Planned Parenthood doesn't profit from tissue sales - per NY Times

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PapaZoom

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Even the full versions have time stamp issues on them. The con men say that these were just "dead spaces" in the conversation like when someone excused themselves or when they were talking to the wait staff but, who knows ?
We don't, that's who
We know what was said so why speculate on what you don't know?

You know what else is legal ?
Abortion.

Slavery was legal. So what? It's not about the legality of it. It's about the morality of it.

Legal doesn't' really matter so much as how one see's things. I see edited, undercover taping by "journalists" (and that label is a stretch in this case) as sleazy and a con job.

Your opinion which I reject.

I'm not alone in that view.
Of course you're not. There are many people on both sides of this issue.

Since they're pro's and didn't the work blind (they we're told who the transcribing was for) yeah, I do.
That's funny. You're appealing to authority. Let's see how you do when the Center for Medical Progress hires a conservative firm to do its own analysis. I suspect the left will cry foul. You'd have the fox guarding the chicken coop.

I don't know who you trust other then the sleazy con men who took this video and then edited it so it fit your narrative but yeah, I kind of trust the governmental agency that investigated this and filed an open an transparent report before I'd trust the con man

You should look up "Poisoning the Well"

My ideology is Catholicism and in Catholicism we don't bear false witness and feel that abortion is enough of an evil in and of itself so that trumping up stuff like this isn't necessary to actually fight against it.

So are you saying you are pro-life?

It isn't a slur if they're actually doing it.
It is if they are not doing it and just because you say it doesn't make it so.

It isn't a slur if they're actually doing it and admitting that they are or did. You can call a guys who misrepresents himself, secretly videos people talking about medically gross stuff, edits it for maximum impact and then releases it without asking permission of the people in it thus putting them in harm's way of the more, shall we say, unstable members of the pro-life movement, and call them a hero.

You think this would work: Undercover Video Guy to PP exec: "Hi, I'm pretending to be a buyer for a fake bio-tech firm and we are secretly taping you right now. Can I ask you a few questions? We'd like to buy some baby parts.

But to me their just con men blackmailers doing con men blackmailer stuff.

Based on extensive research I presume.
 
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frenchdefense

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We know what was said so why speculate on what you don't know?

Um,

because leaving out segments of the tape can, you know, change the context and meaning of what was said ?


Slavery was legal. So what? It's not about the legality of it. It's about the morality of it.

Well, yeah, that's my point.

Your opinion which I reject.

Of course you will. That was the post that started this conversation. Remember ?

Of course you're not. There are many people on both sides of this issue.

Precisely correct, but I'm only interested in a subset of them.

That's funny. You're appealing to authority. Let's see how you do when the Center for Medical Progress hires a conservative firm to do its own analysis. I suspect the left will cry foul. You'd have the fox guarding the chicken coop
.

Call me out when it happens, otherwise, you're making an assumption which as a common know affect on both of us.

You should look up "Poisoning the Well"


Not sure what this is about but ok...

"Poisoning the Well" is the seventh episodes of the first season of Stargate: Atlantis.

SynopsisEdit
The Atlantis expedition makes first contact with the Hoffans, who have developed adrug to prevent the Wraith from feeding on their "food supply". Dr. Carson Beckett helps them perfect it, but discovers a few unforeseeable side effects.


So are you saying you are pro-life?

I don't like to associate myself with the "pro-life" movement. I prefer to self-identify as "anti-abortion"

It is if they are not doing it and just because you say it doesn't make it so.

They have admitted they misrepresented themselves, secretly taped several conversations, turned over admitted incomplete vids of those conversations and post the faces of people in those conversations without permission.

What more does one need then their own admissions to brand them as con men ?

You think this would work: Undercover Video Guy to PP exec: "Hi, I'm pretending to be a buyer for a fake bio-tech firm and we are secretly taping you right now. Can I ask you a few questions? We'd like to buy some baby parts.

I don't know, has anyone actually tired it ? If Planned Parenthood is the evil, corrupt, eugenics spewing, greedy death mill some people say it is, it might.

