Job, saint or sinner, hero or villain?

Job8

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God never calls Job righteous.
Why do people love to contradict God? See Job chapter 1.

1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil... 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Either (a) you have not read this book or (b) you do not believe God.
 
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thankfulttt

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Why do people love to contradict God? See Job chapter 1.

1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil... 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Either (a) you have not read this book or (b) you do not believe God.

Blameless, upright, fearing God, and avoiding evil does not equate to righteous. Jesus said none is good except God. Is Job the exception to this statement? Job was tested. He passed the first test and failed the second.
 
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ebedmelech

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The book of Job shows us that Job's faith was in himself. God said, "Will you condemn me that you might be righteous? It was Job's own righteousness that he had faith in. Job said, "My righteousness I hold fast." Job had faith that there was a God, but he didn't know him, or how to be just with him.
No. I think you read Job wrong there. You have to remember Job has NO KNOWLEDGE that he is being tested....therefore out of his lack of knowledge of WHY the storm hit him, he vented how he felt...but there are plenty of verses that show his faith was in God...consider Job 2:9-10:

9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!”
10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

Then consider Job 19
25 “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26 “Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!

Job spoke from frustration and doubt also...but wouldn't you? Go back and take a look at what had fallen on him.
 
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thankfulttt

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No. I think you read Job wrong there. You have to remember Job has NO KNOWLEDGE that he is being tested....therefore out of his lack of knowledge of WHY the storm hit him, he vented how he felt...but there are plenty of verses that show his faith was in God...consider Job 2:9-10:

9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!”
10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

Two things to consider here.

1. "In all this Job did not sin with his lips." After the first test Job was exonerated from any type of sin, lips or heart, but after the second test only the lips are mentioned.

2. For the whole next chapter Job curses what God has made. The clay instructing the potter. He also desires not to be God's servant anymore. Job 3:19
 
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thankfulttt

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No. I think you read Job wrong there. You have to remember Job has NO KNOWLEDGE that he is being tested....therefore out of his lack of knowledge of WHY the storm hit him, he vented how he felt...but there are plenty of verses that show his faith was in God...consider

Then consider Job 19
25 “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26 “Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!

Job spoke from frustration and doubt also...but "
QUOTE]

In Job 19:25-27 Job is quoting scripture he has heard. Job 42:3 "---therefore have I uttered that I understood not things too wonderful for me, which I knew not."

In Job chapter 19 Job condemns God for being unjust, and God answers Job in Job 40:8 by saying, "Will you condemn me that you might be righteous?"[/
 
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By posting 2 Timothy 3:16 I was trying to make the statement, that if the words of Eliphaz are stated to be scripture, how can he be a liar?

Really!!??
Satan is a liar and his words are in scripture when he tempted Jesus!! It doesn't make what he said true.

I'm not here to argue over Job ( I was actually just going to read through this )

But I saw that and it was a little disheartening.

Thanks!
 
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I'm not here to argue over Job ( I was actually just going to read through this )

But I saw that and it was a little disheartening.

Thanks!
Save yourself the trouble - nine pages of much the same.
 
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thankfulttt

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Really!!??
Satan is a liar and his words are in scripture when he tempted Jesus!! It doesn't make what he said true.

I'm not here to argue over Job ( I was actually just going to read through this )

But I saw that and it was a little disheartening.

Thanks!

Paul never endorsed the words of Satan, but he did endorse the words of Eliphaz. Satan never recited any of the beatitudes either. You need to quote something that the three friends said that were wrong.

I do not understand the strong desire to defend Job even though he exalted himself above God.
 
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ebedmelech

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Some things to consider:

1. After Job's 3 friends sit with him, they begin accusing him of some type of sin as to the reason why things suddenly went against him.

2. Much of what Job is saying in reply to his friends accusations...NOT against God. Job is complaining out of his distress! He's wondering why. Let's not forget what God said to Satan about Job...Job 1:8:
8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

That's God's testimony about Job! Before one gets to tough on what Job has to say about his suffering...REMEMBER what God said of him.
 
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thankfulttt

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Some things to consider:

1. After Job's 3 friends sit with him, they begin accusing him of some type of sin as to the reason why things suddenly went against him.

2. Much of what Job is saying in reply to his friends accusations...NOT against God. Job is complaining out of his distress! He's wondering why. Let's not forget what God said to Satan about Job...Job 1:8:
8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

That's God's testimony about Job! Before one gets to tough on what Job has to say about his suffering...REMEMBER what God said of him.

