The Hobbit: Does It Both Address Diaspora 4 Religious Groups while Sterotyping Them

Gxg (G²)

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...the British Empire was built on racism. However, whether modern movies need to reflect that racism is another question. .
Came to my mind recently - in reflecting on the issue - that the European Dominance in literature is widespread - that it's ironic when African writers from a European background get their work transformed into being something it wasn't.

In example, as the late British scholar and writer C.S. Lewis once stated, “Literature adds to reality, it does not simply describe it. It enriches the necessary competencies that daily life requires and provides; and in this respect, it irrigates the deserts that our lives have already become.”

The course of human history has shown where humanity has been blessed to explore beautiful expressions of excellent writers such as Herman Melville, Leo Tolstoy, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Virginia Woolf, Robert Frost, Pablo Neruda, George Santayana, Frantz Fanon, T.S. Eliot, Anton Chekhov, Walt Whitman and Jhumpa Lahiri amongst many others - and yet oftentimes, rich literary treasures are not associated with writers of African descent, despite where objective evidence has shown and continues to denote that some of the world’s finest books have evolved from the minds of black authors.

Alexandre Dumas, writer extraordinaire - of "The Three Muskateers" and "The Man in the Iron Mask" as well as "The Count of Monte Cristo" (of which everyone remembers Jim Cavizel's 2002 performance ...although the book was better by far). ......Dumas comes immediately to mind.....despite how ironic it is that others get shocked when considering that he was black and others say no black presentation of the characters could ever occur to be faithful to his work.



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Concerning literature and the reality of how much ethic presentations make a diffence...

I was talking to my cousin on the books called "The Hunger Games" - brilliant series in what it sought to represent with addressing the reality of violence and how often it is used wrongly as well as driven by entertainment - with no one benefiting from it in the end (more shared here and here)- and I was curious as to whether or not anyone happened to catch what occurred in "The Hunger Games" when it came to the novel showing the character of Rue as dark skinned and others got offended in the movie with her accurate depiction because they didn't want to see her as such?

The same thing goes for the character of Cinna - who was the stylist of the main character..... played by Lenny Kravitz....and who was assigned to Katniss Everdeen (the main character in the series), the young, female “tribute” from District 12 who has been selected to fight to the death along with 23 other teenagers in the yearly government enforced Hunger Games....75 year old games exist as a reminder of a long past attempt at rebellion against the totalitarian regime who rules over the imagined nation of Panem and warning to never again test the scope of the Capitol’s power. Cinna is responsible for dressing Katniss so that she makes an impression on the citizens of the Capitol in the hopes that those with the means will “sponsor” her in the games – i.e. provide much needed food, water, medicine and weapons to increase her chances of survival...and Cinna used his artwork/imagery to challenge institutional systems when they were corrupt in subtle ways.

People were offended at the way the film portrayed the characters - even though one of them was directly noted to be of dark complexion/black and the other had NOTHING in his description that'd prevent him from being seen as black....and yet, due to the way others wanted to see it, they went even past that.

To them, it was an issue of having problems with dominant characters not being dark - and that saddens me.

More here and here/here /here at Rue Is Black And Racism Is Still An Issue - HelloGiggles


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pf7jqCA-rQ



 
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GxG said:
In example, as the late British scholar and writer C.S. Lewis once stated, “Literature adds to reality, it does not simply describe it. It enriches the necessary competencies that daily life requires and provides; and in this respect, it irrigates the deserts that our lives have already become.”

I'd be lying if I said I was a fan of C.S. Lewis. His Narnia-novels are ham-fisted Christian allegories that struck me as rather clumsy even when I was a precocious ten-year-old. His literary criticism does not live up to scholarly standards and revolves more around personal sentiment than (con)textual analysis. And his theology... oh my, do not get me started on his theology. If you ever want textbook examples of confirmation bias and question-begging, just turn to Lewis's "non-fiction".
The man is vastly overrated in virtually every respect, and I marvel at his continued popularity.

However, all of that said, I like this particular quote - and am glad that I've finally found something to like about the man, apart from him being the inspiration for Tolkien's Treebeard.

As someone whose existence is devoted to literature, and who had to defend the passionate pursuit of such a "breadless art" as literary and cultural studies against more practically-minded people, I share and echo Lewis's sentiment, and would even expand it.

