his country is a really bad place for any Catholic to be, and furthermore that it is entirely possible that if his successors could state the same words in earnest. At best we could say that his country is not an imminent threat, but it would still be highly worrying in the near future.

But the second reason that this does not reassure me is that even given that they are lying about their intentions for political gain, what makes anyone think that their actual intentions involve anything good for us? Even with no information whatsoever about a foreign politician, a neutral assessment of his possible motivations would involve the consideration that he is hostile to us and our allies. If we are negotiating a treaty with a complete unknown, we should consider whether he will follow through or if he intends to ignore the agreement. If he openly states that he does not intend to abide by the agreement, it seems that that should be evidence towards him not intending to abide by it, even if we do not think it is ironclad proof since he might have said such things for other reasons.

Especially when we are dealing with nuclear weapons, it is absurd to have our default assumption be that a nation is trustworthy and means us no harm. But this is the assumption that many people here seem to be operating with, and I just can't understand it at all.

Antigone said:

So why Iran, in particular? They don't have a history of being particularly bellicose. Most Iranians I know are lovely, well-educated, erudite people. Meanwhile, when's the last time Iran actually attacked something?

Click to expand...

Obviously you'be had your head buried in the sand for a very long time. When one speaks of "Iran" one does not speak of the Iranians, who are being held hostage by their fanatical spiritual and political leaders. "Iran" means those who control Iran and hate America. Who do you think is the biggest supporter of terrorism worldwide, supplying cash and armaments to all who hate the Great Satan, Israel, and anyone else who stands in their way? Ayatollah Khomeini declared war on America and the west over 40 years ago, and they have been successfully waging that war, to the extent that they now have an actual ally in the White House, who is giving them everything they want plus billions of dollars to continue to destroy innocent lives and perpetrate unspeakable atrocities.

Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world today.

Americans, like the rest of the world, can easily ignore any of all that when the prospects are cheaper gas prices at the pump.

SolomonVII said:

Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world today.

Americans, like the rest of the world, can easily ignore any of all that when the prospects are cheaper gas prices at the pump.

Click to expand...

The funny thing is that America does not need Middle Eastern oil any longer, so that may not even be the motivator. Just as during the Cold War, some were "soft" on Communism, we now have the American politicians "soft" on the Jihad and the Jihadists who actually hate their guts and deem America to be the Great Satan. This is what happens when a nation turns away from God. They are blind to reality and love the lies more than the truth.

BTW the Cold War never came to an end, but once again Western politicians preferred the lie to the truth, whereas Vladimir Putin prefers the truth to the lies (unless those lies emanate from him).

I would have no problem with iran being a nuclear power in the region.

in fact it would be a welcome counter balance to the Saudi/Zionist alliance in the region...

S.ilvio said:

I would have no problem with iran being a nuclear power in the region.

in fact it would be a welcome counter balance to the Saudi/Zionist alliance in the region...

Click to expand...

I'd prefer all nations destroyed their WMD stockpiles and use the savings they gained by rejecting weapons that have no purpose in a just war to serve the least among us.

I am as concerned about a nuclear Israel (the only nuclear country who refuses to aknowledge such) as I am a nuclear Iran - somewhat but most not. If there is a nuclear war in the next few decades, it will be American and Russian weapons that incinerate the world's most developed areas, not Iran or Israel's. The best these minor players can do is make a spark, there are only two powderkegs and we own one of them.

Mikhael Disciple of Christ said:

I find that to be appalling and sick.

Click to expand...

Apt description.

Actually Iran is playing by the rules set to them. That is the big problem with the deal is that Iran can baswically do whatever they want and there will be no consequences for them.

classicalhero said:

Actually Iran is playing by the rules set to them. That is the big problem with the deal is that Iran can baswically do whatever they want and there will be no consequences for them.

Click to expand...

There is a possibility that Iran will eventually be the one to nix the deal. Even if the deal spoon feeds a pathway to nuclear weapons with a delivery system to them -even if they don't cheat!- the fact that they were spoon fed the deal by the hand of who they consider to be the Great Satan galls them to no end.

classicalhero said:

Actually Iran is playing by the rules set to them. That is the big problem with the deal is that Iran can baswically do whatever they want and there will be no consequences for them.

Click to expand...

I am sure Israel will preemptively strike if any mention of such an attack becomes more than simply words. What worries me is: how will other countries deal with Israel acting in self-defence? Since admittedly, most won't view it in that light.