Gay marriage: Episcopal Church OKs religious weddings

The majority of the largest Christian denominations do not accept homosexuality. Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, LCMS, LDS, Nazarene. The Church bodies that do accept homosexuality are rogue. The ELCA and the PCUSA are losing members in droves.

I'm not certain on that but regardless, in past centuries popular Christian denominations and many faithful Christians also accepted human slavery as being Biblically justified, so the popularity of a stance doesn't equate to the reasonability and virtue of it. Many anti-abolishinists were Christians who spoke vociferously about slavery and cited Biblical scriptures to insist that it was part of God's plan for humans. The Southern Baptist Church in particular has its genesis in the defense of slavery, for which they've apologized for in more recent years. Scripture was also widely used to denounce the suffragette movement and oppose women's rights. All denominations are lead by fallible humans, and all translations of Scriptures are also by fallible humans. It's why I want to study Scriptures and Biblical history for myself and formulate my beliefs through thoughtful deliberation.

GracetotheHumble said:

The majority of the largest Christian denominations do not accept homosexuality. Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, LCMS, LDS, Nazarene. The Church bodies that do accept homosexuality are rogue. The ELCA and the PCUSA are losing members in droves.

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Yup. And we lost the whole South over slavery in the mid 19th Cent. That's not how we make decisions. I think everyone knew there was going to be a cost to this.

Whoa...I got to the party late.
Are we saying, now, that God changed His mind about homosexuality?
Last I knew, the Bible called it an "abomination"...

Artemis97 said:

several denominations currently "do not accept homosexuality"

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No, it's not several denominations. The bulk of the Christian Church does not accept homosexuality. This is because they follow what the scriptures teach.

Actually it's quite the reverse of what you propose that is true. Only several denominations make allowances for homosexuals and most of those denominations are declining.

I grew up in an Episcopal church.
This, however, is reason enough for me not to go back.

TheBarrd said:

I grew up in an Episcopal church.
This, however, is reason enough for me not to go back.

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Most denominations who support homosexuality are losing members. The scriptures and homosexuality do not go hand in hand.

Most people who believe in the bible do not want to attend a church that supports homosexuality.

GracetotheHumble said:

No, it's not several denominations. The bulk of the Christian Church does not accept homosexuality. This is because they follow what the scriptures teach.

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Actually it's quite the reverse of what you propose that is true. Only several denominations make allowances for homosexuals and most of those denominations are declining.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you're miscomprehended my posts because I did not propose that the majority of denominations currently accept homosexuality. Several does not equate to the majority. The overall percentage of churches who presently accept homosexuality is not any more relevant to me than the overall percentage of denominations in America who accepted slavery based on their exegesis of Scripture in 1815, or who were opposed to women being afforded more rights in 1915. Understanding of Scriptures and religiously influenced cultural stances regarding topical issues have evolved throughout the ages as new knowledge has emerged about the original transcripts, reflections and interpretations have been made, and humanity has grown and progressed. I took a course last year about the history of biblical interpretation; how the Bible has been understood by theologians, writers, artists, scholars and others throughout the ages; why people read differently, and the consequences of that difference for religious history. I also audited a course that specifically studied the differences in the English translations of the Bible, and the ramifications of those significant differences. It's why I think it's really myopic to insist, as some on her have done, that a literal reading of the NIV or the KJV is the exclusive and immutable truth about God's will for us.

Christianity as a whole is declining, and one of the reasons why Millennials - the majority of whom are heterosexual - are leaving their childhood faith is because of its attitudes regarding homosexuality.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26/millennials-gay-unaffiliated-church-religion_n_4856094.html

1 Timothy 1:8-10
English Standard Version (ESV)
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine.

GracetotheHumble said:

1 Timothy 1:8-10
English Standard Version (ESV)
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine.

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Timothy and Corinthians are the same issue. They use a made up word which has never in classical literature referred to what it does now. I stand by my point, your beliefs are incorrect and throwing out random Bible verses you've never studied doesn't prove your argument.

Marius27 said:

What's your point? The original scripture never said that.

