Heb 8:8-11 vs Jer 31:31-34 , The New Covenant written on our hearts. How can it abolish the commands

SAAN · Aug 31, 2015

Hebrews 8:8-11(KJV)
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

How can a covenant made with the House of Israel, mean that Gods commandments are abolished, when God specifically says 3 verses later, those same commands are now written on our hearts?

The same thing was said back in the book of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34(KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

bbbbbbb · Aug 31, 2015

I don't know about you, but I have no affiliation with the House or Israel or the House of Judah, so this prophecy cannot be applied to me.

SAAN · Sep 1, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
I don't know about you, but I have no affiliation with the House or Israel or the House of Judah, so this prophecy cannot be applied to me.

But that is the only people the New Covenant was made with and no one else, this is why the bible says we are grafted into Israel.

bbbbbbb · Sep 1, 2015

SAAN said:
But that is the only people the New Covenant was made with and no one else, this is why the bible says we are grafted into Israel.

Well, then, my friend, you and I are lost and without hope. My Bible tells me that there is no longer a dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles and that there is no one new man, the Church, which is neither Jew nor Gentile. If you think you are Jewish (belonging ethnically to the House of Israel or the House of Judah) you are greatly deceived.

Shimshon · Sep 1, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
I don't know about you, but I have no affiliation with the House or Israel or the House of Judah, so this prophecy cannot be applied to me.

The body of Messiah IS the house of Israel/Judah. You gentiles are invited to the marriage of Messiah to Yisrael, as virgins given lamps and oil. All are blessed by this wedding feast. Except those who reject it and yell "NAY!!! I object to this marriage!!" in the court of the King. They are bound and thrown out of the kingdom. But all are invited to feast and enjoy the gifts of the King. Eternal life included. And even today there are still those who are being added to the bride, by calling.

2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.
3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4 "Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'
5 "But they paid no attention and went off--one to his field, another to his business.
6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them.
7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come.
9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.'
10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.
12 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.
13 "Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen."

Yisrael (the nation) is the bride, Messiah is the Groom. (Rev 21:1-3) The servants are the prophets, and the invited ones are the people of Yisrael. The guests are the gentiles. The wedding clothes are the Spirit.

God intends to fulfill his promises, his marriage vows he made to Yisrael. He has invited all Yisrael, but many refused, so he dealt with those who refused, all the while remaining faithful to those who accepted. But opened the halls up to all nations. Not to become the bride, but to be blessed by the marriage. Even with eternal life.

Micah 4:1-7

The Mountain of the Lord
1 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it, 2 and many nations shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore; 4 but they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree, and no one shall make them afraid, for the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken. 5 For all the peoples walk each in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.

The Lord Shall Rescue Zion
6 In that day, declares the LORD, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away and those whom I have afflicted; 7 and the lame I will make the remnant, and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and forevermore.

Ezekiel 37: 21- 28

21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.

22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 24 “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”

We (Yisrael & Gentiles) have been made one in Messiah. We have not been ALL made Yisrael in Messiah.

bbbbbbb · Sep 1, 2015

Shimshon said:
The body of Messiah IS the house of Israel/Judah. You gentiles are invited to the marriage of Messiah to Yisrael, as virgins given lamps and oil. All are blessed by this wedding feast. Except those who reject it and yell "NAY!!! I object to this marriage!!" in the court of the King. They are bound and thrown out of the kingdom. But all are invited to feast and enjoy the gifts of the King. Eternal life included. And even today there are still those who are being added to the bride, by calling.

2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.
3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4 "Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'
5 "But they paid no attention and went off--one to his field, another to his business.
6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them.
7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come.
9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.'
10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.
12 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.
13 "Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Yisrael (the nation) is the bride, Messiah is the Groom. (Rev 21:1-3) The servants are the prophets, and the invited ones are the people of Yisrael. The guests are the gentiles. The wedding clothes are the Spirit.

God intends to fulfill his promises, his marriage vows he made to Yisrael. He has invited all Yisrael, but many refused, so he dealt with those who refused, all the while remaining faithful to those who accepted. But opened the halls up to all nations. Not to become the bride, but to be blessed by the marriage. Even with eternal life.

Micah 4:1-7

The Mountain of the Lord
1 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it, 2 and many nations shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore; 4 but they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree, and no one shall make them afraid, for the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken. 5 For all the peoples walk each in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.

