once saved always saved?

janny108 said:

what is the doctrine of once saved always saved? Do wof folks believe that or something else?

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http://www.christianforums.com/threads/osas-revisited-again.7798509/

Try this Janny from our own Word of Faith (POV). This should help you in your search. Enjoy!

I for one believe in the security of the believer.

janny108 said:

what is the doctrine of once saved always saved? Do wof folks believe that or something else?

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The quick answer is this: yes!

Some in WoF believe OSAS. Andrew Wommack is a good example (although Andrew does believe you can willfully walk away, as opposed to do anything that makes you fall away). Another is Joseph Prince.

Some believe you can lose salvation (probably more in numbers here than in OSAS).

WoF is charismatic, and its roots grow out of Pentecostal beginnings. Most Pentecostal believers are strong believers in the ability to lose salvation (these tend to preach fire and brimstone a lot -- exclusion for not believing). The OSAS believers mostly came through the Grace teachers (these tend to teach God's love and grace -- inclusion for believing).

ABlessedMan said:

The quick answer is this: yes!

Some in WoF believe OSAS. Andrew Wommack is a good example (although Andrew does believe you can willfully walk away, as opposed to do anything that makes you fall away). Another is Joseph Prince.

Some believe you can lose salvation (probably more in numbers here than in OSAS).

WoF is charismatic, and its roots grow out of Pentecostal beginnings. Most Pentecostal believers are strong believers in the ability to lose salvation (these tend to preach fire and brimstone a lot -- exclusion for not believing). The OSAS believers mostly came through the Grace teachers (these tend to teach God's love and grace -- inclusion for believing).

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Spot on.
Since many WoF, at least the older and old line preachers/teachers, came from holiness leaning Pentecostal churches, they carry that legalistic bent with them. We have debated this topic for years here on the WoF and SF/C forum. I'm not sure many have changed ground. Was hoping to get some new blood into the discussion.
Peace
"how do you kill the spirit of Christ in you?" dids

I first became a Christian in 2000. Afterwards I didn't just "tip-toe" around church. I got involved. I worked with the youth group, went on mission trips and became a leader, so to say, in my church. I went on to bible college. While I was there, my home church went through a pastoral change. I often talked with the new pastor when I would go in for visits, and talked about starting up some new ministries and out reaches, when I returned. I moved back after graduation and the pastor told me that he never said any of the things we had talked about and I would never be in ministry. For some reason, it seemed he and his wife also, had it out for me. I knew that God had called me back to my home church, but I walked right into hell it seemed. I met a couple that was opening a Christian ran skateboard park. They eventually asked me to be the minister, or Chaplin so to speak of the park and the skate team. I was there for over a year and we were growing. Kids and teens, and people in there early 20s would come weekly to the sevices. It was an amazing time. We met on Tuesday evenings so if any of them wanted to go to their family's churches they could. Towards the end, the pastor and he's wife told some parents of the kids and teens, that I was being sexual with several of them. Totally destroyed my life. Luckily, the owners, everyone that went there and even some of the parents that would visit testified on my be half and all the charges were dropped. But my reputation was tarnished beyond repair. Still just about anywhere I went I was looked down upon. I finally had enough with everything that had to do with Jesus. A few years later I joined the army, was deployed to Afghanistan, I knew if the worst were to happen and I lost my life, I would have gone to hell, and I didn't care.
I'm now back serving my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I know now, just as before all that happened, I will go to heaven.
Jesus did not give up or leave me, I turned and left Him.

Strictly speaking, it covers the area of promises of the believer's eternal security, as in Romans 8.38-39.

Some Pentecostal groups such as Word of faith might put their own construction on it, though.

bearded_one said:

