Christianity - As Jesus Christ Himself Taught It

ToBeLoved

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In Hebrew it is goy, in Greek, ethnos... and it means anyone from any nation other than Israel. And if you are not part of God's Israel, God's people, you are a heathen. So, a gentile is a heathen which is why, until recently in history, it was always defined as such. And yes, Paul did distinguish between Jews and those in the nations... but the Jews AND those in the nations who came out and to the God of Israel are part of Israel. That is why that same Paul... wrote that you WERE a gentile in the flesh, WERE an alien of the Commonwealth of Israel BUT ARE NOW a "fellow citizen." If you want to be a gentile, go ahead. :) I would prefer to be a fellow citizen of the commonwealth of Israel, God's people.

You were making a distinction between a Jew and a Christian as written about as you said by Paul. I was correcting you because Paul distinguished only between Jews and gentiles. You are saying that something (mainly the word Christian) was distinguished by Paul.

It was not.

You can say a non-Jew meant heathen, but since non-Jews were being saved by Christ Paul considered them, both Jew and Gentile unsaved until they accepted Christ. So this is all weird and non standard and not of the Bible.

There is nothing wrong with being a gentile. As a matter of fact, when the Jews rejected Christ, they helped us Gentiles and we did accept Christ. It's not about a gentile being a part of the commonwealth of Israel, that is what some believe, but Christ saves US on our own accord, without Israel.
 
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ToBeLoved

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In Hebrew it is goy, in Greek, ethnos... and it means anyone from any nation other than Israel. And if you are not part of God's Israel, God's people, you are a heathen. So, a gentile is a heathen which is why, until recently in history, it was always defined as such. And yes, Paul did distinguish between Jews and those in the nations... but the Jews AND those in the nations who came out and to the God of Israel are part of Israel. That is why that same Paul... wrote that you WERE a gentile in the flesh, WERE an alien of the Commonwealth of Israel BUT ARE NOW a "fellow citizen." If you want to be a gentile, go ahead. :) I would prefer to be a fellow citizen of the commonwealth of Israel, God's people.

So if Paul called us gentiles, then why do we need your translations that are different from Paul's? What is up with that? Why would you not want to stay Biblical?
 
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Chicken Little

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Sometimes I start to feel discouraged when I contemplate what Christianity has become. It seems as if everything man touches becomes corrupt in one way or another. I don't believe that christianity is supposed to be complex, or obscure, or difficult in any way. But just look at it today! All those churches with competing ideas about everything. All those rules. All those millions of pages of written material. Universities offer PhDs in the subject! Yet all that matters is saving the soul of the brother or sister standing next to you. It's insanity.

Think for a moment about Jesus teaching His people. He speaks to them during His Sermon On the Mount. Who here would say that any person sitting in that gathering listening to the words of the Lord, and who actually believed what He said, who actually recognized Jesus as Messiah, and who gave himself or herself over to the Lord on that day, was not saved, not a Christian, not as righteous in the eyes of God as any "Billy Graham" or Pope among us?

And that's it, all of it. The Word of God, sincere belief, and a commitment to Jesus Christ is all it takes. There was nothing else necessary then, and there is nothing else necessary now. All the rest of it, all the stained glass, libraries of books, prancing priests, pipe organs, and Sunday picnics are unnecessary. And, they can be dangerous, because they can fool people into thinking that is Christianity, when it isn't.

What I write here is not Christianity, and what St. Paul wrote to the Roman Church isn't Christianity either, regardless of how Divinely inspired it was. To find Christianity, put yourself back on that hillside, and let the Words of the Lord Jesus into your hearts and minds. That's where you will find it.
HUM you realize those letters where sent to churches who were being deceived by the society around them and by then people in them right.
maybe it isn't quite and simple as you think.
maybe we don't understand our real enemy. and maybe peoples hearts aren't as sweet and innocent as they might pretend to be .
 
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ToBeLoved

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Sometimes I start to feel discouraged when I contemplate what Christianity has become. It seems as if everything man touches becomes corrupt in one way or another. I don't believe that christianity is supposed to be complex, or obscure, or difficult in any way. But just look at it today! All those churches with competing ideas about everything. All those rules. All those millions of pages of written material. Universities offer PhDs in the subject! Yet all that matters is saving the soul of the brother or sister standing next to you. It's insanity.
The thing is George is that we know that this world is not going to get it right. Christians are not always going to get it right, because in the flesh we still fight against the things of the spirit whether we realize it or do not. We know from the Word that this world is not our home. Our home is with our Savior and Lord, so while we are here, things will never be perfect without Christ at the helm in full leadership, because only God can set this world right.

Knowing and understanding that this world will be confusing, incorrect, full of sin and difficult is what the world is when imperfect people fall into sin and follow their own desires. That's when it is difficult, because us as sinners are running the show.

The good news is that our relationship is with out Savior. That is the part of Christianity that you need to look at for the beauty of what Christianity is. God loved us enough to become a man and die for us. To die for our sins so that we could spend eternity with our loving Savior. That our Savior sent the Holy Spirit to indwell in us. That God gave us His Word to guide us. Those things of God are the perfection of Christianity. Look to that for your solace.
 