The Lord Shall Rescue Zion
6 In that day, declares the LORD, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away and those whom I have afflicted; 7 and the lame I will make the remnant, and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and forevermore.

Ezekiel 37: 21- 28

21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.

22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 24 “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”

We (Yisrael & Gentiles) have been made one in Messiah. We have not been ALL made Yisrael in Messiah.

So sorry, but you are mistaken. If I wished to enter the covenant God made with Israel I would need to be ceremonially circumcised. Acts 15 is explicit that circumcision is not a requirement of the New Covenant. I am not a member of the Old Covenant or some reformed version of it.

Shimshon · Sep 1, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
So sorry, but you are mistaken. If I wished to enter the covenant God made with Israel I would need to be ceremonially circumcised. Acts 15 is explicit that circumcision is not a requirement of the New Covenant. I am not a member of the Old Covenant or some reformed version of it.

You are not even comprehending what I am saying are you? I never once said you are or become a member of the house of Yisrael, nor bound to it's covenant's laws as Yisrael.

Shimshon said:
God intends to fulfill his promises, his marriage vows he made to Yisrael. He has invited all Yisrael, but many refused, so he dealt with those who refused, all the while remaining faithful to those who accepted.

But opened the halls up to all nations. Not to become the bride, but to be blessed by the marriage. Even with eternal life.

Shimshon said:
We (Yisrael & Gentiles) have been made one in Messiah. We have not been ALL made Yisrael in Messiah.

Maybe what caused your kneejerk reaction is you don't understand that I am not a one law Messianic but a Jewish believer. I don't believe Messiah came to have the Spirit sent so gentiles would be able to observe the covenant given our fathers through Moses. However, I do believe God is still enlarging our house with those from the nations. Just not every single person in all nations. When we are made one it does not mean the abolition of either side. It means the union/unity of our unique beings.

Yes, you are not a member of Yisrael. Great, and yes, you can still receive the gifts the King is offering. Awesome! But reformed replacement theology makes God's bride old/abolished/void and replaces her with anyone else but she who was betrothed to God in the beginning. In this it is you who is sadly mistaken. God does not reject nor replace her whom he has loved and promised to be married to. Rebuked, yes, to repent, yes, but never to forsake. If you were so fond of the new earth and new heaven you would understand that even then the people of Yisrael will live. As a nation, as the people God redeemed from all other nations. I'm not refuting that those of the nations have been called to enjoy the benefits of our calling, even eternal life. But you sir have refuted the very promises of God by calling his bride old and replacing her with those of the nations who actually receive life because of the marriage of the lamb and/as the house of Yisrael.

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
I don't know about you, but I have no affiliation with the House or Israel or the House of Judah, so this prophecy cannot be applied to me.

Indeed some will state right off the bat that they are not at all under the New Covenant.

But the rest of us will claim to be under the New Covenant.

bbbbbbb · Sep 1, 2015

Shimshon said:
You are not even comprehending what I am saying are you? I never once said you are or become a member of the house of Yisrael, nor bound to it's covenant's laws as Yisrael.

Maybe what caused your kneejerk reaction is you don't understand that I am not a one law Messianic but a Jewish believer. I don't believe Messiah came to have the Spirit sent so gentiles would be able to observe the covenant given our fathers through Moses. However, I do believe God is still enlarging our house with those from the nations. Just not every single person in all nations. When we are made one it does not mean the abolition of either side. It means the union/unity of our unique beings.

Yes, you are not a member of Yisrael. Great, and yes, you can still receive the gifts the King is offering. Awesome! But reformed replacement theology makes God's bride old/abolished/void and replaces her with anyone else but she who was betrothed to God in the beginning. In this it is you who is sadly mistaken. God does not reject nor replace her whom he has loved and promised to be married to. Rebuked, yes, to repent, yes, but never to forsake. If you were so fond of the new earth and new heaven you would understand that even then the people of Yisrael will live. As a nation, as the people God redeemed from all other nations. I'm not refuting that those of the nations have been called to enjoy the benefits of our calling, even eternal life. But you sir have refuted the very promises of God by calling his bride old and replacing her with those of the nations who actually receive life because of the marriage of the lamb and/as the house of Yisrael.

I also utterly reject replacement theology and thank you for your clarification. There is no doubt at all that God has a tremendous future for the nation of Israel. I thank God daily for His mercy to me, a Gentile, in bringing me into the New Covenant.