I first became a Christian in 2000. Afterwards I didn't just "tip-toe" around church. I got involved. I worked with the youth group, went on mission trips and became a leader, so to say, in my church. I went on to bible college. While I was there, my home church went through a pastoral change. I often talked with the new pastor when I would go in for visits, and talked about starting up some new ministries and out reaches, when I returned. I moved back after graduation and the pastor told me that he never said any of the things we had talked about and I would never be in ministry. For some reason, it seemed he and his wife also, had it out for me. I knew that God had called me back to my home church, but I walked right into hell it seemed. I met a couple that was opening a Christian ran skateboard park. They eventually asked me to be the minister, or Chaplin so to speak of the park and the skate team. I was there for over a year and we were growing. Kids and teens, and people in there early 20s would come weekly to the sevices. It was an amazing time. We met on Tuesday evenings so if any of them wanted to go to their family's churches they could. Towards the end, the pastor and he's wife told some parents of the kids and teens, that I was being sexual with several of them. Totally destroyed my life. Luckily, the owners, everyone that went there and even some of the parents that would visit testified on my be half and all the charges were dropped. But my reputation was tarnished beyond repair. Still just about anywhere I went I was looked down upon. I finally had enough with everything that had to do with Jesus. A few years later I joined the army, was deployed to Afghanistan, I knew if the worst were to happen and I lost my life, I would have gone to hell, and I didn't care.
I'm now back serving my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I know now, just as before all that happened, I will go to heaven.
Jesus did not give up or leave me, I turned and left Him.

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Hey "Bearded one"... welcome to our forum. Sorry about some of these experiences you mentioned. Even though you "left" God, He NEVER left you and NEVER will. His Love for you brought you back for He has work for you to do.

BTW... thank you for your military service. I checked out your bio and seen that your from Tulsa, Oklahoma and you attend a Victory Christian Center Church. Just wondering if this is the one that Billy Joe Daugherty use to pastor?

Once again, Welcome...

Be blessed to be a BLESSING...

hhodgson said:

BTW... thank you for your military service. I checked out your bio and seen that your from Tulsa, Oklahoma and you attend a Victory Christian Center Church. Just wondering if this is the one that Billy Joe Daugherty use to pastor?

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Yes it is. Now his son is pastoring. And doing an amazing job at it. You can definitely see his father in him at times.

hhodgson said:

Even though you "left" God, He NEVER left you and NEVER will. His Love for you brought you back for He has work for you to do.

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I know he never left me, can tell that now. It was me who had turned my back.

I grew up Baptist and was taught eternal security. Then I started attending an Assembly of God church where they don't believe in eternal security. As a result I studied the subject because I honestly had no idea what to think and felt that I needed to understand it. I finally resolved the issue for myself with one thought - you don't lose your free will when you're saved. You always retain that right to reject Jesus, therefore the possibility always exists. That doesn't mean that I believe in eternal insecurity like some people, though. But the Bible does teach that if you start down the road of rejecting God, His Word, His church, His Spirit, His commands ... etc. there is the possibility that you could end up worse than you were before you received Jesus. (II Pet. 2:20,21)

Simon the Tanner said:

As a result I studied the subject because I honestly had no idea what to think and felt that I needed to understand it. I finally resolved the issue for myself with one thought - you don't lose your free will when you're saved.

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Hi Simon... We all know that this subject has been debated for hundreds of years and by thousands of theologians that ends of with what? This... I personally believe that God may have set it up that way. It's really not a matter of who's right, but who's walking in Love. I say that because even the "best of the best" of our theologians didn't prove their interpretations to the fullest of the meaning of what God is saying. The result! Many of these theologians still today... barely speak to one another. Not all though, for many are now receiving and walking in God's full grace... and even though they may continue to have their disagreements... they remain in fellowship with one another. That's the "good news" of the Gospel of Grace.

So in previous days as we presented our doctrinal arguments and if we didn't agree... most would stay with their pride and walk away. Satan (loves) and has used that strategy that's been working for hundreds of years. Today, we are learning to fully walk in God's Grace that we can now agree to disagree and, (in Him)... we remain in perfect fellowship with each other because we Love one another. He (hates) what is happening now through the full Grace of God which is coming alive in our hearts as never before. While we are walking in Love, talking in Love, and even disagreeing with each other... we still walk and talk in Love... and what is Satan doing? Having a psychotic reaction. Yes! and why? Because the Church of Jesus Christ... through the fullness of His Grace is becoming "more alive" to complete the work He has for us to do.

I leave everyone to consider this...




Are we not ALL prodigal sons?

prod·i·gal /ˈprädəɡəl/ son: • a person who leaves home and behaves recklessly, but later makes a repentant return. (Being sorry is REMORSE, changing your mind is "true repentance.")

In this situation, (or in any situation WE may face)... How and why... did the prodigal son come back to the father? Key Words: (v17) “But when he came to himself"...

