Food storage

FreeinChrist · Aug 28, 2015

I was reading about disaster planning (since I live where there are hurricanes now) and read that these foods are the quickest to go in the store:

-Bottled water
-Pasta
-Rice
-Canned soup
-Canned vegetables
-Canned meat
-Canned fruit
-Popcorn
-Salt
-Condensed/powdered milk
-Cereal
-Beef jerky
-Grains
-Cooking oil
-Sport's drinks

Looking at what I would stock for future emergencies, I would not go for the sports drinks. I would stock many of the things above and:
Peanut butter
Jelly
Sugar
Pasta sauces
Honey
Packaged gravy

Any other ideas?

SavedByGrace3 · Aug 28, 2015

If you are not shooting for long term storage, and by that I mean up to 30 years or more, then all you have to do is check for the shelf life of the items you are stocking. Most of the things you listed would be ok for short term storage....

-Bottled water > good... keep the bottles out of the sun
-Pasta > keep dry it will store a long time
-Rice > if placed in a sealed bag, can be stored up to 30 years
-Canned soup > look at the expiration date
-Canned vegetables> look at the expiration date
-Canned meat> look at the expiration date
-Canned fruit > look at the expiration date
-Popcorn> look at the expiration date
-Salt if kept dry it will last a very long time
-Condensed/powdered milk > if kept dry it will keep a long time, get not fat
-Cereal > keep it dry and
-Beef jerky > normally it is packed with salt, sugar, and preservatives - keep it dry and cool
-Grains> if stored dry and cool this will last a long time. If moisture > 10% it could mold
-Cooking oil > has fats, watch expiration date
-Sport's drinks > expiration date... if it has salts it could actually hinder you water levels

Looking at what I would stock for future emergencies, I would not go for the sports drinks. I would stock many of the things above and:
Peanut butter> good but it can go rancid because of the oil content
Jelly > good also > keep in cool dry place
Sugar > if keep dry it will keep a very long time. Don't use an oxygen absorber. chemical reaction will cause it to go hard as concret
Pasta sauces > watch expiration date.
Honey > will keep almost for eternity! honey from the ancient Egyptian tombs was eatable.
Packaged gravy > Stuff goes on sale at bi-lo for 39 cents a pack. We buy 10 packs at a time

We store hundreds of pounds beans (pintos, big limas, lentils, great northern, navy, and kidney). But these are long term. We buy dent corn by the 50 pound bag. We buy frozen corn when we can get it for less that 1 dollar a pound. It dehydrates well and retains flavor and odor of corn.

FreeinChrist · Aug 28, 2015

I am aiming for a year's worth. That means using it and buying replacement as I go.

Nuts would be good to have but I find they need to be refrigerated or their shelf life is limited.

Honey is wonderful. The local stuff I get is great.

Goodbook · Aug 28, 2015

Marmite or vegemite keeps. I dont know about 30 years! That seems a bit extreme.

Goodbook · Aug 28, 2015

Or any of those yeast spreads because of the vitamin b12 content.
You can survive on it.

When the marmite factory was out of commission and there was a shortage i think ppl did panic. A little. We have marmite lovers and vegemite lovers, I am in the vegemite camp. Althouth ourmate is a good alternative. Marmite does have sugar in it.

I think most ppl can live without sugar but not salt.

Goodbook · Aug 28, 2015

Also I would add tea.
Not sports drinks they are rubbish and empty calories.

Goodbook · Aug 28, 2015

Soy sauce is also maybe an essential if you chinese.
You can also have different sauces that keep like black bean sauce. Oyster sauce.
Dried mushrooms too. They keep a long time.

Fireinfolding · Aug 28, 2015

Yeah, I love tea, I set aside both green and black tea in 2 separate 1/2 gallon mason jars.

I keep more mason jars of sauces in powder form. Like soy powder, ketchup spice powder, or worcestershire powder, various vinegar powders, cheese powders, peanutbutter powder, honey, maple and mollases powders etc.

Just found real lemon and lime powder but keep true lemon and lime packets. The powdered form is very handy, milk powders, egg powders, butter powders etc.

I still have something like 50 pounds of local honey, and a huge gallon can of soy, as well as gallons of various vinegars, the honey is likely hardened by now (although still fine to eat) and my soy can looks as though it is developing a little rust. So I think I will keep soy in the powdered form from here on out.

