No Man hath ascended up to heaven
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
The time spoken of in the verse below came after Christ's resurrection as our forerunner to the resurrection. The reaping from the great harvest of God encompasses all the new covenant age and it isn't a one of reaping at the end of the harvest. Either the departed are reunited bodily with the Lord or they are not and are unconscious of anything.
John 5:28-29 - the time is coming (Post resurrection) that ALL in the grave in Christ will be resurrected to (eternal) life.
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
They did after the cross and after Christ's resurrection. No one on their own merit has ascendeded into heaven, because all were waiting for the messiah to come the first time and raise them up. Daniel 12 has the old covenant saints waiting in their graves for the messiah to come being raised as the first fruits (Matthew 27:52-53).
Therefore after the cross or most importantly after his resurrection the flood gates were opened. Death knows no time and the dead are not hindered by the living, they immediately are raised in a twinkling of an eye.
The dead are not dictated by time, that is, our time.
The liturgy for the departed in the church of the East prayers states that the departed have already migrated from their mortal lives to eternal lives to be with Christ. This is at death. (Hebrews 9:15-17)
When we sign out with our own blood we are in receipt of the promise provided we keep the faith to the death.
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- Aug 21, 2003
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Incorrect! The king read a letter from Elijah written before he was caught up. Here is something I posted above in post #25.
Another way to resolve this apparent contradiction by understanding the Greek. The Greek word ἀναβαίνω/anabaino, translated "has ascended," is in the active voice which means the subject performs the action. Thus no man has ascended to heaven by his own action "but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man."
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended/ἀναβαίνω up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
No on has gone up to heaven by his own effort and merit but he who is the Son of man has done so by his own merit and effort. As he said I will destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.
However the story of Elijah is one that has a different context altogether and Elijah was taken by the chariot in the same way Philip was. He was taken to somewhere else so that Elisha can continue the ministry.
The letter Elijah had sent was after the king that was in power when he was taken up.
After Jehoram succeeded his father Jehoshaphat as king of Judah, "he did that which was evil in the sight of Yahweh" (2 Chron. 21:6 ). [So what else is new?] As a result, "a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet" (v:12 ) telling him that because he had not "walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat," he would be afflicted with a disease of the bowels so severe that his bowels would fall out "day by day" (v:15 )...The only problem is that the parallel story of Elijah and Jehoram in 2 Kings claims that Elijah died during the reign of Jehoshaphat before Jehoram succeeded to the throne. Well, of course, Elijah didn't die. He was "translated" into heaven in a "chariot of fire" (2 Kings 2:11-13 ), but the point is that the biblical account of Elijah's departure from this life occurred in the reign of Jehoshaphat....All of this being true, how did Elijah write a letter to Jehoram after he had succeeded Jehoshaphat?
Is from a distant location that would prevent him from interfering in Elisha's ministry. He was alive and well when he sent that letter because it addressed the actions of a future king, that is, post taking up by the chariot. No dead man's letter can address events that are future related to the actions of the future king.
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There is a little problem with this conclusion. You posted the definition of the English word "begotten" not the Greek word you are "translating" "only begotten" which does not mean begotten or born. The Greek word monogenes is made up of two Greek words mono/only and ginomai, see definition below. Ginomai occurs 672 times in the NT and never once is it translated born or begotten. Therefore this word cannot be used to "prove" that Jesus was created. There no,zero, none verses which say that Jesus was Michael the archangel.
G3439 μονογενής monogenēs mon-og-en-ace
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: - only (begotten, child).
Total KJV occurrences: 9
G1096 γίνομαι ginomai ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (generate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.
Total KJV occurrences: 672
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