The three friends had not opened their mouth when Job began cursing. He desired to be free from his master. Job 3:19

Everything God said about Job to Satan was before the second test. After the second test God speaks to Job and charges him with reproving God(Job 40:2), and condemning God while at the same time exalting himself.(Job 40:8)

It was Job's righteousness that was being examined and it failed him after the second test even though he was the most upright man on earth. There is none righteous, no not one. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All our righteousness is as filthy rags.
 
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ebedmelech

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The three friends had not opened their mouth when Job began cursing. He desired to be free from his master. Job 3:19
I don't think you read the passage correctly there though. Job is voicing how he feel after all the disaster hit him. He doesn't curse God either. Look at the context of the passage you quote, which is Job 3:11-19:
11 “Why did I not die at birth, Come forth from the womb and expire?
12 “Why did the knees receive me, And why the breasts, that I should suck?
13 “For now I would have lain down and been quiet; I would have slept then, I would have been at rest,
14 With kings and with counselors of the earth, Who rebuilt ruins for themselves;
15 Or with princes who had gold, Who were filling their houses with silver.
16 “Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, As infants that never saw light.
17 “There the wicked cease from raging, And there the weary are at rest.
18 “The prisoners are at ease together; They do not hear the voice of the taskmaster.
19 “The small and the great are there, And the slave is free from his master.

What you have there, is Job wishing he were never born, as well as wishing he were dead in light of what had happened. You're confusing vs 19...Job is comparing death to a slave being free from his master...NOT him being free from God.
Everything God said about Job to Satan was before the second test. After the second test God speaks to Job and charges him with reproving God(Job 40:2), and condemning God while at the same time exalting himself.(Job 40:8)
Once again I think you're not reading the text in context. God is getting on Job in light of his ignorance of the facts! What I think you're forgetting is that Job speaks from that ignorance (as we do often in time of testing)...so now... as God speaks to Job, God shows Job how ignorant of Him, he really is.

Did you read Job 40:1-5 before you got to v8? This is what it says:
Then the Lord said to Job,
2 “Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty? Let him who reproves God answer it.”
3 Then Job answered the Lord and said,
4 “Behold, I am insignificant; what can I reply to You? I lay my hand on my mouth.
5 “Once I have spoken, and I will not answer; Even twice, and I will add nothing more.”

The minute God questioned Job, he realized his lack of understanding out of his trial, and he shut up!


It was Job's righteousness that was being examined and it failed him after the second test even though he was the most upright man on earth. There is none righteous, no not one. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All our righteousness is as filthy rags.
No. I think you're a bit critical in saying Job failed the second trial. He had lost all of his property and his children died in a calamity in the first one. The he gets struck with boils.

I have six children...and if all six of them were to be killed like that and I lose everything, I'd hate to think how I would feel. Then...to make matters worse I get a bunch of boils all over??? I'm not so sure I wouldn't hate my life just a Job did.

How would you feel if every member of your family died and then to top it, you lose everything and you get struck with boils?

Job's righteousness was NOT being examined...Job's FAITH was being examined. I think you've read from a wrong idea of what's really happening.
 
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thankfulttt

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I don't think you read the passage correctly there though. Job is voicing how he feel after all the disaster hit him. He doesn't curse God either. Look at the context of the passage you quote, which is Job 3:11-19:
11 “Why did I not die at birth, Come forth from the womb and expire?
12 “Why did the knees receive me, And why the breasts, that I should suck?
13 “For now I would have lain down and been quiet; I would have slept then, I would have been at rest,
14 With kings and with counselors of the earth, Who rebuilt ruins for themselves;
15 Or with princes who had gold, Who were filling their houses with silver.
16 “Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, As infants that never saw light.
17 “There the wicked cease from raging, And there the weary are at rest.
18 “The prisoners are at ease together; They do not hear the voice of the taskmaster.
19 “The small and the great are there, And the slave is free from his master.

What you have there, is Job wishing he were never born, as well as wishing he were dead in light of what had happened. You're confusing vs 19...Job is comparing death to a slave being free from his master...NOT him being free from God.

Once again I think you're not reading the text in context. God is getting on Job in light of his ignorance of the facts! What I think you're forgetting is that Job speaks from that ignorance (as we do often in time of testing)...so now... as God speaks to Job, God shows Job how ignorant of Him, he really is.