I try to find ways out of holding onto cans of soup (like creams of mushrooms, chicken, celery, corn, potato) and keep all dry forms of things to mix.

I just ordered this jam mix stuff over at emmergency essential this week, I would prefer it over canned jellys if I like it. You make as much jelly as you like on the spot, without worrying about cracking a whole jar (like with anything) knowing a lot of it will go to waste if you dont consume the jar (or can).

At least with the cream soups and the jelly mix, it saves space also.

Goodbook · Aug 29, 2015

Yes glass is best for storage. Plastic degrades over time.

Goodbook · Aug 29, 2015

Also bit wary of cans holding on to them forever as they can rust or acidity gets into your food.

whois · Aug 29, 2015

FreeinChrist said:
I am aiming for a year's worth.

1. if you are seriously planning for a year, then you need to give serious attention to some kind of water reclamation scheme.
2. also, some thought must go into some sort of sanitary/ waste disposal operation.
3. a means of power generation would also be helpful.

the first 2 would go together, plus some kind of solar still.

the 3rd one could be a windmill, or an alcohol burning internal combustion engine.
the engine would require extras such as a means of making the alcohol.
the windmill could be used stand alone, or with batteries.

FreeinChrist · Aug 29, 2015

Fireinfolding said:
Yeah, I love tea, I set aside both green and black tea in 2 separate 1/2 gallon mason jars.

I keep more mason jars of sauces in powder form. Like soy powder, ketchup spice powder, or worcestershire powder, various vinegar powders, cheese powders, peanutbutter powder, honey, maple and mollases powders etc.

Just found real lemon and lime powder but keep true lemon and lime packets. The powdered form is very handy, milk powders, egg powders, butter powders etc.

I still have something like 50 pounds of local honey, and a huge gallon can of soy, as well as gallons of various vinegars, the honey is likely hardened by now (although still fine to eat) and my soy can looks as though it is developing a little rust. So I think I will keep soy in the powdered form from here on out.

I try to find ways out of holding onto cans of soup (like creams of mushrooms, chicken, celery, corn, potato) and keep all dry forms of things to mix.

I just ordered this jam mix stuff over at emmergency essential this week, I would prefer it over canned jellys if I like it. You make as much jelly as you like on the spot, without worrying about cracking a whole jar (like with anything) knowing a lot of it will go to waste if you dont consume the jar (or can).

At least with the cream soups and the jelly mix, it saves space also.

I actually had true lemon and true lime degrade on me.

You are right about vinegar. How could I forget that? I use vinegar and water to clean, wash veges (with some Lugol's iodine solution) and make my own dressings. Several types of vinegar would be good to keep.
And tea - I drink that every day. That is a necessity.

I haven't see the powders you referred to. I will check that out

FreeinChrist · Aug 29, 2015

whois said:
1. if you are seriously planning for a year, then you need to give serious attention to some kind of water reclamation scheme.
2. also, some thought must go into some sort of sanitary/ waste disposal operation.
3. a means of power generation would also be helpful.

the first 2 would go together, plus some kind of solar still.

the 3rd one could be a windmill, or an alcohol burning internal combustion engine.
the engine would require extras such as a means of making the alcohol.
the windmill could be used stand alone, or with batteries.

Yes, we have solar power with propane back up, collect and treat our rainwater, and have a septic system.

Fireinfolding · Aug 29, 2015

FreeinChrist said:
I actually had true lemon and true lime degrade on me.

You are right about vinegar. How could I forget that? I use vinegar and water to clean, wash veges (with some Lugol's iodine solution) and make my own dressings. Several types of vinegar would be good to keep.
And tea - I drink that every day. That is a necessity.

I haven't see the powders you referred to. I will check that out

My first batch of true lemon and lime deteriorated but I thought it was because I did not vac seal it, there was a reason I didnt back then though, so mine deteriorated also which is why I repurchased it am adding the other in (and trying that) sealing them both.

Maybe I should ask you (just to be sure) did you vac seal yours?

I repurchased them and this time I did so, but will it make a difference in these two?

I am still experimenting with times, I always seal taste and reseal all the time.

Ever want me to test something for ya let me know ^_^

Im doing walnuts now, (a year... yeah, overdo, but Im surprised at what I cant tell a difference with).

paul1149 · Aug 29, 2015

How do you deal with rotation? It seems to me that if you keep enough quantity to live off of, at some point you have to start using it. And that means living primarily off of it?