If language is the vehicle by which a culture transports and disseminates its distinct outlook and value system, then literature is the place where this instrument can be transmuted, re-shaped and critically examined.

Unfortunately, few cultures are genuine reading cultures these days, and the transformative magic of language is not primarily worked by inspired artists, but by advertisers and corporate news companies who know exactly how to keep the general public in line, never thinking out of the box.
 
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However, all of that said, I like this particular quote - and am glad that I've finally found something to like about the man, apart from him being the inspiration for Tolkien's Treebeard.

I hadn't heard that one before. How was he the inspiration for Treebeard?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Gxg (G²)

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You of course mean THE DESOLATION OF CUMBERBATCH which is the title everyone in my social circle calls it by lol. I'm stoked.

I read the thread but don't have much to contribute at this moment.

Yes indeed, it's the desolation of Cumberbatch - one of the BEST actors/voice artists ever :):cool:

Cool if you don't have anything to add to the thread thus far...
 
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I saw this past weekend and loved it. I might have to post on this thread later.
Smaug was truly a representation of Imperialism at its finest ....that, or colonialism

The dialogues are priceless and I'm amazed at how much they did an amazing job making the most real dragon ever on screen - one that was actually believable ..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke9iPAaMR3Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05pDYZOhZLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaNmfjGm9VY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SWMmxGiwgQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrIREFgYPyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LDiJK4W-w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5S-z5LwaGg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTUotNjhYeI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2u-KFfQ830
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pwELWzbkuo
 
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Finally watched "The Hobbit: Battle of 5 Armies" and I must say that it was impressive in the way things concluded. The racial aspect of love between Elves and Dwarves was noteworthy in what it symbolized. As said there:


From a broad perspective, the five armies represent five warring races, four of which (humans, elves, dwarves, and the animals/eagles) must learn to work together if they will defeat the fifth (orcs).Each race has its own agenda in the story and defends its own people, but when they all face a common enemy, they unite under a single agenda: survival.But the story doesn’t stop there, because unity and crushing racism isn’t just about survival.
TaurielKili.jpg
Bringing it down to a micro-story level, the relationship between Tauriel and Kili shows that acceptance between races is also about love.With the elves and dwarves at odds for generations over who would possess those precious white jewels, each race had built up a culture of hatred toward the other. What’s worse, they had practically lost sight of why, since Smaug had the jewels most of the time anyway.Nevertheless, the hatred was rekindled when Thorin (dwarf) denied Thranduil (elven king) those precious jewels at the mountain.But Tauriel and Legolas (elves) showed a different side of racism in their treatment of Kili (dwarf), one that proved love could exist between races. For Tauriel, it was romantic love for Kili, and for Legolas, it was respect and honor for a person of good character.Both Tauriel and Legolas refused to leave the dwarves in their hour of need because of their love and respect for Kili.

Of course, outside of that, I was glad to see that Smaug's death was amazing - and that the development of Azog's death was amazing in symbolizing the defeat of imperialistic powers (symbolized by the Orcs in their fight to wipe out the Dwarves line/keep them from re-establishing their homeland).






The-Hobbit-BOFA-e1415322572247-980x378.jpg


The-Battle-of-the-Five-Armies-tapestry-part-3.jpg
 
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Sadly, the final installment confirmed my suspicions that the source material could not possibly lend itself to three epic-length films. It was a HUGE disappointment to me on almost too many levels to count. The sets felt almost as artificial as those of the Star Wars prequels, the Master's assistant-as-comic-relief was almost as painfully unfunny as Jar Jar Binks, and the fight scenes had an unfortunate video game aesthetic that ruined even the creep factor of the ringwraiths. A bunch of extras in hoods slowly raising their swords in unison made more of an impression than the high-speed ghosts of "H- BoFA", even though they probably cost one-tenth of what we saw here.

I had dared to hope after "Desolation of Smaug", which was surprisingly good and promised more of the same. Instead, we were treated to a whole lot of filler, trolls fighting in broad daylight, tacked-on love stories so flimsy you could cut them with a straw, and wagonloads of lifeless CGI.
 
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Sadly, the final installment confirmed my suspicions that the source material could not possibly lend itself to three epic-length films. It was a HUGE disappointment to me on almost too many levels to count. The sets felt almost as artificial as those of the Star Wars prequels, the Master's assistant-as-comic-relief was almost as painfully unfunny as Jar Jar Binks, and the fight scenes had an unfortunate video game aesthetic that ruined even the creep factor of the ringwraiths. A bunch of extras in hoods slowly raising their swords in unison made more of an impression than the high-speed ghosts of "H- BoFA", even though they probably cost one-tenth of what we saw here.

