Recognizing the Holy Spirit

Cnk12 said:

Hi, After several years "trying" to be a Christian, I realized I held serious doubts and had never genuinely given myself to Christ. With reflection and research I believe I’m a Theist and understand one of the main reasons I’ve avoided a sincere commitment to Christ is the array of upheavals that would result in my life. The word is selfishness and I recognize that. My question concerns one of the major doubts I continue to entertain. If members of this forum don’t mind sharing their experience(s) with the Holy Spirit, and how it relates to the question, I would be very interested and appreciative.

Allow me to start by putting forth what you will hopefully agree is a reasonable premise. The spiritual nature of humans compels us to search for answers to the ultimate questions of life, usually culminating in espousal of a particular religion, philosophy, etc. (sometimes more than one) over a lifetime. In some of those cases, people undoubtedly convert from Christianity to another religion/philosophy. Statistically, across the world and history, one would think there are countless conversions away from Christianity. And while no one knows for sure, I’m inclined to believe the majority of those are sincere in their search for the “truth.”

If the Holy Spirit is genuine in a way that the others are not, isn’t it fair to expect that fact be crystal clear to the people that I referred to, thereby preventing most from converting? Thank you.

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The largest problem with this premise is that you believe in free will, i.e. the ability to do good, to actively seek God and the Truth, &c.

However, this is most certainly not the case. "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." [Romans 3:10-12]

Cnk12 said:

Hi, After several years "trying" to be a Christian, I realized I held serious doubts and had never genuinely given myself to Christ. With reflection and research I believe I’m a Theist and understand one of the main reasons I’ve avoided a sincere commitment to Christ is the array of upheavals that would result in my life. The word is selfishness and I recognize that. My question concerns one of the major doubts I continue to entertain. If members of this forum don’t mind sharing their experience(s) with the Holy Spirit, and how it relates to the question, I would be very interested and appreciative.

Allow me to start by putting forth what you will hopefully agree is a reasonable premise. The spiritual nature of humans compels us to search for answers to the ultimate questions of life, usually culminating in espousal of a particular religion, philosophy, etc. (sometimes more than one) over a lifetime. In some of those cases, people undoubtedly convert from Christianity to another religion/philosophy. Statistically, across the world and history, one would think there are countless conversions away from Christianity. And while no one knows for sure, I’m inclined to believe the majority of those are sincere in their search for the “truth.”

If the Holy Spirit is genuine in a way that the others are not, isn’t it fair to expect that fact be crystal clear to the people that I referred to, thereby preventing most from converting? Thank you.

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This question is a difficult one to answer because it will cause infighting among those who claim to believe.

Thus, all I can offer is what scripture says and how my own life has reflected that. Anything else is just arguing.

First, scripture tells us that the HS is our guarantee of salvation. Without this guarantee, it is just the hopea method as my husband likes to quote a teacher he had, "I hopea make it". So, we look to scripture to see what the HS should look like in one's life. We find this in Gal. 5, the fruit of the Spirit. Anyone who has believed unto salvation should be exhibiting the fruit here. Now just a brief mention, these are distinguishable from the world and we know that by I Cor. 13 understanding of Love, the Joy that passes all understanding, and Peace that the world cannot understand, etc. These are NOT things that the world can imitate and yet, some find it hard to accept this, so scripture gives us another piece to the puzzle of the HS. Matt. 10, Mark 13, John 15 all tell us that the world will hate the light that is within us and therefore will hate us because of the HS being evidenced to a sinful world. In fact, other scriptures tell us that we will be persecuted for our faith, not you might be, but you will be.

I remember when I first read about these things and praying that God would be so alive in me that the world would hate me because they can see the Christ in me. I remember praying that God would be so alive in me that it would be impossible to know where He began and I ended. Since that time, there have been multiple times the HS worked in me to do what I could not do on my own. Not only that, but He has protected me through miraculous means, given peace when there should not have been peace, gave me joy when the situation didn't seem to fit joy. I have been told that "no one Loves like 'Razz'", that Love was evident in such a way that someone didn't even think that kind of Love was possible in this world. Etc. etc. etc. The only way to know for sure that God is the truth, is to believe and know within your being that He is there. But despite that, He is evidenced in every true believers life, and that is where things get sticky because many don't see that evidence (whether there or not, for whatever reason) thus feel compelled to argue for their own soundness of mind. The best any of us can do is seek the HS and His working and allow God to do the rest.

Cnk12 said:

If the Holy Spirit is genuine in a way that the others are not, isn’t it fair to expect that fact be crystal clear to the people that I referred to, thereby preventing most from converting?

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It is a good question, and I'm sure there are various reasons why the conversions away happen.

I can relate a micro example that might shed light. When I had been a Christian for a couple of years the leadership of my church stumbled badly and the church fell apart. Many of us felt betrayed and deeply hurt. I began to question everything, and eventually began being influenced by some new age teachings that had an appealing Christian veneer. Eventually I saw through it, and at the same time the Lord was showing me clearly that He was not going to let go of me.

I found my way back, by His mercy and grace, but I have thought about it many times. I saw that the Lord allowed me to wander, and indeed, He had allowed the church to fail in the first place. I concluded that sin is very real in this world, and that we have a very capable adversary who hates our souls and is out to destroy us, precisely because we are beloved of God.

