Is it really necessary to confess and repent all sin?

Is it not more a case of why we sin ? What lies behind our gluttony etc ? What's the root cause of our falling into sin ?

We know what the ideal is and surely if we miss that and take it to our Confessor , express sorrow and receive some advice as to how to avoid these times when we miss the mark , and then Receive Absolution , then we can make a new start.

I do think some sins are worse than others; that being said, confession and repentance leaves no tally of transgressions. Those that have sinned much, love much.

Never try to justify even the smallest of sins - since they often fester and grow. 'Smaller' sins still show the taint of the heart and mind, so always be sure to repent.

Consider Gods goodness to not hold us accountable for our sins, while remembering the good we do.

First, I don't accept the idea that "all sins are equal." Such an idea taken to its logical conclusion is frightening. Some sins are clearly worse than others.

Second, repentance is inherent to living as a Christian. We all sin, daily, & that's why we need forgiveness. Ideally, if a particular sin is affecting me worse than another, I should be working to change direction, with God's help. I think I would go crazy, however, if I obsessed over every thought & deed individually. In the Episcopal Church, we corporately confess our sins, without naming every last specific possibility, & trust in God's grace to forgive us.

Welcome to CF!

What a great question!


Sin - is "missing the mark". So it's not that there are many sins today - it's that the standard is very high - Christ Himself.

Even the holiest of people "sin" constantly, in the sense that they fall short of what Christ Himself might do. The irony is that the less sinful we become, the more we see our sins.

But it sounds like you're talking about the other end of the spectrum - just dismissing certain things as not being important enough to ask forgiveness. I don't agree with that mindset, as it begins to excuse ourselves, and that is not good. HOWEVER ... we don't even know all of our sins. It's not as though God is waiting for us to forget one of them. Our daily prayers can include requests for God to forgive sins we have forgotten, don't recognize, etc. We should try to reflect on the ones that prick our conscience so we can get to the root of those and be healed, but there's nothing wrong with asking forgiveness of sins we forget or fail to recognize.

Welcome, AdamE!
Fortunately I did not get my preferred name (that I use on most other websites) of "Adam", so our posts on the same thread will be less likely to get confused.
Yes, I was a "wannabe" Eastern Orthodox in 1964, but I found Roman Catholicism more inclusive at that time.
Yes, we males understand that anger, lust, envy are so much a part of our nature that we, at least, can't risk obsessing like Martin Luther (the founder of my denomination) did. Don't sweat the small stuff. Females may love to do that, but for males to do it is going to have bad consequences, like depression (like me in 1979 trying to live the Prayer of St. Francis, "Make me an instrument of they peace... Where there is hatred let me bring your love..." etc.), neurosis, indecision, getting fired, getting "run over", etc. All the more important for males to take seriously bigger sins, as we males seem almost infinitely capable of ignoring or even glorying in.

Korah said:

Welcome, AdamE!
Fortunately I did not get my preferred name (that I use on most other websites) of "Adam", so our posts on the same thread will be less likely to get confused.
Yes, I was a "wannabe" Eastern Orthodox in 1964, but I found Roman Catholicism more inclusive at that time.
Yes, we males understand that anger, lust, envy are so much a part of our nature that we, at least, can't risk obsessing like Martin Luther (the founder of my denomination) did. Don't sweat the small stuff. Females may love to do that, but for males to do it is going to have bad consequences, like depression (like me in 1979 trying to live the Prayer of St. Francis, "Make me an instrument of they peace... Where there is hatred let me bring your love..." etc.), neurosis, indecision, getting fired, getting "run over", etc. All the more important for males to take seriously bigger sins, as we males seem almost infinitely capable of ignoring or even glorying in.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting take. When I read texts by monks, the Saints, those who are teaching spiritual advancement, etc. - they are nearly always male, and they always advise taking careful stock of one's spiritual state, not ignoring "the small stuff". Though admittedly, such texts are not suitable for people who have not made a certain degree of progress, who might not make a distinction between monastic and "in the world" piety, or who might be scrupulous, etc.

From Martin Luther's Small Catechism:

V. Confession

How Christians should be taught to confess.

What is Confession?*

Confession embraces two parts: the one is, that we confess our sins; the other, that we receive absolution, or forgiveness, from the confessor, as from God Himself, and in no wise doubt, but firmly believe, that our sins are thereby forgiven before God in heaven.