Did you read Job 40:1-5 before you got to v8? This is what it says:
Then the Lord said to Job,
2 “Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty? Let him who reproves God answer it.”
3 Then Job answered the Lord and said,
4 “Behold, I am insignificant; what can I reply to You? I lay my hand on my mouth.
5 “Once I have spoken, and I will not answer; Even twice, and I will add nothing more.”

The minute God questioned Job, he realized his lack of understanding out of his trial, and he shut up!



No. I think you're a bit critical in saying Job failed the second trial. He had lost all of his property and his children died in a calamity in the first one. The he gets struck with boils.

I have six children...and if all six of them were to be killed like that and I lose everything, I'd hate to think how I would feel. Then...to make matters worse I get a bunch of boils all over??? I'm not so sure I wouldn't hate my life just a Job did.

How would you feel if every member of your family died and then to top it, you lose everything and you get struck with boils?

Job's righteousness was NOT being examined...Job's FAITH was being examined. I think you've read from a wrong idea of what's really happening.

There is not one utterance of faith by Job in the whole third chapter. To the three friends Job had become a hypocrite and was the reason for their statements. Job had preached faith in God to everyone else, but when calamity befell him he showed no faith.

Job listened to eight chapters of chastisement, in silence, before he made the statement that he would close his mouth.

Job lost ten children and never complained to God about them. It was only after the second test where Job's body was the target that he fell apart. Job never questioned God about his children.

Job's faith was in his own righteousness, and not God's righteousness. This fact is plainly evident in Job 40:8.

Why is it everybody wants to give Job a free pass on every thing he said? Job said God was unjust.(Job 9:17) Job said God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.(Job 9:23) Job said he didn't know how to be just with God.(9:2) Job was trying to be just through his own righteousness.

Read chapter twenty nine and see how Job glorifies himself.
 
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ebedmelech

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There is not one utterance of faith by Job in the whole third chapter. To the three friends Job had become a hypocrite and was the reason for their statements. Job had preached faith in God to everyone else, but when calamity befell him he showed no faith.
Obviously you don't read the passage...you read into it. Chapter 3 has nothing to do with faith towards God or anyone else. What you have there is Job voicing how he feels after all the tragedies befell him.

When it comes to his 3 friends you simply have believers saying "this happened to you because you sinned". It's been going on before Job and it goes on today. Saints thinking they know why a fellow saint is suffering, when they know nothing.

Job listened to eight chapters of chastisement, in silence, before he made the statement that he would close his mouth.
No. Once again read the entire book. Job is constantly answering his friends Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar's allegations against him this is how it goes:

Eliphaz - Chapters 4/5

Job answers- Chapter 6/7

Bildad - Chapter 8

Job answers - Chapter 9/10

Zophar - Chapter 11

Job answers - Chapter 12/13/14

Eliphaz - Chapter 15

Job answers - Chapter 16/17

Bildad - Chapter 18

Job answers - Chapter 19

Zophar - Chapter 20

Job answers - Chapter 21

Eliphaz - Chapter 22

Job answers - Chapter 23/24

Bildad - Chapter 25

Job answers - Chapter 26-31

So you actually have 28 chapters of Job's friends making accusations and Job answering them after each allegation.

The one person that really had made a right evaluation is the younger man Elihu who speaks beginning at chapter 32:6 - 37. He is the only one God said nothing to because what he said was right.
Job lost ten children and never complained to God about them. It was only after the second test where Job's body was the target that he fell apart. Job never questioned God about his children.

Job's faith was in his own righteousness, and not God's righteousness. This fact is plainly evident in Job 40:8.

Why is it everybody wants to give Job a free pass on every thing he said? Job said God was unjust.(Job 9:17) Job said God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.(Job 9:23) Job said he didn't know how to be just with God.(9:2) Job was trying to be just through his own righteousness.

Read chapter twenty nine and see how Job glorifies himself.
What you need to do is read, and keep track of who's saying what. It's obvious you don't get a lot of what's going on.

When Job was struck with the boils...if one is reading the text...that's the point at which Job was broken.

For instance...after Job was struck with boils Job 2:10 say this:
10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

I suggest you read Job again because you're really over critical of him. Obviously Job had some self righteousness in his rebuttals to his friends...but he was defending himself to his friends...not God.

As I proved...when God appeared and spoke...Job shut up.

