“No lie is of the truth” – Really?

D. A. Taylor

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The apostle John wrote how there is only one single Christian “truth”—and all who deny that single truth are not of God:

I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?This is the antichrist [Greek: one who opposes Christ], the one who denies [Greek: contradicts] the Father and the Son. (I John 2:21-22).


Now watch as theologian Albert Barnes brilliantly unmasks our modern "Christianity," which is composed of thousands of differing and contradictory doctrines and beliefs:

No lie is of the truth – No form of error, however plausible it may appear, however ingeniously it may be defended and however much it may seem to be favorable to human virtue and happiness, can be founded in truth. What the apostle says here has somewhat the aspect of a truism, but it contains a real truth of vital importance, and one which should have great influence in determining our minds in regard to any proposed opinion or doctrine.

Error often appears plausible. It seems to be adapted to relieve the mind of many difficulties which perplex and embarrass it on the subject of religion. It seems to be adapted to promote religion. It seems to make those who embrace it happy, and for a time they apparently enjoy religion. But John says that however plausible all this may be, however much it may seem to prove that the doctrines thus embraced are of God, it is a great and vital maxim that no error can have its foundation in truth, and, of course, that it must be worthless.

The grand question is, “what is truth;” and when that is determined, we can easily settle the inquiries which come up about the various doctrines that are abroad in the world. Mere plausible appearances, or temporary good results that may grow out of a doctrine, do not prove that it is based on truth; for whatever those results may be, it is impossible that any error, however plausible, should have its origin in the truth”

Perhaps Mr. Barnes has “nailed” the reason why organized Christianity favors the following beliefs, all of which are plainly contradicted by the words of Jesus Christ:
  • That humans who die "lost" can never be saved and are condemned to Hell
  • The acceptance of a hierarchical ministry in the Christian church
  • A future Tribulation and Second Coming
  • The view that states the thoughts of apostles carry the same weight as the words of Jesus Christ
  • That people are called to Christ through solely through the work of evangelism
Your thoughts?
 

Lukamu

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In college I learned "just because it sounds good doesn't make it right." There are only a few truths that I hold on to (the foundation of faith, for example), while I consider most of my thoughts more like hypotheses. In other words, I agree with your post and Mr. Barnes quote.

Perhaps Mr. Barnes has “nailed” the reason why organized Christianity favors the following beliefs, all of which are plainly contradicted by the words of Jesus Christ:
  • That humans who die "lost" can never be saved and are condemned to Hell
  • The acceptance of a hierarchical ministry in the Christian church
  • A future Tribulation and Second Coming
  • The view that states the thoughts of apostles carry the same weight as the words of Jesus Christ
  • That people are called to Christ through solely through the work of evangelism
1. What part of the Bible suggests that people who die "lost" can be saved?
2. Some are teachers, some prophesy, some servants... Not all are teachers, not all prophesy... It would make sense to have people perform the roles according to the gifts God has given them (but then, is that based on the Bible or on our man-made doctrines?)
3. The book of Revelation, and throughout the Bible, this topic is addressed. Some groups (e.g., Seventh-Day Adventist) may have their own interpretation of what the Bible says.
4. Sometimes it bothers me that my pastor spends a majority of the time talking about what Paul says, rather than what Jesus says, but some people would quote 2 Timothy 3:16.
5. Or that all Christians should be evangelists.
 
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RC1970

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Barnes was put on trial for heresy a couple of times and many of his views are bazaar to say the least. There was a lot of strange revisionist "theology" during the Nineteenth Century. I would be very sceptical of anything coming out of that time period.
 
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D. A. Taylor

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Barnes was put on trial for heresy a couple of times and many of his views are bazaar to say the least. There was a lot of strange revisionist "theology" during the Nineteenth Century. I would be very sceptical of anything coming out of that time period.
Jesus Christ also was put on trial for what he said. Is that the measure of truth?
 
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D. A. Taylor

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In college I learned "just because it sounds good doesn't make it right." There are only a few truths that I hold on to (the foundation of faith, for example), while I consider most of my thoughts more like hypotheses. In other words, I agree with your post and Mr. Barnes quote.