Based on extensive research I presume.
I don't have to do much research when they actually admit doing it all in public on a youtube channel.
 
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MikeK

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I have enjoyed my two morning drinks, a clamdigger and a Hacker Pshorr Oktoberfest. I'd like to get something done today though. It always strikes me as remarkable how much people will argue about who to kill. Poster A says we should slaughter all the Muslims in countries that harbor terrorists, poster B says it's okay to kill the unborn sometimes, Poster C claims to be pro-life but supports human tortue and Poster D says the death penalty as practiced in the West is a-ok. Where are the pro-lifers?

...and further, where are the on-topic posters? The topic of this thread is whether PP profits from selling tissues (something I've seen no evidence of) and not a single person has addressed that topic.
 
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Hetta

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This tired counter point... Every abortion that's ever been done in the history of abortions have all been done to save the life of the woman... And pro life is the lier? I frankly don't care if they get lied on... Who are they to cry foul? They KILL people! They're going to take the moral stand against liers? They're murderers.
All of your hyperbole is just basically libel.
 
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frenchdefense

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Larniavc

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I frankly don't care if they get lied on

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Have fun explaining that to God.
 
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frenchdefense

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Because the Vatican trusts EWTN, and because there's no reason why a Catholic would not trust them.

Really ?

EWTN doesn't even claim itself to be a news station. It's unabashedly a Catholic oriented programming station.

So how am I to trust it as a unbiased source of anything ?

Basically it's not even the Churches views but Sister Angelica's.

..and from what I've seen they aren't always the same.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Really ?

EWTN doesn't even claim itself to be a news station. It's unabashedly a Catholic oriented programming station.

So how am I to trust it as a unbiased source of anything ?

Basically it's not even the Churches views but Sister Angelica's.

..and from what I've seen they aren't always the same.
It's Mother Angelica not "Sister Angelica." And because of her old age and fragile health (she is 92 years old now) it's been over a decade since Mother Angelica has been in charge of EWTN. She stepped down from control of EWTN in 2000. No one is unbiased. Anyone who claims to have no bias is lying. What matters is whether or not the contents of the article are the truth. And EWTN is reliable for telling the truth.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Have fun explaining that to God.
I don't see where she lied.
 
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MikeK

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I don't see where she lied.

The liars in question were those who lied to PP agents about their interest in purchasing fetal tissue for medical and scientific use, and then suggested that PP was selling human remains for profit.
 
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Larniavc

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I don't see where she lied.

If you read benedictaoo's and then my following post you will see that I did not accuse anyone of lying: moreover benedictaoo appeared to be supporting lying and I pointed out how God hates liars.
 
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Antigone

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Why are so many people here convinced that being pro-life means believing in these videos? They should be scrutinised by pro-lifers. If they turn out to be a hoax they'll do a lot of damage to a movement already perceived by many as hysterical and hypocritical. Instead, anyone who questions them is slandered and has to provide his or her pro-life credentials. That's insane. Guys, what have you got to lose in at least allowing for the possibility that maybe these videos are not entirely honest? Does it make abortion less of an abomination if they are?

Instead, everyone reverts to tired old NYT bashing. Yes, it's a liberal newspaper. That doesn't mean its investigative techniques are flawed by default.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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The liars in question were those who lied to PP agents about their interest in purchasing fetal tissue for medical and scientific use, and then suggested that PP was selling human remains for profit.
Planned Parenthood has claimed that the USCCB is wrong in what they have said about PP. So between PP and what the bishops have said who do you think is the liar?
 
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PapaZoom

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Um, because leaving out segments of the tape can, you know, change the context and meaning of what was said ?

Then demonstrate this with facts. Hypothetical are not facts.

Well, yeah, that's my point.
Then you and I disagree on the point of abortion and morality. You think it moral, I say it's immoral.

Call me out when it happens, otherwise, you're making an assumption which as a common know affect on both of us.

Well you're already appealing to an authority and suggesting that since they are "experts" they must be right.