Perhaps you should read this, as it rightly summarizes the chapters:
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/index.php?action=getBookSections&cid=35


This is another excellent exposition of Job:
http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?com=mhc&b=18&c=1

Be blessed by them!
 
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thankfulttt

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Obviously you don't read the passage...you read into it. Chapter 3 has nothing to do with faith towards God or anyone else. What you have there is Job voicing how he feels after all the tragedies befell him.

When it comes to his 3 friends you simply have believers saying "this happened to you because you sinned". It's been going on before Job and it goes on today. Saints thinking they know why a fellow saint is suffering, when they know nothing.


No. Once again read the entire book. Job is constantly answering his friends Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar's allegations against him this is how it goes:

Eliphaz - Chapters 4/5

Job answers- Chapter 6/7

Bildad - Chapter 8

Job answers - Chapter 9/10

Zophar - Chapter 11

Job answers - Chapter 12/13/14

Eliphaz - Chapter 15

Job answers - Chapter 16/17

Bildad - Chapter 18

Job answers - Chapter 19

Zophar - Chapter 20

Job answers - Chapter 21

Eliphaz - Chapter 22

Job answers - Chapter 23/24

Bildad - Chapter 25

Job answers - Chapter 26-31

So you actually have 28 chapters of Job's friends making accusations and Job answering them after each allegation.

The one person that really had made a right evaluation is the younger man Elihu who speaks beginning at chapter 32:6 - 37. He is the only one God said nothing to because what he said was right.

What you need to do is read, and keep track of who's saying what. It's obvious you don't get a lot of what's going on.

When Job was struck with the boils...if one is reading the text...that's the point at which Job was broken.

For instance...after Job was struck with boils Job 2:10 say this:
10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

I suggest you read Job again because you're really over critical of him. Obviously Job had some self righteousness in his rebuttals to his friends...but he was defending himself to his friends...not God.

As I proved...when God appeared and spoke...Job shut up.

Perhaps you should read this, as it rightly summarizes the chapters:
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/index.php?action=getBookSections&cid=35


This is another excellent exposition of Job:
http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?com=mhc&b=18&c=1

Be blessed by them!

Since we obviously are not communicating very well to one another can you answer this one question? Whose righteousness was Job depending on for his salvation?
 
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ebedmelech

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Since we obviously are not communicating very well to one another can you answer this one question? Whose righteousness was Job depending on for his salvation?
It's not the communication, it's how you're reading Job. Let the text speak to you!

The answer to your question is Job 19:23-27:
23 “Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book!
24 “That with an iron stylus and lead They were engraved in the rock forever!
25 “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26 “Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!

Job KNEW and TRUSTED God as his redeemer!

Now...you answer this:

If Job was as self righteous as you say and wasn't trusting God...why did God restore Job at the last??? Why did God call Job HIS SERVANT in the end???
 
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It's not the communication, it's how you're reading Job. Let the text speak to you!

The answer to your question is Job 19:23-27:
23 “Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book!
24 “That with an iron stylus and lead They were engraved in the rock forever!
25 “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26 “Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!

Job KNEW and TRUSTED God as his redeemer!

Now...you answer this:

If Job was as self righteous as you say and wasn't trusting God...why did God restore Job at the last??? Why did God call Job HIS SERVANT in the end???

You have ignored the first 22 verses of chapter 19. Job said, "He has destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and my hope he has removed like a tree."(Job 19:10) The verses you quoted come under the heading of this verse. "--therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things to wonderful for me, that I knew not."(Job 42:3)

Job condemned God's righteousness and exalted his own. This is why God said to Job, "will you condemn me that you might be righteous?"(Job 40:8)

Job said, "My righteousness I hold fast, and shall not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live."(Job 27:6) We know this wasn't true because Job called himself vile, and abhorred himself when he repented. Repentance comes before salvation. Job was saved when he repented.(2 Corinthians 7:10/2 Timothy 2:25)

Elihu said, "Think this to be right, that you said, My righteousness is more than God's?"(Job 35:2)

The book of Job is about the most self righteous man not being able to save himself. Christ did not come for the righteous, but for sinners. It becomes obvious that Job's righteousness failed him by the third chapter. He was no longer the man that was proclaimed to be blameless and upright. When Job repented salvation came and Job was made whole again.
 