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Ahh...Yes it does. Different translations word it a little different but the meaning is the same.

The Word of God speaks for itself. You can't manipulate it's clear meaning. I'll let it stand on it's own. Homosexuality is an abomination and those who commit it will not be accepted by God. I'm going to leave it at that. God has spoken.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

redleghunter said:

News article excerpt below with link to full article.

Question: Can any Episcopal or Anglican posters here on Christian Forums explain how a denomination founded on Holy Scriptures and ancient church creeds and councils come to officially endorsing same sex marriage?



SALT LAKE CITY — The Episcopal Church has completed its embrace of gay rights, changing church law to allow same-sex religious marriages throughout the denomination, just days after the U.S. Supreme Court legalized gay marriage nationwide.
The new policy won overwhelming approval from the top Episcopal legislative body Wednesday, following decades of debate and conflict. It came 12 years after the denomination blazed a trail by electing the first openly gay bishop.

More here:

http://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2015/07/gay_marriage_episcopal_church.html

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Marius27 said:

Their opinion is meaningless. And the fact that they're changing verses to suit their anti-gay agenda, just disproves the argument that the Bible is inerrant or infallible. Its words are at the whim of any human who wishes to change it.

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It is a failed strategy to accuse all who reject pro-gay interpretations of the Bible of being anti-gay or hating homosexuals. A great many Christians who recognize the Bible condemns homosexual behavior actually support gay civil rights.

The only ones who promote pro-gay interpretations of the Bible have a pro-gay agenda.

Marius27 said:

Sorry, but you don't speak for God, the English Bible is not the Word of God, abomination doesn't exist in the original scripture and you commit numerous "abominations" that you ignore, and I don't consider your beliefs valid.

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Argue with this:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8441&t=KJV

ken777 said:

The only ones who promote pro-gay interpretations of the Bible have a pro-gay agenda.

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This is stereotyping. About half of mainline and Catholic Christians accept gays, more in the younger generations. I'm one of them. We're not all ideologues pushing some agenda. My concern as an elder is dealing pastorally with gay members, and with families that have gay relatives that they care about, not pushing some kind of gay political agenda. Your "literal" interpretation has been wrong on every major moral issues in the last 150 years.

hedrick said:

This is stereotyping. About half of mainline and Catholic Christians accept gays, more in the younger generations. I'm one of them. We're not all ideologues pushing some agenda. My concern as an elder is dealing pastorally with gay members, and with families that have gay relatives that they care about, not pushing some kind of gay political agenda.

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Stereotyping...or a general statement?

He also said that "It is a failed strategy to accuse all who reject pro-gay interpretations of the Bible of being anti-gay or hating homosexuals. A great many Christians who recognize the Bible condemns homosexual behavior actually support gay civil rights."

That doesn't sound particularly one-sided, does it?

Albion said:

Stereotyping...or a general statement?

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Albion said:

He also said that "It is a failed strategy to accuse all who reject pro-gay interpretations of the Bible of being anti-gay or hating homosexuals. A great many Christians who recognize the Bible condemns homosexual behavior actually support gay civil rights."

That doesn't sound particularly one-sided, does it?

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False general statements about a class of people is what stereotyping is.

I have only respect for conservative Christians. They are trying to follow Christ. They're just wrong.

hedrick said:

False general statements about a class of people is what stereotyping is.

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Ah, so "false" is the point of your comment. In that case, I have to disagree with you. Ken was right when he said "The only ones who promote pro-gay interpretations of the Bible have a pro-gay agenda."

Note that in your haste to denounce his comment, you changed the meaning of his words. He did not deny that there are Catholics who "support" gays. He said that the only ones who PROMOTE PRO-GAY INTERPRETATIONS OF THE BIBLE have a gay agenda." There may be a few people who are not described by that statement as it stands, but it's essentially true.

I have only respect for conservative Christians. They are trying to follow Christ. They're just wrong.

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You feel an obligation to represent your denomination, I recognize, and it reversed its moral compass a few months back. But that's no reason to make Ken your foil.