1. What part of the Bible suggests that people who die "lost" can be saved?
2. Some are teachers, some prophesy, some servants... Not all are teachers, not all prophesy... It would make sense to have people perform the roles according to the gifts God has given them (but then, is that based on the Bible or on our man-made doctrines?)
3. The book of Revelation, and throughout the Bible, this topic is addressed. Some groups (e.g., Seventh-Day Adventist) may have their own interpretation of what the Bible says.
4. Sometimes it bothers me that my pastor spends a majority of the time talking about what Paul says, rather than what Jesus says, but some people would quote 2 Timothy 3:16.
5. Or that all Christians should be evangelists.

Question 1:

"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance" (Isa 45:22-23).

For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD" (Rom 14:11).

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (I Tim 2:3-4 -KJV).

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me (John 12:32).

Question 2:

There indeed may be roles, but there certainly is no authority over other brethren:

But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant [Greek: one who waits on tables], and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave (Mat 20:25-27)

Question 4:

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me (John 10:27).

Question 5:

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil (Heb 5:12-14).
 
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RC1970

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Question 1:

"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance" (Isa 45:22-23).

For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD" (Rom 14:11).

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (I Tim 2:3-4 -KJV).

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me (John 12:32).

I see that you are a proponent of universalism. Since this is generally considered a heretical position, I have asked to have the thread moved to Controversial Theology.
 
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fhansen

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The apostle John wrote how there is only one single Christian “truth”—and all who deny that single truth are not of God:

I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?This is the antichrist [Greek: one who opposes Christ], the one who denies [Greek: contradicts] the Father and the Son. (I John 2:21-22).


Now watch as theologian Albert Barnes brilliantly unmasks our modern "Christianity," which is composed of thousands of differing and contradictory doctrines and beliefs:

No lie is of the truth – No form of error, however plausible it may appear, however ingeniously it may be defended and however much it may seem to be favorable to human virtue and happiness, can be founded in truth. What the apostle says here has somewhat the aspect of a truism, but it contains a real truth of vital importance, and one which should have great influence in determining our minds in regard to any proposed opinion or doctrine.

Error often appears plausible. It seems to be adapted to relieve the mind of many difficulties which perplex and embarrass it on the subject of religion. It seems to be adapted to promote religion. It seems to make those who embrace it happy, and for a time they apparently enjoy religion. But John says that however plausible all this may be, however much it may seem to prove that the doctrines thus embraced are of God, it is a great and vital maxim that no error can have its foundation in truth, and, of course, that it must be worthless.

The grand question is, “what is truth;” and when that is determined, we can easily settle the inquiries which come up about the various doctrines that are abroad in the world. Mere plausible appearances, or temporary good results that may grow out of a doctrine, do not prove that it is based on truth; for whatever those results may be, it is impossible that any error, however plausible, should have its origin in the truth”

Perhaps Mr. Barnes has “nailed” the reason why organized Christianity favors the following beliefs, all of which are plainly contradicted by the words of Jesus Christ:
  • That humans who die "lost" can never be saved and are condemned to Hell
  • The acceptance of a hierarchical ministry in the Christian church
  • A future Tribulation and Second Coming
  • The view that states the thoughts of apostles carry the same weight as the words of Jesus Christ
  • That people are called to Christ through solely through the work of evangelism
Your thoughts?
My thought would be that Dr Barne's insight does nothing to gaurantee the unearthing of correct Christian beliefs. Anyone can still accuse anyone else of failing to adhere to his methodology, believing their particular interpretations to be the correct ones, in accordance with the truth. The beat goes on.
 
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D. A. Taylor

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I see that you are a proponent of universalism. Since this is generally considered a heretical position, I have asked to have the thread moved to Controversial Theology.
So you are saying that Jesus, Paul, and Isiah are NOT proponents of universalism--and that these scriptures do not mean what they say?
 
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D. A. Taylor

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My thought would be that Dr Barne's insight does nothing to gaurantee the unearthing of correct Christian beliefs. Anyone can still accuse anyone else of failing to adhere to his methodology, believing their particular interpretations to be the correct ones, in accordance with the truth. The beat goes on.

So should we just roll-over and give up?
 
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D. A. Taylor

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Really? You're going to put Albert Barnes on the same level as Christ?
Not at all. I'm stating that being put on trial does not prove that someone has heretical beliefs. Do you disagree?
 