What sins should we confess?

Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even of those which we do not know, as we do in the Lord's Prayer. But before the confessor we should confess those sins alone which we know and feel in our hearts.

Which are these?

Here consider your station according to the Ten Commandments, whether you are a father, mother, son, daughter, master, mistress, a man-servant or maid-servant; whether you have been disobedient, unfaithful, slothful; whether you have grieved any one by words or deeds; whether you have stolen, neglected, or wasted aught, or done other injury.

Pray, Propose to Me a Brief Form of Confession.

Answer.

You should speak to the confessor thus: Reverend and dear sir, I beseech you to hear my confession, and to pronounce forgiveness to me for God's sake.

Proceed!

I, a poor sinner, confess myself before God guilty of all sins; especially I confess before you that I am a man-servant, a maidservant, etc. But, alas, I serve my master unfaithfully; for in this and in that I have not done what they commanded me; I have provoked them, and caused them to curse, have been negligent [in many things] and permitted damage to be done; have also been immodest in words and deeds, have quarreled with my equals, have grumbled and sworn at my mistress, etc. For all this I am sorry, and pray for grace; I want to do better.

A master or mistress may say thus:

In particular I confess before you that I have not faithfully trained my children, domestics, and wife [family] for God's glory. I have cursed, set a bad example by rude words and deeds, have done my neighbor harm and spoken evil of him, have overcharged and given false ware and short measure.

And whatever else he has done against God's command and his station, etc.

But if any one does not find himself burdened with such or greater sins, he should not trouble himself or search for or invent other sins, and thereby make confession a torture, but mention one or two that he knows. Thus: In particular I confess that I once cursed; again, I once used improper words, I have once neglected this or that, etc. Let this suffice.

But if you know of none at all (which, however is scarcely possible), then mention none in particular, but receive the forgiveness upon your general confession which you make before God to the confessor.

Then shall the confessor say:

God be merciful to thee and strengthen thy faith! Amen.

Furthermore:

Dost thou believe that my forgiveness is God's forgiveness?

Answer.

Yes, dear sir.

Then let him say:

As thou believest, so be it done unto thee. And by the command of our Lord Jesus Christ I forgive thee thy sins, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Depart in peace.

But those who have great burdens upon their consciences, or are distressed and tempted, the confessor will know how to comfort and to encourage to faith with more passages of Scripture. This is to be merely a general form of confession for the unlearned.

I believe that it is prudent to confess all the sins that you can remember at the time. I think though one thing you have to be careful about is not falling into scrupulosity, in that you start thinking that everything you do that isn't church related is sinful. Concerning your examples there is nothing wrong with relaxing on the couch, all of us need rest. If we keep going full speed ahead and stay busy from sunrise to sunset, you will eventually burn yourself out; thus our bodies need rest that are outside of just sleeping.

Concerning food, yes it is better to eat in moderation no doubt, but there is nothing wrong with occasionally eating until you are full, especially when your mom is telling you to eat everything on your plate! But if you start to see a trend in your life that you are constantly eating excessively then this is where you start to move into it being a sinful act.

Concerning seeing a young woman or man walking down the street. If you admire a woman for the beauty that God has bestowed upon here, that isn't lust. Lust occurs when you start thinking beyond that point. There are beautiful women and men everywhere on this planet, and there is nothing wrong with admiring that beauty, for all beauty comes from God. When it goes wrong and becomes sinful is when you start viewing that person as a sex object, that is when it goes wrong. Now granted if lust is a fault that you struggle with (it is mine) then it would be prudent perhaps to quickly steer your eyes away from a beautiful woman, before other thoughts enter your mind.

Anyway, I know that there are a couple of differences in approach to the sacrament of Penance between the East and the West, but for the most part the only sins you have to confess are mortal ones, but it is highly recommended to confess all venial sins that you can remember as well, for you receive grace from God to help you overcome these temptations. But if there are sins that you cannot remember, then don't worry; at the moment of absolution, all sins are forgiven, even those you did not confess because you couldn't remember them. Of course if later you remember them, it would be prudent to confess that sin as well, at the next time you go to confession; not for the forgiveness, as you have already received that; but for the counseling you can receive from your priest.