Winken · Sep 1, 2015

SAAN said:
How can a covenant made with the House of Israel, mean that Gods commandments are abolished, when God specifically says 3 verses later, those same commands are now written on our hearts?

No longer written in stone.

Winken · Sep 1, 2015

SAAN said:
But that is the only people the New Covenant was made with and no one else, this is why the bible says we are grafted into Israel.

Romans 11:19-22

"Grafted in" pertained to Gentiles who were made eligible for the Gift of salvation by Grace through Faith through the Covenant with Abraham, resulting in the Cross. Each Gentile who does not respond to the Gift of salvation will be "broken off," just as those Jews who were chosen, who were granted redemption, but failed to remain true to the Covenant. Note the difference: The Jews were chosen and granted redemption at birth; Gentiles were to be convicted by the Holy Spirit, following through with the confession in Romans 10:8-13. Jews followed rites, rituals, washings, sacrifices, temple worship, 613 laws (including the Ten Commandments) in order to maintain their chosen status, then to enter into their earthly Kingdom (Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew, identical to Kingdom of God in Mark and Luke); Christians do "none of the above" before or after receiving Jesus as Savior.

Gentile Believers were those who accept the Gift (Romans 10:8-13). They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they were not merged into Judaism.

Paul explains this clearly when he tells the Jews "not to seek to be uncircumcised" and the Gentiles "not to become circumcised" (1 Corinthians 7:18). There was no need for either people group to think they must become what they were not. Instead, God made Jews and Gentiles into "one new man" in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This "new man" is referring to the Church, the Body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It is a Spiritual union!

It's important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the Body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles united by one Lord, one Faith, one Spiritual Baptism (not water). If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, nor for Israel to abandon its national identity, but joined in the Covenant of Grace through Faith, therefore one in Jesus.

SAAN · Sep 2, 2015

Winken said:
Romans 11:19-22

"Grafted in" pertained to Gentiles who were made eligible for the Gift of salvation by Grace through Faith through the Covenant with Abraham, resulting in the Cross. Each Gentile who does not respond to the Gift of salvation will be "broken off," just as those Jews who were chosen, who were granted redemption, but failed to remain true to the Covenant. Note the difference: The Jews were chosen and granted redemption at birth; Gentiles were to be convicted by the Holy Spirit, following through with the confession in Romans 10:8-13. Jews followed rites, rituals, washings, sacrifices, temple worship, 613 laws (including the Ten Commandments) in order to maintain their chosen status, then to enter into their earthly Kingdom (Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew, identical to Kingdom of God in Mark and Luke); Christians do "none of the above" before or after receiving Jesus as Savior.

Gentile Believers were those who accept the Gift (Romans 10:8-13). They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they were not merged into Judaism.

Paul explains this clearly when he tells the Jews "not to seek to be uncircumcised" and the Gentiles "not to become circumcised" (1 Corinthians 7:18). There was no need for either people group to think they must become what they were not. Instead, God made Jews and Gentiles into "one new man" in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This "new man" is referring to the Church, the Body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It is a Spiritual union!

It's important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the Body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles united by one Lord, one Faith, one Spiritual Baptism (not water). If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, nor for Israel to abandon its national identity, but joined in the Covenant of Grace through Faith, therefore one in Jesus.

We may be one in Christ, but there is nothing in scriptures saying there are rules for the Jews and rules for the Gentiles. They follow the same set of standard from God.

BobRyan · Sep 2, 2015

SAAN said:
Hebrews 8:8-11(KJV)
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

How can a covenant made with the House of Israel, mean that Gods commandments are abolished, when God specifically says 3 verses later, those same commands are now written on our hearts?

The same thing was said back in the book of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34(KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Good point.

one poster on this area of the board has solved the problem by claiming that he is not under the New Covenant.

I think that is going to the extreme to avoid the Commandments of God - but it is one way of getting around the Hebrews 8 problem.

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Under the New Covenant "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Under the New Covenant "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be JustIFIED... on the day when according to MY GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16
Under the New Covenant "the SAINTs KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

All the OT saints of Heb 11 were pursing "righteousness which is BY FAITH" Heb 11:7 including Moses and Elijah who stand WITH Christ in Matt 17 before the cross.

Under the New Covenant.
"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"what? Shall we SIN because we are not UNDER the Law? May it NEVER be!" Rom 6
"these things I write to you that you SIN not" 1John 2:1
"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1John 3:4

Wonderful news for the NEW COVENANT Christian of Heb 8:6-10 and Jer 31:31-33 "THIS is the NEW Covenant ...I will make with the House of ISRAEL and the house of Judah... I will write My LAW on their Mind and on their heart.."