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timewerx

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No lie is of the truth – No form of error, however plausible it may appear, however ingeniously it may be defended and however much it may seem to be favorable to human virtue and happiness, can be founded in truth. What the apostle says here has somewhat the aspect of a truism, but it contains a real truth of vital importance, and one which should have great influence in determining our minds in regard to any proposed opinion or doctrine.

One must realize that passage is not applicable to the whole Bible because the Bible is a collection of writings by many different authors.
 
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timewerx

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So you are saying that Jesus, Paul, and Isiah are NOT proponents of universalism--and that these scriptures do not mean what they say?

You must realize the synoptic Gospels are more or less influenced by Paul.

The most "neutral" Gospel is only the Book of John from the Johannites early Christian sect who distinguished themselves from early Pauline movement.


The Bible seems to have a verse for every belief (as being discussed in another active thread here), thus, contradictions are to be expected. It's a badly edited book. Someone must have thought having a blindfold while making the Bible Canon is a good idea...
 
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D. A. Taylor

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Timewerx, I think you nailed it.
You must realize the synoptic Gospels are more or less influenced by Paul.

The most "neutral" Gospel is only the Book of John from the Johannites early Christian sect who distinguished themselves from early Pauline movement.


The Bible seems to have a verse for every belief (as being discussed in another active thread here), thus, contradictions are to be expected. It's a badly edited book. Someone must have thought having a blindfold while making the Bible Canon is a good idea...

Timewerx, I think you nailed it.
 
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timewerx

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Timewerx, I think you nailed it.


Timewerx, I think you nailed it.


Thanks D.A. When it comes down to it, the "Christ-ian" theme originated from the old, Ancient Egyptian Myths / Religion. It was simply renamed and revised.

The Christ-ian theology isn't at all related to Judaism/Judeo religion. It was a mistake including the Torah in the Bible.

Why the Jews hated the Ancient Egyptians, Christ, and the Christians are probably all for the same reason - their quite similar theology.

Jesus Christ is actually a melding of two Egyptian deities - Isis and Horus. The miracles of Christ mirrors the capabilities of Isis. While Horus, the virgin birth.

Name of Jesus was formerly "Iesus", Muslims call Him "Isa". Does "Isis" ring a bell??


As Christ Ironically said in John 4:22:

"You Samaritans worship what you do not know..."

Was He lying, of course not, not even today.


It's the foundation of major religions today. Proclaiming to worship one thing but underneath that mask is the very thing they despise.

It's the same thing how the Occult conducts their business. Like the symbol "ying yang" The "Godly" worshiping the devil without their knowledge and the sorcerers dealing with God and they never knew it!.


The truth about the truth is that it doesn't rest in one place!
 
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Job8

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  1. That humans who die "lost" can never be saved and are condemned to Hell
  2. The acceptance of a hierarchical ministry in the Christian church
  3. A future Tribulation and Second Coming
  4. The view that states the thoughts of apostles carry the same weight as the words of Jesus Christ
  5. That people are called to Christ through solely through the work of evangelism
There's a mixture of lies and truth right here, based upon the words of Christ. Points 2 and 5 are indeed false, but the others are absolutely true.

TRUE
The Bible clearly reveals a future Great Tribulation such has never been nor ever will be. The Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory" is an incontrovertible fact. What the apostles wrote (their "thoughts" as we have them) were all words given by Divine inspiration.

FALSE
A clerical hierarchy is false, and people can be saved by simply reading the Bible.
 
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timewerx

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TRUE
The Bible clearly reveals a future Great Tribulation such has never been nor ever will be. The Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory" is an incontrovertible fact. What the apostles wrote (their "thoughts" as we have them) were all words given by Divine inspiration.

While the tribulation is true, the disciples being divinely inspired all the time, including when they wrote parts of the Bible is false.

Consider my questions:

If the same spirit empowered the disciples also empowered us today, why did we turn so different from them?? Why are we not as "inerrant" as they, including Apostle Paul, who barely had a chance to see Christ in the flesh??


My questions give implication of either two things:

- Most of Christianity is being empowered by a counterfeit (evil) spirit. And only relatively few are actually guided by the Holy Spirit.
- Or the apostles are just as fallible and prone to mistakes as we are.

Should we choose ignorance or accepting things without question in Christianity??

That is entirely wrong because such belief dispenses the need for discernment.

Is seeking knowledge evil or is blind faith?? Hosea 4:6.
 
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