What does Catholicism have to do with Messianic Judaism????

Dave-W

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Saturday as a Jew.
Right. And God blessed a certain DAY as the Sabbath. So it is Saturday and cannot be changed from that. PERIOD.
With His death and resurrection we are no longer bound by the letter of the Law of Jews as believers in Jesus who set us free.
Except the Sabbath predates the Law by centuries. So even if you believe the Law is no longer in effect, The Sabbath is.

But I have a question: You write "... we are no longer bound by the letter of the Law of Jews;" If you are not a Jew, WHEN were you, as a gentile, EVER bound by the Law? You cannot say "no longer" to something that never was in effect in the first place.
 
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Dave-W

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No God never blessed a particular day as Sabbath.
Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

And since our Lord kept 'Saturday' as the Seventh day - that is the Day God blessed during creation.

There were godly people who were considered righteous even before the Law was given. There were godly people among Gentiles.
A few - yes.

God gave the letter of Law to begin with before sending the Son to explain the spirit of the Law.
But NOT to any of those gentiles. The Law was given ONLY to Israel.

As He said of the Sabbath: It is a sign between Me and the Sons of Israel forever. Not a sign with any gentiles - believers or otherwise.

Law has never disappeared.
True enough. But that still ONLY applies to Jews.
 
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Shimshon

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Saturday as a Jew. With His death and resurrection we are no longer bound by the letter of the Law of Jews as believers in Jesus who set us free.
So our Messiah came and set us free from following the Law? The very instructions that were to make us a unique and special people, THE people of God, the God of Yisrael. But he sent his savior who came and took away that uniqueness and place in God which he promised beforehand? We aren't bound to it, we are created through it, the same as Messiah was. Born a Jew, not forsaking the law, but fulfilling it within us. You act as if you believe that since Messiah came Jews are no longer bound to follow the Torah which God gave us. We are 'free' from it? May I never be free from the Torah God gave us! May it be realized through the Spirit he has blessed us with!
 
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Shimshon

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No God never blessed a particular day as Sabbath. He has clearly indicated that it should be seventh day after six days of work.
Yes, he did. Leviticus 23, read it. Quote it and try to make your point. You can't. God gave us not only that day but he gave us our whole calendar. He told us the exact day to start the year, and then gave us exact days to come and worship him. It's called the mo'edim, the times we meet with God, personally. The Sabbath is the beginning of the list. It's the weekly meeting time. What you seem to be doing again is removing Yisrael from the picture. We are not free to change the times and days God commanded us to be with him. It's like telling your wife that since you reached your 50th anniversary you don't have to have to celebrate it any longer. You can do it any day you want. Fact remains that the day it was made holy did not change. Because you can't change what is not meant to change. And Yisrael as a holy people to God is what was promised and God will not repent from his promises. His words are like rock. They do not move.

There were godly people who were considered righteous even before the Law was given. There were godly people among Gentiles. God gave the letter of Law to begin with before sending the Son to explain the spirit of the Law.
And God called Abraham out of the nations to be a holy and unique people. God made a nation out of the nations, and called them/us His own possession. Again you seem to be completely writing off Yisrael as God's people, as promised.

Law has never disappeared. As believers in Christ, we need to keep the spirit of the Law which is more difficult to observe. For example: letter of the Law says: don't kill; however, the spirit of the Law demands that you should not even think of killing! That is what is meant by fulfilling the Law. Only Jesus fulfilled the letter of the Law; we may continue to fail in keeping up the spirit of the Law.
I find this a miserable existence, to be called to something you can never attain. You write off the law in the name of the Spirit, then claim you can't even live as the Spirit calls you to.

The Holy Spirit that God has placed in us jealously longs for us to be faithful. He gives us strength to stand against such evil desires. (James)

The Spirit has made us holy. As a result, we have obeyed Yeshua the Messiah and are cleansed by his blood. So be truly glad! There is wonderful joy ahead, even though it is necessary for us to endure many trials for a while. These trials are only to test our faith, to show that it is strong and pure. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold, yet far more precious to God than mere gold. If our faith remains strong after being tried, it will bring us much praise and glory and honor on the day when Yeshua the Messiah is revealed to the world. So think clearly and exercise self-control. Look forward to the return of Yeshua the Messiah.

But now we must be holy in everything we do, just as God, who chose us to be his children is holy. We must be holy because God is holy. We have sincere love for each other because we were cleansed from our sins when we accepted the truth about Yeshua the Messiah. Do not forget that God has cleansed us from our old life of sin. Everything around us is going to vanish but what is holy. So what holy, godly lives we should be living! And while we are waiting for this to happen, we should make every effort to live a pure and blameless life. And be at peace with God. (Peter) 1 Peter 1:2,1 Peter 1:6-7,1 Peter 1:13,1 Peter 1:15-16,1 Peter 1:22,2 Peter 1:9,2 Peter 3:11,2 Peter 3:14

2 Peter 1:9

3 God's power has given us everything we need for life and godliness, through our knowing the One who called us to his own glory and goodness.
4 By these he has given us valuable and superlatively great promises, so that through them you might come to share in God's nature and escape the corruption which evil desires have brought into the world.
5 For this very reason, try your hardest to furnish your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge,
6 knowledge with self-control, self-control with perseverance, perseverance with godliness,
7 godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
8 For if you have these qualities in abundance, they keep you from being barren and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
9 Indeed, whoever lacks them is blind, so shortsighted that he forgets that his past sins have been washed away.