How did he "come to himself?" Did he hear the voice of God? Let's again go back to John 10:27...


This is the message of His GRACE for those who believe. As born-again believers... "we are His sheep." We listen to His voice because, He (knows) us and He (knows) that we will follow Him. We have been His chosen.

Thank you Simon... You are a BLESSING to the forum.

I was raised with Free Will Baptist,and they teach you can backslide to hell.

All I can say is that with living like a heathern in my younger days,their was never a time that I thought God had abandoned me.

I caused my self and others pain ,but God...

But God never let me go,I repented often because The Holy Spirit was drawing me back.

Even a disobedient Child knows his Father.

now faith said:

I was raised with Free Will Baptist, and they teach you can backslide to hell.

All I can say is that with living like a heathen in my younger days, their was never a time that I thought God had abandoned me.

I caused my self and others pain, but God...

But God never let me go, I repented often because The Holy Spirit was drawing me back.

Even a disobedient Child knows his Father.

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You were a heathen in your younger days as a Christian? My Catholic friends call me a heathen now!

hhodgson said:

You were a heathen in your younger days as a Christian? My Catholic friends call me a heathen now! View attachment 163395

View attachment 163406​

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My Cathloic friends disowned me a long time ago,well all except Bob

now faith said:

My Cathloic friends disowned me a long time ago,well all except Bob

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I am not disowned (yet) but in their eyes I'm a heathen. I am more than a little "peculiar" though. Some say I'm way out there. Even a few in my family. Just glad Jesus Loves the heathen, the peculiar, and the little weird too.

So... What about Bob? (Very good movie btw... with Bill Murray) A "clean" must see comedy. I gotta get the DVD.

Love His Amazing Grace...

once son / daughter always son / daughter. that's what i know. Our identity as citizenship of heaven is guaranteed by JESUS because we have the passport, HIS work in Calvary.

But it does not means you have passport then you are "rich". some citizen poor, some wealthy one. Some with big house in heaven + plenty reward, some shared room with other citizen cuz just received CHRIST in hospital ICU before last breath.

de1929 said:

once son / daughter always son / daughter. that's what i know. Our identity as citizenship of heaven is guaranteed by JESUS because we have the passport, HIS work in Calvary.

But it does not means you have passport then you are "rich". some citizen poor, some wealthy one. Some with big house in heaven + plenty reward, some shared room with other citizen cuz just received CHRIST in hospital ICU before last breath.

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Acts: 10. 34. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35. But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Romans: 2. 11. For there is no respect of persons with God.

Hebrews: 10. 23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Ouch

janny108 said:

what is the doctrine of once saved always saved? Do wof folks believe that or something else?

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I find that to some once saved always saved can mean to some; What is the very least I have to be assured of going to heaven That's just a very dangerous misunderstanding of what it means to be saved. In fact someone that thinks that way I doubt is genuinely saved.

When The Holy Spirit speaks to our deepest inner self (soul) that is the LORD calling you to become a follower of Jesus Christ. I refer to that as God calling you, as Scripture says we are called. "If" I respond to that inner voice of the Holy Spirits calling me to believe and follow Jesus Christ and say yes I will follow You Jesus, that is my first step. Responding to Jesus and admitting I am a sinner, I acknowledge my sins that separate me from a Holy LORD Almighty, Creator of the World. I admit I have no way to rid myself of my sins. I fully admit that because I am a sinful person all by myself, I am utterly without hope and according to the Bible I am by choice going to hell. Because Jesus Christ paid the cost of my sins, Jesus redeemed me by shedding His blood for my sins. (without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins) Jesus died was buried rose on the third day. This was the price paid for my sine. By gratefully accepting Jesus Christ who died in my place, I ask to become a follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus said we must confess Him as Lord before men, by being baptized.
In becoming a genuine "Follower" of Him, and His teachings, we are "born again". John 3:16. being a genuine follower(born again) no one can be removed from the protection of His eternal secure keeping of our souls. John 10:27-29.

If a person walks away from Jesus, that person was not a genuine follower of Jesus from the beginning. Faith that falters, was not faith in the first place. I believe this better states how the believer has security in Jesus Christ. But we must be very careful to remember that a Christian can backslide and become a very miserable person, but that does not mean the loss of salvation. We can repent and be back in fellowship.