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Look Up

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Sometimes I start to feel discouraged when I contemplate what Christianity has become. It seems as if everything man touches becomes corrupt in one way or another. I don't believe that christianity is supposed to be complex, or obscure, or difficult in any way. But just look at it today! All those churches with competing ideas about everything. All those rules. All those millions of pages of written material. Universities offer PhDs in the subject! Yet all that matters is saving the soul of the brother or sister standing next to you. It's insanity.

Think for a moment about Jesus teaching His people. He speaks to them during His Sermon On the Mount. Who here would say that any person sitting in that gathering listening to the words of the Lord, and who actually believed what He said, who actually recognized Jesus as Messiah, and who gave himself or herself over to the Lord on that day, was not saved, not a Christian, not as righteous in the eyes of God as any "Billy Graham" or Pope among us?

And that's it, all of it. The Word of God, sincere belief, and a commitment to Jesus Christ is all it takes. There was nothing else necessary then, and there is nothing else necessary now. All the rest of it, all the stained glass, libraries of books, prancing priests, pipe organs, and Sunday picnics are unnecessary. And, they can be dangerous, because they can fool people into thinking that is Christianity, when it isn't.

What I write here is not Christianity, and what St. Paul wrote to the Roman Church isn't Christianity either, regardless of how Divinely inspired it was. To find Christianity, put yourself back on that hillside, and let the Words of the Lord Jesus into your hearts and minds. That's where you will find it.

Jesus told His disciples to teach their disciples to obey whatsoever Jesus had commanded them (Matthew's Great Commission at the end of ch. 28). In Matthew, such commandments are not limited to, but are surely concentrated in the Sermon on the Mount. To be a disciple of Jesus means to obey Jesus' commands.

Yes, I think justification by faith alone is not inconsistent with that, for the justified obey by grace, but to try to keep closer to the topic, (1) disciples of Jesus function together in what is known as the church and (2) obeying Jesus in church context (e.g., per Matthew 16) or influence may entail certain consequences such as pedagogical stained glass windows or Bible commentaries or clergy and so on--even if such things can be a hindrance as well as tools in building God's church. What concrete things might be helpful in baptisms and in making disciples?

Nonetheless there is, I think, much to be discouraged about particularly in the West regarding the spiritual health of the Christian religion (if I can put it that way). If you are looking for encouragement in doing better, one can perhaps start in the route of looking for causes, of which there are many. However helpful that exercise may be as a tool (and it can be if God is pleased to use it to grant repentance), it can also be rather discouraging or end in angry finger pointing--a less than helpful application.

One (other) helpful avenue of encouragement in my experience is holding a broader view of God's work. The West is not the world, only part of it. If the church has problems in my area or in my circles or if bad news travels fast, remember that God is at work in places I may not know--or if I read for example that the church is growing faster than the population (biologically) in most nations of the world outside the West, I am encouraged, as Paul seems to have been in remembering congregations outside his "own" charges (like the one in Colossae). Reading about what God is doing elsewhere (or in other times, for the church of Jesus is one) can lead to thanksgiving to God.

A further thought has already been expressed on this thread in so many words, I think: through endurance and the Scriptures we may have hope (from Rom. 15:4). The author of Hebrews would seem to agree; the church body members are obliged to encourage and exhort each other in order to persevere--in obedience to the commands of Jesus and in prayer.

Yes, the trappings of religion can be abused. Even the bronze serpent meant for good became Nehushtan the idol. Yet the church perseveres because Christ is its builder, and He has commanded us to persevere until the end.

Some years ago there was a wind storm in our area which tore down branches and limbs and whole trees so that the streets were blocked and littered and gaping wounds showed on many remaining trees. I was sad until I remembered that God's trees are still growing. Quietly, such that I do not notice. So with God's kingdom: As a mustard seed or as leaven in a lump of dough.
 
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MWood

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Its traditional. The priests works with Christ. When you go to confession you are speaking to Christ. Now, i do go to confession but, i also believe that God is all forgiving and that if you are truly sorry for your sins and a priest is not available etc then God will forgive you!

As i said before, i dont think the Catholic church is what Jesus wanted when he said to Peter that on this Rock he will build his church! I think it has gone way off what Jesus wanted and meant!
God has already forgiven you your sins. 2000 yrs ago. For the last 2000 yrs it hasn't been about our sins, its about our belief in the Son.
 
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Goatee

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God has already forgiven you your sins. 2000 yrs ago. For the last 2000 yrs it hasn't been about our sins, its about our belief in the Son.

We still need to repent!
 
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Ken Rank

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Ken,
Could you help me to better understand your posting by telling what is meant by "those in the nation who came out"?
Thanks and have a blessed day.

You, me.... we are in the nations but no longer "of them" We are part of His family, part of His Israel. Not a replacement, just part of the family. Like Paul said, "you WERE gentiles" or "were nations" (ethnos) but we are now fellow citizens of the Commonwealth of Israel.
 