I had dared to hope after "Desolation of Smaug", which was surprisingly good and promised more of the same. Instead, we were treated to a whole lot of filler, trolls fighting in broad daylight, tacked-on love stories so flimsy you could cut them with a straw, and wagonloads of lifeless CGI.
Minus the gig with the Master's assistant being over-the-top in craziness (although I did crack up at several points), I honestly liked both the sets and the fight scenes - and yes, the Ringwraiths did feel a bit more quick during the fights like in a video game, but it was still cool. Seeing the hoods slowly raising their swords from the original LOTR Saga, I wasn't really wanting to see more of the same and appreciated a differing dynamic with actually showing the high-speed ghosts. I really liked seeing these Old World characters from the time of Morgoth (Sauron is one of his servants) express their superior power for once, as it concerns Galadriel who is awe-inspiring and powerful, Elrond with his fighting routine with the Nazgul and Saruman adding into things.

I also HIGHLY enjoyed seeing high elves as represented by the development of Thranduil, when he comes to reclaim his family heirlooms from the Lonely Mountain and his beautiful army lines up in front of the dwarves. And with the ways that the dwarves go to war, it was very beautiful to see how things line up:




War%2BPig.jpg

wikia-visualization-mainhobbitarmies.png


But the political landscape is what stood out to me on the issue. As one person said best:


Biblical Allusions Speaking of second-comings, I’ve said elsewhere, that I believe the 12 dwarves are metaphors for the Diaspora Twelve Tribes of Israel (see here Are The Hobbit Dwarves Jewish? and here (3) The Hobbit’s 13 Dwarves). It has long been argued back and forth about the allegorical nature of LoTR. As evidence for this claim there is: a massive shofar blown at the end and the dwarves ride rams, so its all Passover and the festival of the Scapegoat. Lust for gold, seeking a new home, a small people but loyal and hardy, fighting a “Red Dragon”…it’s all here (see The Real Red Smaug. Christmas Genocide in Iraq. I Attend an Arabic Service). There is also (the coincidence?) that Hobbit 3 is released during Hanukkah season.

You have to remember that Tolkien wrote Hobbit about a decade before the Jews of the Holocaust reclaimed a homeland (modern Israel) but during the political period of the Balfour Declaration and Churchill’s advocacy for Jews. I think Tolkien was conscious of this when crafting Thorin’s quest for his “little people.”



Also, As said there:



“One day I’ll remember; remember everything that happened: the good , the bad, those who survived…and those that did not.”

While “Battle” isn’t without its share of issues, it manages to outdo its predecessors in both thematic depth and stylistic execution, and ultimately emerges as the prefatory chapter “LOTR” deserved all along.

In a breathtaking opening sequence that really should’ve served as a climax for “Desolation,” the mighty dragon Smaug is slain. The Dwarven adventurers – and lords in exile – successfully retake their home kingdom and its vast hoard of treasure. It soon becomes clear, however, that Dwarf king Thorin (Richard Armitage) has no intention of allocating some of the treasure to pay for the nearby townsfolk’s property destroyed by Smaug. To make matters worse, an army of woodland Elves soon appears on Thorin’s doorstep, demanding the return of historical treasures stolen long ago and kept within the Mountain.

It is through this leadup to the eponymous conflict – and particularly through the resulting exploration of the dynamics of race, history, and territory – that “Battle” offers a genuinely unique contribution to the fantasy-cinema landscape. Many fantasy worlds suggest racial conflict between sentient species (the original LOTR trilogy hinted at Elf/Dwarf animosity between side characters Legolas and Gimli, for instance). In most cases, however, these themes are only explored on the most superficial of levels (“I never thought I’d die fighting side by side with an Elf,” grumbles Gimli in a dark LOTR moment. “What about side-by-side with a friend?” returns Legolas). Themes of persistent tension between groups, and not individuals, typically go unaddressed or serve simply as worldbuilding background.

