What Do You Think of the Catholic Teaching about Mary?

Job8 · Aug 28, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Right. We don't believe Mary is a spirit. She's bodily in heaven.

It's one thing to believe that Mary is bodily in Heaven (which in itself has no Scriptural support). It is quite another thing to pray to her (and it won't do any good to deny that prayers such as Salve Regina are not been directed to Mary daily). There is only ONE Mediator between God and men -- the Man Christ Jesus. But Catholics have a Mediatrix as shown below:
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
Hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope.
To thee do we cry,
Poor banished children of Eve;
To thee do we send forth our sighs,
Mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
Thine eyes of mercy toward us;
And after this our exile,
Show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving,
O sweet Virgin Mary.
Pray for us, O holy Mother of God,
that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ, thy Son.

Goatee · Aug 28, 2015

Albion said:
It's quite obvious that there's no petition, and it asks for no intercessions by anyone. As such, it's not relevant to the discussion we were having.

It is relevant as you are saying that we should only be praying to Jesus / God! This psalm shows otherwise!!

Albion · Aug 28, 2015

antletems said:
It is relevant as you are saying that we should only be praying to Jesus / God!

Really? Is there some debate among Christians--or on this thread--about the propriety of praying to God?

Goatee · Aug 28, 2015

Albion said:
Really? Is there some debate among Christians--or on this thread--about the propriety of praying to God?

Face up to the fact that you are now tongue tied! This psalm shows that we can indeed pray to other than Jesus, which means that we can pray to Mary! We can ask her to pray for us!

Root of Jesse · Aug 28, 2015

Albion said:
A spirit vs one's neighbor or a church elder. We've been all around that difference.

But there's no spirit involved, other than the Holy Spirit. You keep insisting on your belief, I'll keep insisting on mine. We believe Mary is bodily in heaven, as are Moses, Elijah, and Jesus.

Click to expand...

Christians.

So it's not the teaching of any Church, but some people. Thanks. Any links or other doc you can provide?

YOU may believe that. Your church thinks her corpse is in heaven. But it doesn't really change anything about this discussion anyway. Praying to a deceased human is not the same as what the Bible teaches about prayer.

My Church does not teach that her corpse is in heaven. Saints in heaven are ALIVE. All of them, including Mary. Most don't have their bodies yet. Quite different.

Albion · Aug 29, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
So it's not the teaching of any Church, but some people.

I didn't say that.

My Church does not teach that her corpse is in heaven.

That's all right; many Catholics have mistaken ideas about what their church actually teaches.

Goatee · Aug 29, 2015

Albion said:
I didn't say that.

That's all right; many Catholics have mistaken ideas about what their church actually teaches.

I agree that it is 'the church' teaching about Mary. Nothing in the Bible about it. This is what i find hard sometimes to grasp about the Catholic faith. We are meant to believe in 'Tradition' as handed down but at the same time i am horrified by how the church behaved when it tortured and murdered so many people in the past! Ok, that is different to the core beliefs of the church but i do feel perplexed by it all.

Albion · Aug 29, 2015

antletems said:
I agree that it is 'the church' teaching about Mary.

Yes, but what the church's teaching IS deserves clarification. It's not that she went into heaven while alive in the flesh, but that her body has been assumed into heaven. The alleged burial place of the Virgin was said to be found vacant when unearthed, leading to the conclusion of some people that God must have preserved her remains from decay. The idea that she was taken to heaven while alive is allowed, but it's not the official teaching of the church.

Goatee · Aug 29, 2015

Albion said:
Yes, but what the church's teaching IS deserves clarification. It's not that she went into heaven while alive in the flesh, but that her body has been assumed into heaven. The alleged burial place of the Virgin was said to be found vacant when unearthed, leading to the conclusion of some people that God must have preserved her remains from decay. The idea that she was taken to heaven while alive is allowed, but it's not the official teaching of the church.

Catechism of Catholic church:

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians

Albion · Aug 29, 2015

antletems said:
Catechism of Catholic church:

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians

Goatee · Aug 29, 2015

Of course, she was not alive when taken into heaven!

Albion · Aug 29, 2015

antletems said:
Of course, she was not alive when taken into heaven!

Then there is no issue here between us, although our friend imagines that the church's teaching is that she was taken alive into heaven. This may owe to the many paintings of her looking like Christ ascending into the clouds that we have all seen at one time or another.