Not sure what this is about but ok...
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/141-poisoning-the-well

Your posts are riddled with this fallacy

I don't like to associate myself with the "pro-life" movement. I prefer to self-identify as "anti-abortion"

Then how can you defend PP?


They have admitted they misrepresented themselves, secretly taped several conversations, turned over admitted incomplete vids of those conversations and post the faces of people in those conversations without permission.

By misrepresenting themselves you mean they posed as buyer and not as a group that wanted to expose what's really going in behind the curtain at PP. Gee, I wonder why they would do that? Probably because they wouldn't get to the truth otherwise. They did turn over the complete videos. And you don't need permission. Even if they did (which they don't) the evil things we learned about PP and the horrors of abortion is what matters. Objection to the videos is like objecting to videos smuggled out of concentration camps showing the horrors of the holocaust. It's silly to even suggest they should ask for permission. PP is killing unborn humans by the millions.

What more does one need then their own admissions to brand them as con men ?

By your definition, this Polish social worker who saved 2,500 Jewish babies and children from the Nazi death camps is a con-woman. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/mar/15/secondworldwar.poland


I don't know, has anyone actually tired it ? If Planned Parenthood is the evil, corrupt, eugenics spewing, greedy death mill some people say it is, it might.

Amazing

I don't have to do much research when they actually admit doing it all in public on a youtube channel.

And the fact that they were exposing barbaric practices by and organization that gets a huge part of its operating revenue by killing the unborn doesn't matter to you.
 
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frenchdefense

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Then demonstrate this with facts. Hypothetical are not facts.

Look PZ, There's, like professionals out there who are saying there are issues with this vid on several levels this whole thread is based on this one fact.

What more do I need to do ?

Then you and I disagree on the point of abortion and morality. You think it moral, I say it's immoral.

I double dog dare you to back that statement up with one post, just one, that I've ever posted on this board.

Or I demand an apology.

Or pistols at dawn

Whichever.

Well you're already appealing to an authority and suggesting that since they are "experts" they must be right.

Well, appealing to an expert is a well known technique in settling an argument. Except here in 21st Century America where science isn't and facts have a well known liberal bias.


Next time be more specific when you ask me to do research so I know what you're looking for.


Your posts are riddled with this fallacy

Like, for instance..... ?


Then how can you defend PP?

Well, pretty much because for about one women in 5 they are the only primary health care and reproductive health care provider available. I mean, seriously, if your REALLY hate Planned Parenthood so much you should enthusiastically support the ACA. Blocking the community health and Medicare provisions just drives women into Planned Parenthood's medical clinics.

But that would mean, you know, giving the Black man in the white house a win on the issue so...

By misrepresenting themselves you mean they posed as buyer and not as a group that wanted to expose what's really going in behind the curtain at PP. Gee, I wonder why they would do that? Probably because they wouldn't get to the truth otherwise. They did turn over the complete videos. And you don't need permission. Even if they did (which they don't) the evil things we learned about PP and the horrors of abortion is what matters. Objection to the videos is like objecting to videos smuggled out of concentration camps showing the horrors of the holocaust. It's silly to even suggest they should ask for permission. PP is killing unborn humans by the millions.

That's an opinion, and I suppose a valid one but then again we have those pesky time stamp issues on the originals....

By your definition, this Polish social worker who saved 2,500 Jewish babies and children from the Nazi death camps is a con-woman. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/mar/15/secondworldwar.poland

Well, yes she was, so were Raul Wallenberg and Oksar Schinlder. Actually I consider Raul Wallenberg to have pulled of the greatest con job the 20th century

They were just my kind of Con person. Now, maybe these guys are your ind of con people, which is ok with me as long as you have the intellectual honesty to admit it.



Yes, it was an interesting thought on my part, wasn't it ?

And the fact that they were exposing barbaric practices by and organization that gets a huge part of its operating revenue by killing the unborn doesn't matter to you.[/QUOTE]

If you look at Planned Parenthood's own financial statements (Which I think are audited) they basically break even on abortion services.