“Battle” boldly suggests that ethnocultural identity is, to some extent, contingent upon the physicality of place. Questions of land and property ownership surrounding the past Dwarven diaspora, heirlooms belonging to a longstanding heritage, and a generalized racial “right of return” (as offered by Thorin to his Dwarf kinfolk) echo real-world tensions between cultural groups. The concept of “home” has been a long-running (and heretofore fairly uninventive) prequel series theme; here, it expands from simply a longing-for-hearth into a sober meditation on the core values of nation-states (a term used here in the technical sense, referring to a group whose ethnic identity is contiguous with its political borders). In the end, “Battle” provides a surprisingly mature, nuanced exploration of group-based cultural politics that never lapses into demonizing any of its participants.

And then, of course, the battle begins: an incipient three-way conflict between Elves, Dwarves, and Men quickly turns into a “good guys vs. goblins” tableau in the tradition of LOTR. It was grand stuff ten years ago, and it remains so today: for all his faults, Jackson knows how to stage a breathtaking battle scene, and the massive conflict does not disappoint. It lacks the emotional gravitas and world-shattering stakes of LOTR, but that doesn’t change the fact that “Battle” is frequently very exciting and very entertaining. Howard Shore’s booming score is also a great highlight.

The egregious vices of the previous “Hobbit” films are not absent here. The motion-capture Orcs and trolls still look awful, a far cry from the menacing makeup-and-prosthetics creations of Jackson’s earlier trilogy. The dialogue remains somewhat wince-inducing (especially in the context of the ill-advised romance between handsome Dwarf Kili and Elven archer Tauriel), and it’s still impossible to shake the feeling that this should never have been stretched into three films. Jackson’s recent tendency to substitute comedic pratfalls for real drama remains omnipresent, culminating in a ludicrously overwrought display of Elven acrobatics.

But when the Elf arrows start flying and the ancient Dwarven lords charge across the bloodied landscape, hacking through legions of savage monsters, it’s impossible to not be swept away in the sheer Wagnerian bombast of it all. Honestly, what Middle-earth devotee doesn’t want to watch the White Council defy a circle of ghostly Ringwraiths, or see Galadriel channel her immortal power to banish Sauron from his fortress stronghold? Jackson throws up screen after screen of pure grandiosity, sending pulse rates skyrocketing whether or not he’s earned any serious emotional payoff. By this point in the franchise, I’ve come to terms with the realization that “The Hobbit” will never outdo LOTR in any meaningful sense; having acknowledged that, it’s entirely possible to appreciate this third installment for what it is…and flawed though it may be, “Battle” is a ride to remember.


290580_papel_de_parede_thranduil_o_hobbit_a_desola_by_eleynah-d8geeou.jpg


CMEQO6QWsAAdy7h.jpg:large
 
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Minus the gig with the Master's assistant being over-the-top in craziness (although I did crack up at several points), I honestly liked both the sets and the fight scenes - and yes, the Ringwraiths did feel a bit more quick during the fights like in a video game, but it was still cool. Seeing the hoods slowly raising their swords from the original LOTR Saga, I wasn't really wanting to see more of the same and appreciated a differing dynamic with actually showing the high-speed ghosts. I really liked seeing these Old World characters from the time of Morgoth (Sauron is one of his servants) express their superior power for once, as it concerns Galadriel who is awe-inspiring and powerful, Elrond with his fighting routine with the Nazgul and Saruman adding into things.

I also HIGHLY enjoyed seeing high elves as represented by the development of Thranduil, when he comes to reclaim his family heirlooms from the Lonely Mountain and his beautiful army lines up in front of the dwarves. And with the ways that the dwarves go to war, it was very beautiful to see how things line up:




War%2BPig.jpg

wikia-visualization-mainhobbitarmies.png


But the political landscape is what stood out to me on the issue. As one person said best:


Biblical Allusions Speaking of second-comings, I’ve said elsewhere, that I believe the 12 dwarves are metaphors for the Diaspora Twelve Tribes of Israel (see here Are The Hobbit Dwarves Jewish? and here (3) The Hobbit’s 13 Dwarves). It has long been argued back and forth about the allegorical nature of LoTR. As evidence for this claim there is: a massive shofar blown at the end and the dwarves ride rams, so its all Passover and the festival of the Scapegoat. Lust for gold, seeking a new home, a small people but loyal and hardy, fighting a “Red Dragon”…it’s all here (see The Real Red Smaug. Christmas Genocide in Iraq. I Attend an Arabic Service). There is also (the coincidence?) that Hobbit 3 is released during Hanukkah season.

