[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Dead children go straight to heaven

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
I have shown support for my positions.

You have, in line with those that believe in Bigfoot and alien abductions.

I don't believe I can remember when you ever have.

I don't believe you can remember it either.

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
When it comes down to it, I know who gets the last laugh.

Oncedeceived said:
Oh it is not I who will laugh, Pheno. God will have the last laugh.

Scare tactic fail.

ScottA · Aug 29, 2015

Davian said:
Which "God"? The "God" that allegedly walked and talked in a garden that has no evidence of having existed, poofed people and animals into existence, and later, in a manner contrary to the modern understanding of genetics, populated the planet with a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived a global flood in an unbuildable boat, a flood that killed the dinosaurs in a manner that only *appears* to be 65 million years ago, because the Earth is really only somehow 6000 years old, yet remains, by every object measure to date indistinguishable from nothing?

I am comfortable in saying that that particular deity is only a character in a book. Not a "fact", as you would say.

Your comment is out of line too.

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
...
You don't understand Christians and hold a skewed view of Christianity as a whole.

Tell me, how does one gather an "accurate" view of Christianity?

The Bible is subject to interpretation, from Christian atheism to pantheism/panentheism. You have Christians that accept modern cosmology and evolutionary theory to the YEC crowd that needs virtually all mainstream science to be wrong for their beliefs to be right.

"Christian atheism is a theological position in which the belief in the God of Christianity is rejected or absent but the moral teachings of Jesus are followed."

Christian atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The apostle Paul quotes a pantheist poem about Zeus in Acts 17:28, turning it into a panentheist statement about their "unknown God" when he quotes, "'In him we live and move and have our being' as some of your poets have said."

Panentheism is also a feature of some later Christian thought, particularly in mystical Orthodox Christianity, Catholic philosophy, and process theology. In order to avoid confusion with pantheism some panentheists now use the doublet "unitheism.""

Panentheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
Your comment is out of line too.

Your opinion is noted.

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
The flaw is in the misunderstanding of God's two-part plan of salvation, as it applies to the nature of all who are born into the physical world. Children are a gift from God. Sadly, some are refused, and yes, shame on those who refuse a gift from God. But, the truth of the word of God, is that all who are born into the world are born into sin and death, born dead, as it were. And, God is not the god of the dead, but of the living. In order to be among the [actual] living, one must also be born [again] of the spirit of God: which also is a gift. Sadly, some refuse this most precious gift...as well.

"Refuse" implies intent. Belief is not a conscious choice.

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
Hahaha...that is a good point. But not because it is correct, but because it shows this universe as NOT being a dimension. And if not a dimension...then what? You may have just come to the one card that brings the house down.

In the common vernacular, "dimension" is a measure of something, such as length, breadth, duration. What do you mean by that word?

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

Chriliman said:
So apparently my "delusion" does matter to you?

Only if you misrepresent what I said. Is that something that is beyond your control to stop?

Even though you just claimed it does not matter to you in the beginning of your post. What if Christian beliefs could solve all the problems in government and school systems?

Which Christian beliefs? The ones compatible with modern science, and the standard models of physics and cosmology? Or the ones that require virtually all of that to be wrong? I am still not sure what you believe. For example, how much of modern science has to be wrong for your beliefs to be right?

What if the only reason their are problems is because people don't hold christian values, in other words people don't live like Christ lived.

Live as an apocalyptic preacher? Do you hate your mother and father? Have you given away or sold all of your possessions and given all of your money to the poor?

Notice I'm saying "what if", meaning I just want you to really think it through.

You first.

ScottA · Aug 29, 2015

Davian said:
"Refuse" implies intent. Belief is not a conscious choice.

You are correct to say that refusal does not apply to belief. In my comment, it was a shortcut to the fact that refusing to acknowledge something as immense as the history of the world as told by eye witnesses from every generation of record...is a type of selective blindness bordering on refusal.

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
You are correct to say that refusal does not apply to belief. In my comment, it was a shortcut to the fact that refusing to acknowledge something as immense as the history of the world as told by eye witnesses from every generation of record

Anonymous second- and third-hand stories of stories told by eyewitnesses are of little use historically.

...is a type of selective blindness bordering on refusal.

According to a citation on wiki, an estimated 5 to 6 percent of the general population have been abducted by extraterrestrial aliens visiting Earth.

What precautions have you taken to prevent this from happening to you and your family? Nothing? Why would you refuse to take action against this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

ScottA · Aug 29, 2015

Davian said:
In the common vernacular, "dimension" is a measure of something, such as length, breadth, duration. What do you mean by that word?

Good of you to ask the abstract questions.