Good news for all of us "For he is NOT a Jew that is merely one OUTWARDLY... but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY " Rom 2
in Christ,

Bob

Dialogist · Sep 2, 2015

SAAN said:
How can a covenant made with the House of Israel, mean that Gods commandments are abolished, when God specifically says 3 verses later, those same commands are now written on our hearts?

I'm not sure the text says that God's commandments are abolished, but rather that the first covenant was replaced by the new covenant wherein, as you write, God's commandments would be written on our hearts.

In v.7, Paul states outright that the first covenant was faulty (For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second). Its purpose was not flawed, but it became faulty because the people did not keep it. This was not unforeseen, as it was intended from the beginning to be a shadow or type of the eventual covenant God would perfect with His people:

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made ... the law was our schoolmaster to bring us into Christ, that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:19, 24)

BobRyan · Sep 2, 2015

The first covenant is "obey and live" -- no gospel in it at all. Adam and Eve were the first humans under that covenant.

The Law of God continues to bind every one of mankind according to Romans 3 and Gal 3 - all the world, every mouth closed, all condemned as sinners, all in need of the Savior. All need to accept the Gospel

But there is one Gospel - and only one Gal 1:6-9 and "the gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:7. That is how we have all those OT saints in Heb 11.

SAAN · Sep 3, 2015

Dialogist said:
I'm not sure the text says that God's commandments are abolished, but rather that the first covenant was replaced by the new covenant wherein, as you write, God's commandments would be written on our hearts.

In v.7, Paul states outright that the first covenant was faulty (For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second). Its purpose was not flawed, but it became faulty because the people did not keep it. This was not unforeseen, as it was intended from the beginning to be a shadow or type of the eventual covenant God would perfect with His people:

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made ... the law was our schoolmaster to bring us into Christ, that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:19, 24)

The texts doesnt say its abolished, but many on here promote that.
Read enough threads in this Sabbath and Law section and there are many on here that actually promote and believe that Christians are not obligated to follow the commands of God.

bbbbbbb · Sep 3, 2015

SAAN said:
The texts doesnt say its abolished, but many on here promote that.
Read enough threads in this Sabbath and Law section and there are many on here that actually promote and believe that Christians are not obligated to follow the commands of God.

Actually, I have yet to encounter a single poster on this board who advocates obeying all of the commands of God. To one degree or another even the most legalistic of the posters dispense with a surprisingly large number of God's commands. And this includes yourself.

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2015

Dialogist said:
I'm not sure the text says that God's commandments are abolished, but rather that the first covenant was replaced by the new covenant wherein, as you write, God's commandments would be written on our hearts.

That is true - in Jer 31:31-33 it is God's moral LAW as known to Jeremiah and his readers "Written on the mind and heart" and that continues to be the case in the NT as we see in Heb 8:6-10 -- stating that the TEN Commandments are Christ's - they are given by Christ.

So then the "Commandments of God" under the New Covenant.

Wednesday at 6:54 PM #13

bbbbbbb · Sep 4, 2015

BobRyan said:
That is true - in Jer 31:31-33 it is God's moral LAW as known to Jeremiah and his readers "Written on the mind and heart" and that continues to be the case in the NT as we see in Heb 8:6-10 -- stating that the TEN Commandments are Christ's - they are given by Christ.

So then the "Commandments of God" under the New Covenant.

Wednesday at 6:54 PM #13

You keep going on about some "moral" Law as if there is also some "immoral" law. Could you please show us where in the Bible the term, "moral Law" is used? Thank you.

Steeno7 · Sep 4, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
Actually, I have yet to encounter a single poster on this board who advocates obeying all of the commands of God. To one degree or another even the most legalistic of the posters dispense with a surprisingly large number of God's commands. And this includes yourself.

Yep. They slice and dice the Law, categorizing it based on an agenda of presuppositions, and then they decide which categories are valid and which are invalid for themselves, applying what works for them in one instance and discarding what does not work in another. It is cheap Law. Those who understand they are under Grace and not Law are the ones who uphold the Law. ALL of the Law. We don’t cheapen the Law by slicing and dicing it to make it 'doable’.

Heb 8:8-11 vs Jer 31:31-34 , The New Covenant written on our hearts. How can it abolish the commands

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Not I...but Christ

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