Mormons Keep Affiliation With Boy Scouts Despite Decision Allowing Gay Leaders

Albion said:

Why a church that talks about the importance of staying true to correct belief and practice would not appreciate that it would take relatively little to get the organization up and going in the USA

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Does the above list seem like "relatively little"?

And getting a program going just for the USA would be silly: Mormon church programs* are identical in all nations because it is an international church. The church in the USA teaches and does the same things the church in Nigeria does. A Mormon scouting program should be for the international church, not just the USA. (*The current BSA being the obvious exception).

Albion said:

other churches with much smaller treasuries have long since done what you're saying is just too much for the church that has far more on the line and much more in the way of resources.

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Also note: being a smaller organization actually makes things go a lot faster. It's a matter of logistics (big is more complicated), not treasuries.

And I didn't say the Mormon church won't leave BSA ever, in fact I said I think it'll happen in a couple of years (which admittedly is me reading tea leaves)[/QUOTE]

awitch said:

'Anymore' I guess is my last hang up. It's as if there were no other concerns about any other sins prior to this one issue and the gay issue alone is the only reason to consider abandoning the organization.

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Well "Adulterers of America" wasn't actively campaigning to be Scoutmasters, so other sexual sins weren't really a big issue.

And I would say that the gay scoutmasters is the latest incident in a series of BSA-Mormon conflicts the last decade.

Albion said:

I took account of that. I sympathized with you on that matter.

However, to stay with the BSA does not logically follow from the fact, if true, that none of the competing organizations treat the LDS right.

If that's the case, the second-best solution--if example, morals, and conscience, etc. really are important to the church--would be to form your own. And this would not be all that difficult, despite the suggestion that was made to the contrary.

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It's not so much the difficulty as it is the time that would be required to get something constructed from the ground up.

Jane_Doe said:

Well "Adulterers of America" wasn't actively campaigning to be Scoutmasters, so other sexual sins weren't really a big issue.

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Before, someone said sexual sins were just below disbelief and murder and now they aren't really a big issue?

Well, I guess the church should abandon the scouts then. I wonder what other organizations they will mass exodus from since homosexuals aren't going anywhere.

Jane_Doe said:

Does the above list seem like "relatively little"?

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I said that your list seems exaggerated to me. IMO, to get the alternative movement up and going would not require nearly what you have suggested. To have it be just right and all that you'd want would take more, but that's a different issue.

And getting a program going just for the USA would be silly: Mormon church programs* are identical in all nations because it is an international church.

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I consider that idea downright silly. Most of your member scouts are here in the USA and it's the "Boy Scouts of AMERICA" that you'd be protesting against because of its recent decision, not every similar outfit in the world. If the LDS organization wanted to expand to the whole world, that would be a project for a later time.

Again, timidity or equivocation, when it comes to doing what's right with God, is not what should be the church's goal, and that goes for any denomination, whether Baptist, Lutheran, Adventist, or Mormon. That's my view. For what it's worth, I'm not denouncing anyone so much as I'm explaining why I'm disappointed in this turn of events, especially when the LDS church was in a position most other churches are not to HAVE MADE a real difference.

Albion said:

I said that your list seems exaggerated to me. IMO, to get the alternative movement up and going would not require nearly what you have suggested. To have it be just right and all that you'd want would take more, but that's a different issue.


I consider that idea downright silly. Most of your member scouts are here in the USA and it's the "Boy Scouts of AMERICA" that you'd be protesting against because of its recent decision, not every similar outfit in the world. If the LDS organization wanted to expand to the whole world, that would be a project for a later time.

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According to you're little info tab, you're a Baptist, correct? It is my understanding of Baptist beliefs, is that each church is to operate independently of each other- develop own curriculum, activities etc. (Please correct me if I have bad info).

The Mormon church is run differently than that: no local church sets its own curriculum, schedule, etc. Rather, everything is run *identically* throughout the world: if I were to go to Japan I would get literally the exact same Sunday School lesson from the manual that week as my church in Wyoming. The awards I won as a female youth are identical in Colorado as they are in South Africa. A Mormon-ran program for young men would have be identical in Texas and Russia, not just to replace BSA but whole mis-mash of local country stuff. It is a *giant* amount of work to set things up and require the entire list I wrote and more.

Albion said:

For what it's worth, I'm not denouncing anyone so much as I'm explaining why I'm disappointed in this turn of events, especially when the LDS church was in a position most other churches are not to HAVE MADE a real difference.

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To be honest, I wasn't happy with the announcement either (I know few that are in the Mormon community). And I don't think this will last, nor do most Mormons want it to.

awitch said:

Before, someone said sexual sins were just below disbelief and murder and now they aren't really a big issue?

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Judas and murders aren't allowed to be scoutmasters either...

justlookinla said:

Most of the folks I know of are leaving the Boy Scouts and enrolling in Trail Life. The Boy Scouts will always be around, but with a much much smaller membership in the future.

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Trail Life won't accept Mormons because Mormon's aren't trinitarians.

Jane_Doe said:

According to you're little info tab, you're a Baptist, correct?

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No. I don't know whose you might have been reading instead.

Jane_Doe said:

Judas and murders aren't allowed to be scoutmasters either...

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I probably missed something... what does Judas mean in this context?

Albion said:

No. I don't know whose you might have been reading instead.

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Ok... *facepalm*... I feel very silly... no idea where I got that from.

Zoness said:

I'll reiterate my current position though: The LDS church is pretty revisionist. As soon as one of their core doctrines becomes unpalatable to society at large, they'll change. Don't get me wrong, I think change is good and I don't think its quite that cut and dry, it will be a very long time before the LDS is tacitly okay with homosexuality. However I take issue with the assertions that are usually made that the LDS "has always supported XYZ" with the most classic example being the 1978 decision to allow blacks into the priesthood and the quiet removal of links to "The Priesthood and the Negro".

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This decision had very little to do with racism becoming unpalatable to society at large. The change was actually made because of spectacular success the church enjoyed in Brazil. If they didn't change their policy they were going to have huge congregation there with no priesthood

awitch said:

How is that determination made and how is it screened for potential troop leaders?

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I suspect apostates can't be troop leaders of a Mormon troop.

Jane_Doe said:

To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

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Both Baha'is and Mormons would agree that drinking alcohol interferes with the above. Shall we tell the BSA that they should ban scout leaders who enjoy a beer once in awhile?

justlookinla said:

Without exception, atheistic governments are involved with mass murder ,offer a poor standard of living, and have starving people.

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There is no such thing as "Atheistic" government. You may be thinking of less religious countries such as places in Europe. Denmark, Sweden and Norway come to mind. And they have a pretty high standard of living. Name one country that states it's citizens aren't allowed to believe in a higher power.

JonFromMinnesota said:

There is no such thing as "Atheistic" government. You may be thinking of less religious countries such as places in Europe. Denmark, Sweden and Norway come to mind. And they have a pretty high standard of living. Name one country that states it's citizens aren't allowed to believe in a higher power.

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North Korea?

Jane_Doe said:

To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

[...]

BSA isn't really doing that anymore.... hence the questions about leaving.

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Well, morality is subjective. I say their guidelines are more moral than ever.

Albion said:

North Korea?

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I'll concede this, yes. I over spoke a bit with that post. The difference here is that they are forced into this. It would be unfair to the people of North Korea to say they all don't believe in a higher power. They are banned from any public worship. I was speaking in terms of secular countries where a lot of it's citizens are atheist. If the U.S ever said "You are no longer allowed to practice religion in this country". I would march side by side with Christians against that and would expect the same if Christianity was made a national religion, forcing it's citizens to subscribe to it.