If you're a Christian and pro-choice, you're on the wrong side of the issue.

brinny said:

...just wondering...when you say that the very small baby "fails to implant" theirself onto the wall of the uterus, do you mean that they didn't reach out and grab the uterus? Can you elaborate?

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I'm not sure what information you're looking for, but I'll jump in. Not every fertilized egg successfully implants, because those are two different events. And I wouldn't say that a single-celled organism is capable of "grabbing" anything.

Cearbhall said:

I'm not sure what information you're looking for, but I'll jump in. Not every fertilized egg successfully implants, because those are two different events. And I wouldn't say that a single-celled organism is capable of "grabbing" anything.

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Thanks for the response...i'm not disagreeing with you, but i was looking for a response from that particular member because it seemed to be insinuated that the baby could somehow control the latching onto the uterus wall....

asking for clarification if that's what he meant...

brinny said:

Thanks for the response...i'm not disagreeing with you, but i was looking for a response from that particular member because it seemed to be insinuated that the baby could somehow control the latching onto the uterus wall....

asking for clarification if that's what he meant...

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Oh. I guess I can't answer that, then. Nevermind.

Cearbhall said:

Oh. I guess I can't answer that, then. Nevermind.

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LOL! It's ok, thanks for the response.

ranunculus said:

The problem with affording a fetus the same rights as a human being is practical, not just moral.

What would the world look like if a zygote is a human being with the same rights?
Every woman between the age of 10-60 would have to report every loss of blood to a doctor, who would then have to make sure no human being has died. In that case, a criminal investigation would have to follow. Involuntary manslaughter would be the lowest possible charge.
"You had an early miscarriage due to to poor implantation.
Oh you didn't know you were pregnant and went out to a party and had a few drinks? You ate some sushi?"
10-16 months in prison.

Literally every miscarriage would become an automatic criminal investigation into murder.
Artificial insemination would be impossible.
Cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria!

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The only hysteria I can see is in you post.

No matter how fanciful a situation you can think of it still would not negate the fact that abortion unjustly kills a human being , which is immoral.

DogmaHunter said:

But it feeds on it. Another person has no default right to another person's body. If you need a kidney and I am a match, you can't force me to hand over a kidney. Even if not handing over the kidney would mean certain death for you.

Following that logic, you should be allowed to force me to hand over a kidney to you if it means you would die if I don't.

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The unborn has every right to be in its mothers womb since that is its natural habitat for approximately nine months.

And to follow your logic, since "another person has no default right to another person's body" then the mother has no right to do harm to her unborn's body. Right?

Aldebaran said:

This is an example of how love and compassion is missing in this world and why we need Christ.

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I'm sorry you feel that way. I personally believe that protecting liberties and human rights such as bodily autonomy is an important part of love and compassion, but I also acknowledge that many pro-life individuals have good intentions and are just approaching the issue from a different angle. I know that they aren't all lacking love and compassion. Just because someone disagrees with me about a solution doesn't mean that we don't want the same thing.

On the other hand, I'm a bit taken aback by your judgment of me, and I'm not sure you're fully understanding my point. Are you suggesting that you would be ok with it if your body were used to keep someone else alive against your will, perhaps through illegal organ harvesting?

Aldebaran said:

Taking a human life is not a display of love and compassion from any angle.

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Well, I'd have to disagree, especially in situations of congenital malformations. I do believe that it should be left up to the pregnant woman, though.

Aldebaran said:

I wasn't judging you. I was looking at the stance you have taken and how it results in the taking of an innocent life based on the idea that the woman's body is seen as a "life support machine" that doesn't want to be. 9 months of pregnancy not wanted, so an entire life is snuffed out. That is a very selfish decision to make.

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I was engaging in a back-and-forth about sexual assault specifically. This means that the pregnancy occurred entirely against her will. Due to the nature of pregnancy, this result is therefore comparable to forcing someone into tissue or organ donation. We don't even let hospitals forcibly take blood to use for life-saving procedures, and that's much less risky than pregnancy and childbirth. I don't see how a rape survivor choosing to terminate a pregnancy is any different than a person who walks past the sign-up table for bone marrow donations or doesn't sign his driver license. In fact, I'd say the last example is the only truly horrendous one, because you don't need your body for anything after you've died. You lose nothing. A young woman has a lot of things to lose.

Chany said:

The question is for those who say abortion is always wrong, even if the health of the mother is at stake. Do you believe that?

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At that point, it should be between the mother, father and physician.

What if the mother is going to die no matter what, should the baby be preserved at all cost?

Aldebaran said:

I once knew a woman who was the product of a rape. Should she have been aborted too?

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No. I'm pro-choice. There's no "should."

Aldebaran said:

The difference is that a terminated pregnancy is a terminated life, period.

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I know. I'm ok with that being legal.

Aldebaran said:

Are there any other "choices" you're in favor of that show complete disregard for human life?

Complacency about such things is why human life is becoming less valuable, even to other humans.

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I would say that it's an improvement in regards to respecting human life, but I understand where you're coming from.

I'd also like to point out that abortion has been recorded for thousands of years and has been legal before in various cultures. It's not new, so I wouldn't say that it's a sign of much at all.

Aldebaran said:

Yes, and there are various cultures even today that allow a husband to kill his wife, or homosexuals to be thrown off buildings, or Christians to be beheaded. Just the fact that it's not new doesn't mean ANYthing at all. People have done horrible things to each other for centuries. That's no reason to continue doing so.

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That's not the argument I made. I was pointing out that the legality of abortion is not evidence that human life is "becoming less valuable," as you put it.

Aldebaran said:

The legality of it is an indication that our government sees life as less valuable.

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Well, clearly I disagree. It's curious that, according to you, the US government saw life as less valuable until the late 1800s when abortion was first criminalized in the US, then more valuable, and then less valuable again in 1973. Not taking into account slavery, women's rights, child labor, welfare, or anything else...

Aldebaran said:

The fact that certain women would actually do such a thing out of selfishness is an indication of how people are becoming more callous as individuals.

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Again with the false representation of the history of abortion. I don't see any evidence that society is "becoming" this. You yourself mentioned three different human rights violations that have been on the decline for centuries.