If I read from a book, it is measurable by word count, but also by content. But if you deny the content is true, then the content to you, is immeasurable. And if the book can be proven non-existent by scientific means, in that matter is actually energy, then it too is also immeasurable.

So then, neither of us can say anything that can be substantiated...except within our own acceptable terms of context: in your case, common vernacular.

But then again, no man, is an island...in which case, you loose by default.

Davian · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
Good of you to ask the abstract questions.

If I read from a book, it is measurable by word count, but also by content. But if you deny the content is true, then the content to you, is immeasurable. And if the book can be proven non-existent by scientific means, in that matter is actually energy, then it too is also immeasurable.

So then, neither of us can say anything that can be substantiated...except within our own acceptable terms of context: in your case, common vernacular.

But then again, no man, is an island...in which case, you loose by default.

Not at all. You misrepresent what I have said. I simply asked for you to define a word as you had used it. Are you unable to do so?

bhsmte · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
On these forums, the reality of God is considered a fact, not to be questioned, discounted, or attacked. Your comment is out of line.

Not on this part of the forum, where non believers are allowed to post.

If they are non believers, it is quite clear, they don't consider the reality of God to be a fact.

You may feel more safe, in the Christian only sections of the forum.

ScottA · Aug 29, 2015

Davian said:
Anonymous second- and third-hand stories of stories told by eyewitnesses are of little use historically.

That would of course violate your rule of common vernacular...and put everything you yourself have ever read or studied, in the same category.

Davian said:
According to a citation on wiki, an estimated 5 to 6 percent of the general population have been abducted by extraterrestrial aliens visiting Earth.

What precautions have you taken to prevent this from happening to you and your family? Nothing? Why would you refuse to take action against this?

What precaution could one possibly take against something out of ones control? What precautions are you taking, for instance, about the potential of collisions of meteors colliding with the earth?

ScottA · Aug 29, 2015

Davian said:
Not at all. You misrepresent what I have said. I simply asked for you to define a word as you had used it. Are you unable to do so?

Just so we understand the terms, are NOT "common vernacular." It is a foolish notion to give final say and authority to random human activity. So, I do not, and will not. It is also foolish to think that we can attain greater knowledge, within the lesser context of what is considered "common."

Davian said:
In the common vernacular, "dimension" is a measure of something, such as length, breadth, duration. What do you mean by that word?

The answer would be comparable to the difference between quantity and quality. I will let you answer the question: What is the measure of the memory of your whole life...not the years, but the memories?

SteveB28 · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
"It is finished." John 19:30 Thus, the Time argument...is void.
"It is finished." ...Is this registering with you ('cause it is not with most Christians, and requires some knowledge of science)?

Oh yes, thank you for reminding me of the Jesus story. Since he was supposed to be '1/3 god' or 'god in one of 3 forms', or whatever nonsense one prefers, he of course would have very much been "inside time". After all, his entire story is one of existence in this world and his series of purported actions is chronicled in the Bible.This alone demolishes this puerile claim that god exists "outside time".

SteveB28 · Aug 29, 2015

bhsmte said:
It is basically special pleading; God can do whatever he wants. You know, stuff like; God is the first cause and everything needs a first cause, except God.

And magic. Let us not forget that we can always call upon a 'magical rescue' for any element of our argument that simply makes no sense.

SteveB28 · Aug 29, 2015

ScottA said:
On these forums, the reality of God is considered a fact, not to be questioned, discounted, or attacked. Your comment is out of line.

Are you able to see the consequences of such a 'rule', were it to be applicable community-wide rather than just within the 'halls' of this forum? Can this example demonstrate to you why it is vital that there be a clear separation of religious influence from the affairs of a state? What can you imagine would be the fate of 'out of line' people if that were the case? Are you able to see the value of being able to critically analyse any philosophy, even your own?

ScottA · Aug 29, 2015

SteveB28 said:
Oh yes, thank you for reminding me of the Jesus story. Since he was supposed to be '1/3 god' or 'god in one of 3 forms', or whatever nonsense one prefers, he of course would have very much been "inside time". After all, his entire story is one of existence in this world and his series of purported actions is chronicled in the Bible.This alone demolishes this puerile claim that god exists "outside time".

Oh darn...you totally missed it! Stuck in the time context, I see.

Strathos · Aug 29, 2015

SteveB28 said:
Oh yes, thank you for reminding me of the Jesus story. Since he was supposed to be '1/3 god' or 'god in one of 3 forms', or whatever nonsense one prefers, he of course would have very much been "inside time". After all, his entire story is one of existence in this world and his series of purported actions is chronicled in the Bible.This alone demolishes this puerile claim that god exists "outside time".

I exist outside of my swimming pool. Does that mean I can't dip my hand into it once and a while?

[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Dead children go straight to heaven

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