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ebedmelech

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You have ignored the first 22 verses of chapter 19. Job said, "He has destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and my hope he has removed like a tree."(Job 19:10) The verses you quoted come under the heading of this verse. "--therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things to wonderful for me, that I knew not."(Job 42:3)
No I didn't. The first 22 verses are Job saying what he *thinks* God has done to him. Once again you're not factoring in the fact that Job has no idea that God has him being tested by Satan to see if he will curse God, (which he never does).
Job condemned God's righteousness and exalted his own. This is why God said to Job, "will you condemn me that you might be righteous?"(Job 40:8)
You simply don't get what's going on there! God is using sarcasm at Job *if* you hold the context. Job has just shut his mouth in Job 40:4-5. God then ask Job these questions in Job 40:6-9:
6 Then the Lord answered Job out of the storm and said,
7 “Now gird up your loins like a man; I will ask you, and you instruct Me.
8 “Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?
9 “Or do you have an arm like God, And can you thunder with a voice like His?

They are questions presented to Job to show him what he doesn't know
Job said, "My righteousness I hold fast, and shall not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live."(Job 27:6) We know this wasn't true because Job called himself vile, and abhorred himself when he repented. Repentance comes before salvation. Job was saved when he repented.(2 Corinthians 7:10/2 Timothy 2:25)
What we KNOW is true is what another poster said to you...and that's what God said of Job to Satan before anything happened...Job 1:8:
8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

God Himself says there was NO ONE ON EARTH like Job...so you're wrong.
Elihu said, "Think this to be right, that you said, My righteousness is more than God's?"(Job 35:2)
Except Job never said that...so Elihu is wrong there.
The book of Job is about the most self righteous man not being able to save himself. Christ did not come for the righteous, but for sinners. It becomes obvious that Job's righteousness failed him by the third chapter. He was no longer the man that was proclaimed to be blameless and upright. When Job repented salvation came and Job was made whole again.
It's obvious you're not reading Job properly, holding all the facts in mind. If you did that you'd see how mistaken you are about Job. Simply listen to what God said when it all ends...Job 42:7
7 It came about after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has.

Now...God says Job spoke right...you say Job is self righteous...it seems to me you have a real disconnect from what God said.
 
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No I didn't. The first 22 verses are Job saying what he *thinks* God has done to him. Once again you're not factoring in the fact that Job has no idea that God has him being tested by Satan to see if he will curse God, (which he never does).

You simply don't get what's going on there! God is using sarcasm at Job *if* you hold the context. Job has just shut his mouth in Job 40:4-5. God then ask Job these questions in Job 40:6-9:
6 Then the Lord answered Job out of the storm and said,
7 “Now gird up your loins like a man; I will ask you, and you instruct Me.
8 “Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?
9 “Or do you have an arm like God, And can you thunder with a voice like His?

They are questions presented to Job to show him what he doesn't know

What we KNOW is true is what another poster said to you...and that's what God said of Job to Satan before anything happened...Job 1:8:
8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

God Himself says there was NO ONE ON EARTH like Job...so you're wrong.

Except Job never said that...so Elihu is wrong there.

It's obvious you're not reading Job properly, holding all the facts in mind. If you did that you'd see how mistaken you are about Job. Simply listen to what God said when it all ends...Job 42:7
7 It came about after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has.

Now...God says Job spoke right...you say Job is self righteous...it seems to me you have a real disconnect from what God said.

In your defense of Job you have fixated on the contents of two verses. The contents of the first verse says Job was blameless and upright. Well he was until the third chapter. We know that Job didn't remain in that state because he is admonished by both his judge(Elihu) and God. The contents of the second verse comes at the end of the book and is telling us that Job has repented and the three friends have not.

Job charged God foolishly after the second test. This cannot be denied. In Job 40:2 God said Job reproved him.

Job elevated himself in chapter 29.

Job 29:7
Job 29:8
Job 29:9
Job 29:10
Job 29:11
Job 29:12
Job 29:13
Job 29:14
Job 29:15
Job 29:16
Job 29:17
Job 29:18
Job 29:19
Job 29:20
Job 29:21
Job 29:22
Job 29:23
Job 29:24
Job 29:25

Compare Deuteronomy 32:3 with what Job is saying in Job 29 and you can clearly see that Job is ascribing greatness to himself while Moses ascribes greatness to God.

While Job elevated himself he charged God with being unjust. Job 9:23
 
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Laureate

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Whew! I made it, I read it all, Now I must go take a break, release some of that tension, but don't you worry, I'll be back soon, good stuff by the way!