I think part of this question is theoretical and part is very practical. In order to overcome sins or even sinful tendencies, we have to name them for what they are and resolve to overcome them in some sense. We can't be really open to the spiritual or even physical healing that God offers otherwise. From God's perspective on the other hand - we don't need to do anything to have him offer that to us - it is offered, it is there all around us. His love pours out constantly, but if we don't recognize that we need that medicine, it won't do us much good.

But - yes, very often there are many individual things that we do each day that are imperfect. Many of them we could never pinpoint - do I eat a little more than I should, or am I ok - how would we know this down to the last bite? We could not, but we are lucky that God does. So if we keep about us a sense of ourselves as being in need of help - partly by keeping tabs on where we know we go wrong - we can try to be open to help with those as well. And in any case sins aren't really so compartmentalized - as we are healed of ones we know, others may improve as well, or simply become more obvious to us.

The danger I think of scrupulosity is that it suggests that God has to do something different than what he is already doing, and we have to act to make him. It's a this-for-that. I confess and then God will grant forgiveness. So it misunderstands Gods nature. And it can also come out of, or lead to, trust issues, as if God is out to get you unless you do something incredibly tricky and maybe impossible.

I think practically the best thing for most people is to set aside time daily to reflect on where we stand with these things, but with the confidence that God's work has already been accomplished because he wants us to succeed. Mostly people are going to want to concentrate on the more serious types of problems they have - that might mean "big" sins but it could also mean smaller ones that begin to really affect our lives. For this reason I think the practice of listing mortal and venial sins is often not the most useful. It always reminds me of the Screwtape letters, where Screwtape tells his nephew that small sins can take people to hell just as effectively as bigger ones, and often without them even knowing - he is referring specifically to an instance about an old lady who is picky about food, which seems a very small sort of sin. I think a better plan is usually to make a point of considering issues that seem to be taking up space in your life.

Perhaps, the issue is more about the need to name all sin. I believe that we should certainly confess all sins in our nightly/daily prayer. IMHO, this is the tradition of the Church.

If we are discussing only sacramental confession, then I guess my view is that I don't want to comment on such a legalistic "need".

Jesus rarely talked about sin, except for how it is forgiven. He talked a lot about obedience. I think there's a subtle difference. I don’t see much sign in his teaching of the kind of focus on rooting out every sin that I see among some Christians. Jesus was more concerned about bearing fruit. Look at what his many parables and teachings about judgement condemned people for. It was not the kind of sin that the OP seems to be concerned with.

Of course sins can be significant barriers to faith, and they can also represent offenses against others. So we do have to deal with them. But still, an obsessive concern about sin can cause people to focus on themselves, rather than God and others. I would think that sin would matter as it becomes a barrier to obeying Christ, and that should be the focus, rather than some kind of drive for personal purity (a concept that is more characteristic of the Pharisees than of Jesus).

In principle, we have to repent. But this can become a problem. Luther is the classic example. A legalistic worry that if we forget anything we’re doomed doesn’t seem to be what Jesus had in mind. I’m also convinced that most people have sins that they don’t recognize, and even some that they are in denial about. Yet, still, we are expected to be accountable to Christ as our Lord, and serve him.

graceandpeace said:

First, I don't accept the idea that "all sins are equal." Such an idea taken to its logical conclusion is frightening. Some sins are clearly worse than others.

Click to expand...

I would say that all sins are weighed equally when judged against us. However, us being human, we measure sin by a legalistic view. Obviously, murder would be worse than stealing because you are taking a life, killing someone, but stealing is essentially harmless and hurts no one in the process. At least that's how I have viewed it.

Anhelyna said:

Is it not more a case of why we sin ? What lies behind our gluttony etc ? What's the root cause of our falling into sin ?

We know what the ideal is and surely if we miss that and take it to our Confessor , express sorrow and receive some advice as to how to avoid these times when we miss the mark , and then Receive Absolution , then we can make a new start.

Click to expand...

That is one of the aspects I really appreciate about the Orthodox (and Byzantine Catholic) perspective of confession. Each of our sins is indicative of something deeper. For example, yelling at my coworkers unfairly: it may not be as bad as killing someone in our minds, but it may indicate a propensity towards anger or losing one's temper. This can be just as strong of a deviation from our path towards our salvation as a murder can be. When you consider the reason for sins, it helps us address the real problem areas. Our confessor helps us learn how to treat that sickness caused by that underlying sin, so that we can - with the grace of God - move past those sins. What does this mean in confession? Sometimes I confess specific sins, as our priest asks at the beginning of confession, that are burdening my heart. We also confess the areas of sin that we are struggling with on a regular or occasional basis. In the context of your questions, I would say that you should repent daily and then confess your struggles in the sacrament of Confession.