FreeinChrist · Aug 29, 2015

Fireinfolding said:
My first batch of true lemon and lime deteriorated but I thought it was because I did not vac seal it, there was a reason I didnt back then though, so mine deteriorated also which is why I repurchased it am adding the other in (and trying that) sealing them both.

Maybe I should ask you (just to be sure) did you vac seal yours?

I repurchased them and this time I did so, but will it make a difference in these two?

I am still experimenting with times, I always seal taste and reseal all the time.

Ever want me to test something for ya let me know

Im doing walnuts now, (a year... yeah, overdo, but Im surprised at what I cant tell a difference with).

No, I didn't vacuum seal. We have a Food Saver now. We actually have limes growing all over the place here and I never have to buy them. Lemons do not grow here so I am interested in powdered lemon.

Fireinfolding · Aug 29, 2015

paul1149 said:
How do you deal with rotation? It seems to me that if you keep enough quantity to live off of, at some point you have to start using it. And that means living primarily off of it?

Storage rotation (to me) is such a pain in the rear because I dont prefer to eat already prepared foods (that is for "that time only") and so I know I wont even touch any of the already prepared ones UNTIL "THAT TIME"

That is why (for the most part) I had opted for the majority of our #10 cans to have a 25-30 year shelf life. Which again for the most part I have not rotated (and doubt I will even live long enough to begin doing that with these).

And that is just for certain items (which we could certainly get by on just by themselves)

I honestly do not believe I have that many years left to have to worry about doing that.

So all of those freeze dried meals are put way back not to be touched (or even brought out) for at least 14 more years. Unless they are needed before then. These sort of just sit in the back round as I try to get other things ready, like galvenized steal tubs, and wringer washers, ways to cook, storage containers, things like that.

If you were asking me, I am not that organized others might be better at telling you what they do, there are videos on that at youtube (shelving systems) and all but I dont have a basement, root cellar or any decent storage I use one of our spare bedrooms. What to do if one of our parents moves in is a whole other dilema (lol)

I have little tricks I do for what I cannot stand doing which are really hard to tell in any general sense of rotation (of all things) because it depends on the item, some are bought for food and cleaning, and have dual purposes, and what you might allow for one you might not allow for the other, stuff like that.

Some items are better off being bought only to be vacume packed (by you) to greatly extend their life, well past their best by date on the package, for instance, take nestle chocolate morsels, they last several more years vacume packed in mason jars. Pasta (to me) tastes funky to me stored too long, and takes up way too much space in #10 cans to store (that way) its far better to just make it using the handful of ingredients it takes to make them drying them as needed. I love home made sauce, but at that time, I have opted for a copycat spaghetti sauce recipe, and packs, some of which I have tested and they were fine by me (for such a time). Packets (vacume sealed) will take up no room at all in comparison to hoards of sauce jars. I take all the diced tomato cans just as they go out of date and dehydrate all of them, 25 cans dehydrated fit into 1 half gallon mason jar (fine for the next several years) I do weird rotations like that also.

The are others things you can get in #10 cans such as butter, eggs, and various things in more of the 3 - 10 year storage range which I will use and those I dont, might get donated out of that surplus. So you graze through yearly, and what might expire (in say, 6 months to a year out) donate to your local bank. I try to order in just before my husband takes a load down. So nothing really goes unused. You might not use them (rotating them for yourself optimally) but thats even a blessing for others in that sense your abundance will help feed others.

Rotation isnt really a strong point of mine, its like getting a tin roof, if you know how old you are and how long they will last you dont really think about it. Im going from these dreaded shingles to tin hopefully, so I dont have to think about that so much either.

But that is something I am actually bad at, but I also have fun with it by pressing the limits and seeing how much longer something can go, thats a little fun to experiment with. I just had a pound of ground fennel seed come in yesterday (and I usually buy whole seed as it stays fresher longer) but I hate grinding so I ordered some powder. The smell of mine (which I had since 2008) had disapeared, the fresher batch (ofcourse) fumigated the room when I opened the bag lol

But when I tasted the old and then tasted the new I seriously couldnt taste the difference.

I am so bad at this sort of thing.