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Ken Rank

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So if Paul called us gentiles, then why do we need your translations that are different from Paul's? What is up with that? Why would you not want to stay Biblical?

He said you WERE gentiles, you no longer are. If you belong to Yeshua, you are no longer a gentile, no longer a pagan, no longer part of the nations. That is biblical.
 
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ToBeLoved

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He said you WERE gentiles, you no longer are. If you belong to Yeshua, you are no longer a gentile, no longer a pagan, no longer part of the nations. That is biblical.
But you did not stay Biblical, because you said Paul referred to gentiles as Christians. That was the discussion. I stated that Paul never used the term Christian as you indicated he did.

We are in the family of Christ. It's not Jew or gentile if you want to get that specific. I do not consider myself part of the commonwealth of Israel. In Christ we are part of the Body of Christ, not the body of Israel. Christ does not need to deliniations that you seem to use all the time.

The Body of Christ is just that, the Body of Christ. If you want to consider yourself something else, that is fine, but why push your non-biblical verbage on the rest of us.
 
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Larry Smart

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You, me.... we are in the nations but no longer "of them" We are part of His family, part of His Israel. Not a replacement, just part of the family. Like Paul said, "you WERE gentiles" or "were nations" (ethnos) but we are now fellow citizens of the Commonwealth of Israel.

Thank you for the explanation. What a wonderful family to be part of!
 
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ToBeLoved

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You, me.... we are in the nations but no longer "of them" We are part of His family, part of His Israel. Not a replacement, just part of the family. Like Paul said, "you WERE gentiles" or "were nations" (ethnos) but we are now fellow citizens of the Commonwealth of Israel.

In Christ, the Jew and gentile become one.

I don't see anything about Israel there.
 
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Righttruth

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Since the apostle Paul was personally taught by the risen, glorified, and exalted Christ, we can rest assured that all of his epistles were the Word of God and the Word of Christ.

That is simply his claims!


Peter affirms this in his second epistle and equates ALL Paul's epistles with "the other SCRIPTURES"(2 Pet 3:15-16):

2 Peter is a shaky source! Even when accepted, it does not equate Paul's to Scripture. Scripture ended with the OT. It is now the Holy Spirit and writings!

The entire New Testament is Bible Christianity. Why anyone would question this or doubt it is beyond belief. The Bible is one integrated whole. We either accept all of it, or reject all of it. No one is at liberty to pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not.

Bible is basically a pick and chose compilation of writings!
 
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Righttruth

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Well, the Pauline scriptures are Christianity as Jesus Himself taught it. To reject Paul's writings is to reject Christianity as Jesus Himself taught it. Galatians 1:12

Pauline Christianity is not the way, life and truth that Jesus preached.
 
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Righttruth

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One of the biggest heresies being promoted today by theological liberals is that there is a fundamental conflict between the teachings of Christ and the teachings of His apostle Paul.

That idea is so utterly ridiculous, it does not need any response. But there are many who try to dodge the teachings of Paul by promoting this false dichotomy. There are no contradictions in the Word of God, and it behoves us to search the Scriptures and harmonize them. That does not mean that there are not things "hard to be understood".

Paul never knew the important essence of the preaching of Jesus since he was not a part of the ministry of Christ on earth.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Pauline Christianity is not the way, life and truth that Jesus preached.
That seems to be your opinion, but Paul always preached Christ. Paul never preached of Himself as a matter of fact when you look at Paul's writings there is no other apostle who speaks more of Christ than Paul.

It may be good for you to re-read Paul's writings and 'see for yourself' if he preaches Jesus Christ. I think you will find that what you have thought up to this point is in error.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Paul never knew the important essence of the preaching of Jesus since he was not a part of the ministry of Christ on earth.

Paul knew better than most the importance of preaching Christ. Why? Because as Saul, Paul (new name given to him) he had persecuted and killed the people of God, followers of Christ. After it became known to him the error of what he had done to Christ and his people, Paul embraced the gospel with a furvor that most did not have. That experience gave Paul a rare insight, that of both a Jewish Pharisee (previously) and as an apostle of Jesus Christ.

What verses of scripture are you using to base this on? This idea that Paul did not preach Christ? Surely since you made the claim, you must have some reason and proof of that.
 
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ToBeLoved

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That is simply his claims!

2 Peter is a shaky source! Even when accepted, it does not equate Paul's to Scripture. Scripture ended with the OT. It is now the Holy Spirit and writings!

Bible is basically a pick and chose compilation of writings!

If the Bible ended with the Old Testament as you are saying, than how are you getting your salvation? Have you kept the 10 Commandments perfectly? That is the bar of the Old Testament you know. So how are you saved from hell through the Old Testament brother?
 
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Righttruth

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That seems to be your opinion, but Paul always preached Christ. Paul never preached of Himself as a matter of fact when you look at Paul's writings there is no other apostle who speaks more of Christ than Paul.

Is that so? How much of Jesus' sayings he has recalled in his epistles?

It may be good for you to re-read Paul's writings and 'see for yourself' if he preaches Jesus Christ. I think you will find that what you have thought up to this point is in error.

That is your presupposition, not based on the Gospel.
 
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