10 Therefore, brothers, try even harder to make your being called and chosen a certainty. For if you keep doing this, you will never stumble.
11 Thus you will be generously supplied with everything you need to enter the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Deliverer, Yeshua the Messiah.
12 For this reason, I will always remind you about these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you already have.
13 And I consider it right to keep stirring you up with reminders, as long as I am in the tent of this body.
14 I know that I will soon lay aside this tent of mine, as our Lord Yeshua the Messiah has made clear to me.
15 And I will do my best to see that after my exodus, you will be able to remember these things at all times.
16 For when we made known to you the power and the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, we did not rely on cunningly contrived myths. On the contrary, we saw his majesty with our own eyes.
17 For we were there when he received honor and glory from God the Father; and the voice came to him from the grandeur of the Sh'khinah, saying, "This is my son, whom I love; I am well pleased with him!"
18 We heard this voice come out of heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain.
19 Yes, we have the prophetic Word made very certain. You will do well to pay attention to it as to a light shining in a dark, murky place, until the Day dawns and the Morning Star rises in your hearts.
20 First of all, understand this: no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own;
21 for never has a prophecy come as a result of human willing - on the contrary, people moved by the Ruach HaKodesh spoke a message from God.​

No prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own........ You are removing Yisrael from her place, and interpreting the Scripture (Law and Prophets) by your own. Teaching that you can be free from that which was used to create us, and twisting it to fit your own form of theology. Namely, reformed replacement theology.
 
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visionary

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Saturday as a Jew. With His death and resurrection we are no longer bound by the letter of the Law of Jews as believers in Jesus who set us free.
Did Yeshua free you from His Law which He gave to you for the righteous obedient life in Him?
 
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Righttruth

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Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

And since our Lord kept 'Saturday' as the Seventh day - that is the Day God blessed during creation.

That was tradition of the day keeping up with the letter of the Law. One should not forget the spirit behind keeping the Sabbath: seventh day after six days of work.


But NOT to any of those gentiles. The Law was given ONLY to Israel.

Yes, to the chosen people.

As He said of the Sabbath: It is a sign between Me and the Sons of Israel forever. Not a sign with any gentiles - believers or otherwise.

Judaism did not become a dead end. Jesus came to explain the spiritual understanding and the will of God.

True enough. But that still ONLY applies to Jews.

I am not bothered about the religious beliefs of Jews. I am looking forward to a glorious future through Christ of eternal life.
 
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Open Heart

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That is what I am saying. Any day after six days of work for a group of people that gather to worship.
You are wrong. It has to be the correct day, the people have to seek the truth, not convenience. You're "I'll obey what is easy for me" approach to the law is not MY approach.
 
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Open Heart

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Saturday as a Jew. With His death and resurrection we are no longer bound by the letter of the Law of Jews as believers in Jesus who set us free.
I'm a believer who is also a Jew. I keep the Sabbath. And I keep it on the seventh day. Not just one out of every seven days.
 
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Righttruth

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You are wrong. It has to be the correct day, the people have to seek the truth, not convenience. You're "I'll obey what is easy for me" approach to the law is not MY approach.

For a believer in Jesus, everyday is a correct and good day! Moses followed a typical understanding of the day of what is first and what is last in a week as per the tradition. Please show me where God said that Sabbath falls on Saturday.
 
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Righttruth

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Why are you people arguing with this guy who obviously has no clue and should have been reported for breaking the sub-forum rules?
He is here to promote his view, not to learn.

So, I am out of this thread. Good day and God bless!
 
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Open Heart

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For a believer in Jesus, everyday is a correct and good day! Moses followed a typical understanding of the day of what is first and what is last in a week as per the tradition. Please show me where God said that Sabbath falls on Saturday.
Excuse me but *I* AM a believer in Jesus and every day is NOT the correct day. In Ancient Hebrew Culture, the NAMES of the days were NUMBERS. Thus, the NAME for the seventh day was SEVENTH. During the time of the Romans, the Hebraic SEVENTH day was the same day as Saturn's Day, or what we today would call Saturday.
 
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Righttruth

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Excuse me but *I* AM a believer in Jesus and every day is NOT the correct day. In Ancient Hebrew Culture, the NAMES of the days were NUMBERS. Thus, the NAME for the seventh day was SEVENTH. During the time of the Romans, the Hebraic SEVENTH day was the same day as Saturn's Day, or what we today would call Saturday.

Matthew 12
1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
 
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Dave-W

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RT - what you have in the passage you quote from Matt 12 is a Rabbinic construction for dealing with situations where Mosaic commands come into conflict. With a few exceptions all negative commands are trumped by positive commands. In this case the command to save and preserve life trumped the command forbidding work on the Sabbath. (and that sidesteps the question whether what they did actually constituted the work of harvesting)

Since our Lord invoked that, it puts divine authority behind the rabbinic construct.
 
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Righttruth

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RT - what you have in the passage you quote from Matt 12 is a Rabbinic construction for dealing with situations where Mosaic commands come into conflict. With a few exceptions all negative commands are trumped by positive commands. In this case the command to save and preserve life trumped the command forbidding work on the Sabbath. (and that sidesteps the question whether what they did actually constituted the work of harvesting)

Since our Lord invoked that, it puts divine authority behind the rabbinic construct.

John 8
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 
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Open Heart

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Matthew 12
1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
None of this refutes a thing I said.
 
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