O.k.

Brinny said...

"Well---God liked Job---that's about as good a reference as you can get! And God did not kill Job's children----
Satan did. God, however, allowed Satan to do whatever, within limits. And Satan did everything he could. Where does it say Job was fat??

"Well---God liked Job---"
I think 'Very pleased with Job' might be a little more accurate, which is something all living beings could profit from, if only they could aspire to please Elohym..

Before Y'shua came along and provided us insight on some important core principles of our faith, Ea'huah Elohym identified only three Righteous biblical characters, and presented them to us as an example for all to follow, especially as it pertains to attaining unto Salvation in times of trouble.

"The word of Ea'huah came again to me, saying,

Son of man, when the land sins against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, says Ea'huah Elohym.

If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:

Though these three men were in it, as I live, says Ea'huah Elohym, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.

Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:

Though these three men were in it, as I live, says Ea'huah Elohym, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.

Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:

Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, says Ea'huah Elohym, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness." [Ezekeil 14:12-20]

To say anything amiss about Job, would be saying something amiss about one whom Ea'huah Elohym places in the same faith bracket as the Righteousness of Noah, and Daniel, not to mention all the other Righteous biblical characters that didn't make it to this divine list of examples to follow.

A man of whom Elohym said...

"...there is no one like him in the earth, a perfect and upright [= righteous] man, one who fears Elohym, and avoids evil..."
 
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Laureate

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Then again Brinny said...

"...God did not kill Job's children----
Satan did. God, however, allowed Satan to do whatever, within limits. And Satan did everything he could."

These are not the words of one who knows their scripture, but of one who presumes Satan is to be accredited with performing anything good or bad;

Satan said, to Elohym, 'put forth your hand, and Elohym consented,'

Job said, 'Ea'huah gave, and Ea'huah has taken away, and heaven says, Job did not sin or accuse Ea'huah Elohym falsely'',

Then Ea'huah Elohym himself said, 'although you moved me against him, to destroy him without a cause.'

Thus by the mouth of two or three let it be known, that Satan did nothing to Job, the Sabeans did nothing to Job, the Chaldeans did nothing to Job, the fire that fell from heaven did nothing to Job, and the tornado also did nothing to Job;

It was Ea'huah Elohym who did these things to Job, every one, and thing else involved only constituted the means, and how Elohym did what he did.

I also believe Job's harmonic righteous perspective of who did anything unto him, is a crucial reason why Elohym made Job an example to follow;

For Ea'huah says...

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no Elohym beside me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there anyone who can deliver out of my hand." [Deuteronomy 32:39]

"I am Ea'huah [Existence], and there is nothing else, there is no Elohym [Divine Being existing] beside me: I have girded you, though you have not recognized me:

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is nothing beside me. I am Ea'huah [Existence], and there is nothing else.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I Ea'huah [Existence] do all these things." [Isaiah 45:5-7]

"This is why Ea'huah has established the Adversaries of Rezin against them, and joins his enemies together;

The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his Anger is not turned away, but his Hand is stretched out still.

Because the people do not turn unto the one who is Smiting them, neither do they seek the Host of Ea'huah" [Isaiah 9:11-13]

"...his Hand is stretched out still..."
In the case with Job, Satan says, put forth your Hand, and Elohym consented.

In the case where Israel, and Egypt are aflicted by the Assyrians, Elohym proclaims that the Assyrians are performing the work of his hands.

"In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the Host of Ea'huah, which he shakes over it.

"And Ea'huah shall Smite Egypt: he shall Smite and heal it: and they shall return even to Ea'huah, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.

In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

Whom the Host of Ea'huah shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance." [Isaiah 19:22-25]

And as Paul said...

"…the messenger of Satan (was sent) to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." [2nd Corinthians 12:7]

For the beginning of Wisdom is the ירא [prophetic vision, instruction, reverence, fear] of Elohym, yet what could Elohym possibly be afraid of?

"Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, that their adversaries would inadvertently behave themselves strangely, and they would inadvertently say, Our hand is high, and Ea'huah did not perform all this." [Deuteronomy 32:27]

The days of blaming Satan for anything are over, they called the Master of the house Beelzebub, a surname for Satan;

And when the Master of the house comes, that is how he will appear unto them, seeing how he is also known for handing individuals over to their fears, imaginations, and judgements.
 
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