Goatee · Aug 29, 2015

Albion said:
Then there is no issue here between us, although our friend imagines that the church's teaching is that she was taken alive into heaven. This may owe to the many paintings of her looking like Christ ascending into the clouds that we have all seen at one time or another.

I think she was taken body and soul but only after she died. Why take her when she was alive and needed on earth?

Root of Jesse · Aug 30, 2015

Albion said:
I didn't say that.

So, as you say below, what the Church teaches, and what some people think, are sometimes different things. John was not the brother or half-brother of Jesus. You're talking about the wrong James and John, who were sons of Zebedee.

That's all right; many Catholics have mistaken ideas about what their church actually teaches.

Right, they do. But "Catholics" do not believe, and the Church does not teach, that there are any corpses in heaven. The saints, Mary included, are alive in heaven, whether they're united with their bodies, or not.

Albion · Aug 30, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Right, they do. But "Catholics" do not believe, and the Church does not teach, that there are any corpses in heaven. The saints, Mary included, are alive in heaven, whether they're united with their bodies, or not.

Frankly, I'm amazed that you'd think the fact (if it's true) of Mary's body having been assumed into heaven by an act of God NECESSARILY MEANS that she is not alive in heaven. But you can suit yourself. I was just stating the information correctly for whoever cares to know.

John was not the brother or half-brother of Jesus.

You're right about that. What I meant to say is that it's widely believed that he gave John to be treated as if he were the son of Mary and vice versa; and the wording was to the effect that they should behave towards each other that way. This is not to be construed as meaning that Jesus created some new cosmic relationship between them.

Root of Jesse · Aug 31, 2015

Albion said:
Frankly, I'm amazed that you'd think the fact (if it's true) of Mary's body having been assumed into heaven by an act of God NECESSARILY MEANS that she is not alive in heaven. But you can suit yourself. I was just stating the information correctly for whoever cares to know.

Mary is alive in heaven, whether she died on earth or not. That's the Truth the Church teaches. Revelation shows this to be true.

You're right about that. What I meant to say is that it's widely believed that he gave John to be treated as if he were the son of Mary and vice versa; and the wording was to the effect that they should behave towards each other that way. This is not to be construed as meaning that Jesus created some new cosmic relationship between them.

That's right. A son was named to take care of her. Why? Because there were no other children to do so.

Look, I don't care whether you believe our Marian dogmas or our doctrines in general. I just wish you get them right, which means as they are stated in the Catechism, not as they may (or may not) be enacted by some, many, or even all of the faithful. The fact, that some parish somewhere had it's own recipe for communion hosts, which included eggs, sugar, and baking soda, does not mean that it's correct to do so. Therefore, that some people treat Mary as part of the Godhead does not mean they are correct to do so. Therefore, since the Church doesn't teach it, it's not what 'we' believe.

Albion · Aug 31, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Mary is alive in heaven, whether she died on earth or not. That's the Truth the Church teaches.

Yeh. We both believe that. I don't know why you're going on as though that is not the case.

Root of Jesse · Aug 31, 2015

Albion said:
Yeh. We both believe that. I don't know why you're going on as though that is not the case.

You're the one seems to be disputing it. If I'm wrong, forgive me.

bbbbbbb · Aug 31, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
You're the one seems to be disputing it. If I'm wrong, forgive me.

I think the issue is whether or not she became a demi-goddess after entering heaven.

faroukfarouk · Sep 2, 2015

JacquelineDeane said:
I am Independent Baptist and for much of my life my denomination has taught me that it was heresy to worship anyone else other than God alone. We are not to worship any humans or any creatures (even the angels deny worship), and my church teaches that Mary was not divine, she was a mere human that God used to have Jesus. We are not to elevate her status because she was just like any one of us.

My church seems to think that the Catholics worship Mary and they condemn it as a heresy. They seem to think that the Catholic church teaches many heresies, including the heresy of the Pope. They believe that the verse the Catholics use to support the existence of a Pope is actually a mis-interpretation of Scripture, making the Pope a heresy.

The issue in the end is not what anyone's denomination holds, supposedly or otherwise. It's, instead, What do the Scriptures teach and what do you and I believe?
'There is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.' 1 Timothy 2.5

What Do You Think of the Catholic Teaching about Mary?

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