Now, I know, they're a corrupt, evil, breeding killing machine but, it IS an audited set of financials and can't even get an audited set of financials out of my archdiocese (or for that matter even my parish) so it's kind of hard for me to dispute with any credibility.
 
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PapaZoom

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Look PZ, There's, like professionals out there who are saying there are issues with this vid on several levels this whole thread is based on this one fact.

What more do I need to do ?
The firm was hired by PP and is known for the support of the Democratic party. So I'd say you need to show an unbiased source.


I double dog dare you to back that statement up with one post, just one, that I've ever posted on this board.
Or I demand an apology.
Or pistols at dawn
Whichever.

How about a pillow fight?


Well, appealing to an expert is a well known technique in settling an argument. Except here in 21st Century America where science isn't and facts have a well known liberal bias.

It's also considered a logical fallacy to suggest that just because someone is an "expert" that they are telling the truth.

Next time be more specific when you ask me to do research so I know what you're looking for.

Well I thought you knew. My bad.

Like, for instance..... ?

Did you not read what poisoning the well means? I'll point it out everytime I see it in the future.

Well, pretty much because for about one women in 5 they are the only primary health care and reproductive health care provider available. I mean, seriously, if your REALLY hate Planned Parenthood so much you should enthusiastically support the ACA. Blocking the community health and Medicare provisions just drives women into Planned Parenthood's medical clinics.

I don't believe this is true. For every one PP there are 20 community health care centers and PP has pulled their facilities out of many areas.

But that would mean, you know, giving the Black man in the white house a win on the issue so...
And we now have the race card.


That's an opinion, and I suppose a valid one but then again we have those pesky time stamp issues on the originals....

Focus on what you know and what was said, not on your conspiracies.

"By your definition, this Polish social worker who saved 2,500 Jewish babies and children from the Nazi death camps is a con-woman. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/mar/15/secondworldwar.poland"

Well, yes she was, so were Raul Wallenberg and Oksar Schinlder.

They were just my kind of Con person. Now, maybe these guys are you kind of con people, which is ok with me as long as you have the intellectual honesty to admit it.

It's baffling how far you go to protect PP even though you claim to be anit-abortion.



Yes, it was an interesting thought on my part, wasn't it ?
Not in a good way.

If you look at Planned Parenthood's own financial statements (Which I think are audited) they basically break even on abortion services.

That's laughable.

Now, I know, they're a corrupt, evil, breeding killing machine but, it IS an audited set of financials and can't even get an audited set of financials out of my archdiocese (or for that matter even my parish) so it's kind of hard for me to dispute with any credibility.

Yeah, so what that they butcher the unborn. They know how to keep their financial books tidy.
 
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frenchdefense

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....and I should trust EWTN over any other news source because......?


(Also this article is a tribute to Goodwin's Law it only took 16 words before NAZI were mentioned)
The firm was hired by PP and is known for the support of the Democratic party. So I'd say you need to show an unbiased source.




How about a pillow fight?




It's also considered a logical fallacy to suggest that just because someone is an "expert" that they are telling the truth.



Well I thought you knew. My bad.



Did you not read what poisoning the well means? I'll point it out everytime I see it in the future.



I don't believe this is true. For every one PP there are 20 community health care centers and PP has pulled their facilities out of many areas.


And we now have the race card.




Focus on what you know and what was said, not on your conspiracies.



It's baffling how far you go to protect PP even though you claim to be anit-abortion.




Not in a good way.



That's laughable.



Yeah, so what that they butcher the unborn. They know how to keep their financial books tidy.

Ok, let me sum up here:

You're not going to accept an expert opinion,
You won't apologize for accusing me of stuff I didn't do
You don't have a firm enough grasp on the health situation in this country to even count community health centers or access to reproductive health
You'll dismiss any fact having to do with Planned Parenthood out of hand as false
and you don't understand rhetorical discourse


Hey, I admit it you've out lasted by interest in pursuing this conversion.

I guess that means you have bragging rights to claim you beat down an opponent of the pro=life movement with your superior abilities.

go ye forth.
 
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