Reformed (at least some of us) tend to emphasize “sin,” not “sins.” That is, what causes problems between us and God isn’t the specific actions so much as our alienation from (or to be honest, opposition to) God. If we view God as a cosmic score-keeper, then we get into whether or not he weights sins the same. But I don’t think that’s the right understanding.

Sins do clearly have different levels of significance for the people around us. As Christians who love our neighbors, we should naturally want to prioritize dealing with attitudes and actions that cause the most damage to our neighbors. Not because only “mortal” sins will damn us, but because of our love for neighbor.

hedrick said:

Reformed (at least some of us) tend to emphasize “sin,” not “sins.” That is, what causes problems between us and God isn’t the specific actions so much as our alienation from (or to be honest, opposition to) God. If we view God as a cosmic score-keeper, then we get into whether or not he weights sins the same. But I don’t think that’s the right understanding.

Sins do clearly have different levels of significance for the people around us. As Christians who love our neighbors, we should naturally want to prioritize dealing with attitudes and actions that cause the most damage to our neighbors. Not because only “mortal” sins will damn us, but because of our love for neighbor.

Click to expand...

I just want to say that the Orthodox point of view certainly isn't about God as a scorekeeper. Very far from it.

The analogy of sin as a sickness is helpful in making the distinction. Particular sins can be a symptom of something deeper, and during Confession we hope to receive appropriate medicine to address the sickness, more than anything. It's about being healed as a person, becoming like Christ as a result - not ticking off sins on a scorecard in any quantifiable sense.

Isn't the idea of "sin" as some kind of abstract alienation from God a way of avoiding the specifics of one's own failings and one's own specific sins thus freeing one's self from any need to confess any specific sins even when those specific sins are known and troubling one's soul? Surely specific sins matter being, as they are, the embodiment of the principle of alienation from God (and essentially hatred towards him)?

Please do me a favor, by PM if you wish. Please provide a text or texts of what your current theology 9and perhaps practices)of Calvinism and which Presbyterian churches adhere to this view. I ask this because on many occasions your posts seem consistent with Traditional Christianity, and Calvin's teachings, and much less consistent with anything I have heard from Calvinists of the last century.

I would also appreciate a source for the differences between this view and those of the so-called uber Calvinists (who, for me, don't teach what Calvin taught).

hedrick said:

Reformed (at least some of us) tend to emphasize “sin,” not “sins.” That is, what causes problems between us and God isn’t the specific actions so much as our alienation from (or to be honest, opposition to) God. If we view God as a cosmic score-keeper, then we get into whether or not he weights sins the same. But I don’t think that’s the right understanding.

Sins do clearly have different levels of significance for the people around us. As Christians who love our neighbors, we should naturally want to prioritize dealing with attitudes and actions that cause the most damage to our neighbors. Not because only “mortal” sins will damn us, but because of our love for neighbor.

Click to expand...

Please see my recent post http://www.christianforums.com/thre...den-and-the-fall.7905691/page-3#post-68595142.

There are several official sources for PCUSA doctrine. I believe the major Presbyterian groups in other English-speaking countries have similar views, though some have joined "Uniting" churches and may no longer be identified as Presbyterian.

The most detailed recent (1977) statement is the Declaration of Faith: http://www.creeds.net/reformed/PCUSA1985/1985-int.htm. However it doesn't have full confessional status.

For something confessional, see the Confession of 1967: http://www.creeds.net/reformed/conf67.htm. It doesn't cover as wide a range of topics as the Declaration.

The PCUSA web site is also very useful, though it's hard to find the good stuff.

hedrick said:

But still, an obsessive concern about sin can cause people to focus on themselves, rather than God and others.

Click to expand...

I have heard this be called ''navel gazing". I think the term is rather descriptive.

hedrick said:

Sins do clearly have different levels of significance for the people around us. As Christians who love our neighbors, we should naturally want to prioritize dealing with attitudes and actions that cause the most damage to our neighbors. Not because only “mortal” sins will damn us, but because of our love for neighbor.

Click to expand...

Amen.
And because we know this is how we show that we truly love God.