My sister (who used to be a a wine rep who held wine tastings for expensive wines for restaurants (like the hundreds of dollar kinds) would bring what was left back to our house (she drinks wine). And she would be like sis, you just gotta taste this one, and Im not a wine drinker (although I am cool for an occasional small glass). But I would taste the "good stuff" (as she called it) and I just hated it. I am the type who loves the cheap stuff, like that Jewish sweet wine for $5 a bottle (cause it tastes like koolaid- ya, haha). And my sister would say, "you have such an unrefined palate" lol. I gotta thank God for that because that just means my palate naturally prefers the cheaper unsophisticated stuff (which works to my benefit actually). So I dont mind so much my spices not being optimum, and I am fine with how a dish turns out with older spices (which is like some big no no on recipe sites). But I drink unfiltered water right from the earth and things dont bother me so much.

I collect spices though, and just so that I have "the ability" to make any recipe set before me (from scratch) that I like. Whereas before (when I didnt cook) I was always deterred from doing so because I would go to any recipe and be missing at least one thing (so I couldnt). It just became a pain to do so. Now I dont run into that so much. Whatever I might not have (meaning cant find) I know how to sub or to make it myself, and I love being able to do that, but I do need a better system myself, because I cant find anything half the time.

I cant seem to get organized for some reason.

I need to find a more perfect solution for my own set up.

Fireinfolding · Aug 29, 2015

FreeinChrist said:
No, I didn't vacuum seal. We have a Food Saver now. We actually have limes growing all over the place here and I never have to buy them. Lemons do not grow here so I am interested in powdered lemon.

Your lucky, I know my husband loves lemonade ^_^

he wishes I could grow one, I dont think they grow in SC that well, but I dont have a green thumb (all my fruit trees didnt make it) see?

So I buy those fruits freeze dried lol

I did take a bunch of lemons, sliced them up along with limes and oranges and dehydrated them (hoping) when needed that they might taste like what they are at the time I need them for a drink or a recipe

As it is now, Im stuck looking for the powders

My dad has lemon trees in Florida I believe, but they wont help me none being down there lol

whois · Aug 29, 2015

FreeinChrist said:
Yes, we have solar power with propane back up,

it seems you've looked at all the options.
personally i would also include some windmills, which would reduce reliance on the propane backup.
the only reason i say this is because propane would be impossible to replace without being purchased.
at least with an alcohol powered source you could conceivably grow the stuff needed to produce the alcohol.

i assume you have given some thought to human activities, such as games, music, and books.

paul1149 · Aug 29, 2015

Wow, thanks for such a detailed reply. This confirms to me that rotation really is a challenge. As I see it, if you store enough food to get you through an emergency, at some point that's a sizable amount of food that needs to be consumed before it goes bad. The longer the emergency you are putting by for, the closer you are getting to a delayed but constant rotation in which you are eating primarily out of your stores. That presents problems with cost of the food, the amount of labor spent on food preparation, and with the appeal of the food, because lacking an actual emergency most of the food is going to be consumed during normal times, and eating “k-rations” on an extended basis may not be appreciated. And there's also the space consideration you mentioned.

My extent of storing up has included bulk honey, beans and flour. Currently all I have is flour, as I make my own bread (which is great because it saves a LOT of money (I have a good local source of flour) and fresh whole wheat bread is great to have around). At that level, rotation wasn’t an issue, because each foodstuff was only supplementing my food requirements. But if one is to prepare for a total meltdown, the issue needs to be approached at a whole other level. And it seems to me the logistics get daunting at that level.

I still have fond memories of going to my uncle Bud and aunt Stella's house and having a small glass of “Manischewitz” sweet concord grape wine. Those were back in the days when America was free, and one could give his kids a touch of wine on a holiday without being reported for child abuse. I have a friend who enjoys the finer things in life, like real balsamic vinegar, which is astronomical in cost. Most probably she's headed for bankruptcy court soon.

Back to the subject, I think I'm going to go for storage that I can handle, on the level of incorporating it into my normal life – beans, flour, drinking water and whatever else I can think of and have room for.

I'm told that toilet paper is solid gold when the lights really go out. This testimony came from the Balkans when extended civil war hit there several years ago. Also big were unregistered guns, and ammo.

I'm amazed that food reserves are able to go 14-20 years in storage. I actually don't see much advantage to that in the real world though.

Food storage

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