You have to remember that Tolkien wrote Hobbit about a decade before the Jews of the Holocaust reclaimed a homeland (modern Israel) but during the political period of the Balfour Declaration and Churchill’s advocacy for Jews. I think Tolkien was conscious of this when crafting Thorin’s quest for his “little people.”



Also, As said there:



“One day I’ll remember; remember everything that happened: the good , the bad, those who survived…and those that did not.”

While “Battle” isn’t without its share of issues, it manages to outdo its predecessors in both thematic depth and stylistic execution, and ultimately emerges as the prefatory chapter “LOTR” deserved all along.

In a breathtaking opening sequence that really should’ve served as a climax for “Desolation,” the mighty dragon Smaug is slain. The Dwarven adventurers – and lords in exile – successfully retake their home kingdom and its vast hoard of treasure. It soon becomes clear, however, that Dwarf king Thorin (Richard Armitage) has no intention of allocating some of the treasure to pay for the nearby townsfolk’s property destroyed by Smaug. To make matters worse, an army of woodland Elves soon appears on Thorin’s doorstep, demanding the return of historical treasures stolen long ago and kept within the Mountain.

It is through this leadup to the eponymous conflict – and particularly through the resulting exploration of the dynamics of race, history, and territory – that “Battle” offers a genuinely unique contribution to the fantasy-cinema landscape. Many fantasy worlds suggest racial conflict between sentient species (the original LOTR trilogy hinted at Elf/Dwarf animosity between side characters Legolas and Gimli, for instance). In most cases, however, these themes are only explored on the most superficial of levels (“I never thought I’d die fighting side by side with an Elf,” grumbles Gimli in a dark LOTR moment. “What about side-by-side with a friend?” returns Legolas). Themes of persistent tension between groups, and not individuals, typically go unaddressed or serve simply as worldbuilding background.

“Battle” boldly suggests that ethnocultural identity is, to some extent, contingent upon the physicality of place. Questions of land and property ownership surrounding the past Dwarven diaspora, heirlooms belonging to a longstanding heritage, and a generalized racial “right of return” (as offered by Thorin to his Dwarf kinfolk) echo real-world tensions between cultural groups. The concept of “home” has been a long-running (and heretofore fairly uninventive) prequel series theme; here, it expands from simply a longing-for-hearth into a sober meditation on the core values of nation-states (a term used here in the technical sense, referring to a group whose ethnic identity is contiguous with its political borders). In the end, “Battle” provides a surprisingly mature, nuanced exploration of group-based cultural politics that never lapses into demonizing any of its participants.

And then, of course, the battle begins: an incipient three-way conflict between Elves, Dwarves, and Men quickly turns into a “good guys vs. goblins” tableau in the tradition of LOTR. It was grand stuff ten years ago, and it remains so today: for all his faults, Jackson knows how to stage a breathtaking battle scene, and the massive conflict does not disappoint. It lacks the emotional gravitas and world-shattering stakes of LOTR, but that doesn’t change the fact that “Battle” is frequently very exciting and very entertaining. Howard Shore’s booming score is also a great highlight.

The egregious vices of the previous “Hobbit” films are not absent here. The motion-capture Orcs and trolls still look awful, a far cry from the menacing makeup-and-prosthetics creations of Jackson’s earlier trilogy. The dialogue remains somewhat wince-inducing (especially in the context of the ill-advised romance between handsome Dwarf Kili and Elven archer Tauriel), and it’s still impossible to shake the feeling that this should never have been stretched into three films. Jackson’s recent tendency to substitute comedic pratfalls for real drama remains omnipresent, culminating in a ludicrously overwrought display of Elven acrobatics.

But when the Elf arrows start flying and the ancient Dwarven lords charge across the bloodied landscape, hacking through legions of savage monsters, it’s impossible to not be swept away in the sheer Wagnerian bombast of it all. Honestly, what Middle-earth devotee doesn’t want to watch the White Council defy a circle of ghostly Ringwraiths, or see Galadriel channel her immortal power to banish Sauron from his fortress stronghold? Jackson throws up screen after screen of pure grandiosity, sending pulse rates skyrocketing whether or not he’s earned any serious emotional payoff. By this point in the franchise, I’ve come to terms with the realization that “The Hobbit” will never outdo LOTR in any meaningful sense; having acknowledged that, it’s entirely possible to appreciate this third installment for what it is…and flawed though it may be, “Battle” is a ride to remember.


290580_papel_de_parede_thranduil_o_hobbit_a_desola_by_eleynah-d8geeou.jpg


CMEQO6QWsAAdy7h.jpg:large


Elves rock...

tumblr_nozz9hePPy1tdtmhco1_500.jpg
 
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Hoshiyya

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Since we're talking about race, here are some thoughts that have recently come to me:

"Racism" as Americans today speak of it is a largely American construct... what you guys over there are describing doesn't truly exist in China, Russia, Libya or Finland, for example. The rest of the world is dealing with Culturalism, which actually matters, while you guys are complaining about casting decisions in Hollywood movies, or trying to prove that "Black people can write books too" and mentioning a list of books to "prove" this.

Learn a lesson or two from the rest of the world.
Actually an ideology like Communism would have done you guys a lot of good, it would perhaps create real sense of equality.

Malcolm X quit racism because he went into a new ideology, and met white people who had taken the same step. Becoming Sunni was what led Malcolm and whites into friendship; hence the "us and them" paradigm changed from "black and whites" to "Muslimeen and others", hence removing the racial component.

Islam and Communism both have obvious flaws that do not need to be listed, my point is simply that a person like Nissim (Afro-american convert to Orthodox Judaism) is able to achieve actual sense of equality, relative to another person, of another race, who converts to the same ideology (in this case OJ).

So it seems if you can get two persons, say an Anglo-american and an Afro-american to convert to for example Judaism, or Islam, or Communism, or something that is basically foreign to BOTH of them, you can have them achieve the "converts' equality."
 
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SinnerInTheHands

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As for the race issue, Middle-earth was always intended as a replacement for the missing mythology of the English people. (The Arthurian tales, while associated with England, are actually French in origin.)

This statement is wrong on a great many levels. Let's begin to dissect it:

1] Middle-earth was never intended as a "replacement for the missing mythology of the English people". If you even begin to read Tolkien's 12-volume History of Middle Earth you'll very quickly find that the entire saga was primarily intended as the backstory for Tolkien's own linguistic creations. Though yes, the saga is nearly entirely Germanic in nature, no where should it be taken as a "replacement mythology", as English mythology was never lost, and thus could never be seen as "missing".

2] The Arthurian tales are entirely Welsh in origin, not French. Technically there is some Breton influence, but the Bretons [remember] are Celtic not French.​
 
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SinnerInTheHands

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Far over the Misty Mountains cold
To dungeons deep, and caverns old
We must away ere break of day
To find our long forgotten gold.


The pines were roaring on the height
The winds were moaning in the night
The fire was red, it flaming spread
The trees like torches, blazed with light
"The dwarves of course are quite obviously - wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic." [Tolkien]

"I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue..." [Tolkien]
 
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Hoshiyya

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"The dwarves of course are quite obviously - wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic." [Tolkien]

"I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue..." [Tolkien]

I never liked that. The dwarves were at once vikings and Jews, doing a disservice to both groups, in a way.
The langauge he created for them was neither Hebraic nor Norse, but cool nonetheless. To me they end up seeming more north-eastern than middle-eastern, but in truth they are just fictions.

Really, the Haradrim are the representatives of the middle east, but to Tolkien, Jews were not middle eastern.

I like the idea of re-presenting the physical world in fantasy worlds, but at the same time I often end up enjoying reading about the pre-flood Noldor, due to it being truly unique, and not firmly representative of one Real World civilization.

The dwarves of actual European mythology did not represent any Real World civilization, unless perhaps if we are talking about the pygmees of Greek mythology.
 
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SinnerInTheHands

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I never liked that. The dwarves were at once vikings and Jews, doing a disservice to both groups, in a way.
The langauge he created for them was neither Hebraic nor Norse, but cool nonetheless. To me they end up seeming more north-eastern than middle-eastern, but in truth they are just fictions.

Really, the Haradrim are the representatives of the middle east, but to Tolkien, Jews were not middle eastern.

I like the idea of re-presenting the physical world in fantasy worlds, but at the same time I often end up enjoying reading about the pre-flood Noldor, due to it being truly unique, and not firmly representative of one Real World civilization.

The dwarves of actual European mythology did not represent any Real World civilization, unless perhaps if we are talking about the pygmees of Greek mythology.

The Dwarves were never intended to be Norse, nor was their language intended to resemble it.
 
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