I also began to learn some of the meaning of the verse, "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance". God set everything in motion and delegated authority, and when it went astray He did not pull the plug. Adam was still allowed to live and populate the earth. And even satan was allowed to continue to operate within his domain. God chose to respect the structure He had created rather than obliterate it. Indeed, if He has merely started over, the root issues of rebellion and whether God rules in love would not have been solved. At the proper time Jesus at the cross upended satan's legal claims, so he has no authority over us any longer. And one day the final reckoning will occur, and everything will be perfected.

I saw how subtly God works in our lives and down through history, so as not to overrule our free will and therefore our responsibility. (Even Holy Spirit himself bears witness in scripture that many will fall away -1Ti 4.1-2, et al). And when I saw that, I feared. I don't fear God being cruel or unjust, I fear myself falling away. I believe that if I did He would catch me before I went too far, but a) I dare not take that for granted, and b) even if that is the case the cost would be extremely high (and indeed, not only do I not want to hurt myself, more so I do not want to disappoint Him).

And so what I'm saying is that God does allow us free choices, even when we decide badly. And while we get freedom of choice, we do not get to choose the consequences of our choices. Knowing that, and how easy it is to be deceived, it is crucial that we make sure that our hearts are open to truth, and open to Holy Spirit, who always will be in agreement with the Word.

But as for selfishness, it is important to understand that if Jesus loved us enough to go to the cross for us, to reconcile us back to Father, then clearly He has the best of intentions for us. He placed our needs and desires within us, but they have been corrupted by the Fall. It only makes sense that we should trust Him for the fulfillment of our deepest desires. The testimony of the Word, and my own experience, is that desires unsubmitted become idols, and idols work our destruction. But if we will submit to God, He will give us as He sees fit, and it will draw us closer to Him and be good for us.

Cnk12 said:

Hi, After several years "trying" to be a Christian, I realized I held serious doubts and had never genuinely given myself to Christ. With reflection and research I believe I’m a Theist and understand one of the main reasons I’ve avoided a sincere commitment to Christ is the array of upheavals that would result in my life. The word is selfishness and I recognize that. My question concerns one of the major doubts I continue to entertain. If members of this forum don’t mind sharing their experience(s) with the Holy Spirit, and how it relates to the question, I would be very interested and appreciative.

Allow me to start by putting forth what you will hopefully agree is a reasonable premise. The spiritual nature of humans compels us to search for answers to the ultimate questions of life, usually culminating in espousal of a particular religion, philosophy, etc. (sometimes more than one) over a lifetime. In some of those cases, people undoubtedly convert from Christianity to another religion/philosophy. Statistically, across the world and history, one would think there are countless conversions away from Christianity. And while no one knows for sure, I’m inclined to believe the majority of those are sincere in their search for the “truth.”

If the Holy Spirit is genuine in a way that the others are not, isn’t it fair to expect that fact be crystal clear to the people that I referred to, thereby preventing most from converting? Thank you.

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Hello Cnk12. Yes this is a good question, so valuable to grasp and to experience and most precious to cling to. Jesus said The Father would send The Holy Spirit in His name, to teach us everything and to remind us of what He said. This is how it can be true that Christians know the scriptures and can use them within valid context as in The Word of God expressed in Ephesians 6:17. Conversely, you have observed people seeking life in the bible such as 2 Timothy 4:3 describes. I think John 5:39-40 is relevant too.

You have come along here and been totally honest about what you have found in your relationship with Him. It is normal too, and very common for Christians to not give themselves entirely over to Him (John 10:1), or to later on want to take their life back (Luke 8:13). That is not what Christians are called to do though. Instead in several verses we are told that we are to do what God wants us to do. Luke 17:33, 1 Corinthians 6:20, 1 Corinthians 7:23, Romans 12:1.

So what we find with people who do really give their life to God, is that The Holy Spirit accepts them, and becomes to them, a comforter and counsellor, and they have the peace of knowing that He does not hold against them their sins. They have this peace and assurance from having a clear conscience, a real knowledge that yes, they have done what He wants, and He is pleased with them. These people know from this experience the reality of God, they actually know The Holy Spirit, and when someone has that experience, they can then understand the truths of the teachings you have been given by other posters above.

As it was suggested in Luke 8:13, even when this has happened, there is natural human tendency to be tempted by our own desires (James 1:15), which can become activated as sin, and then that sin leads us to a state of spiritual discontent - that we no longer have the peace and countenance, knowing we are living the way God wants us to live, and rather than being confident we are forgiven, we rather fear an impending judgement at the last day. We are being disobedient to Him, and we are refusing to repent because we love our sinful ways. This is nothing new though, even Cain experienced this in Genesis 4:7, when he made his offering to God half-heartedly.

So what happens when someone wants so much to feel accepted by Him, and yet to live their own way against Him, they will begin looking for that satisfaction. Yes, people can find sufficient satisfaction, but it is not a real approval by God. It is not the truth. Romans 1:25 & 1 John 1:6.

"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. "
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

.. So, your decision is whether to live as Esau did, to trade his inheritance to satisfy his hunger, or to become forever, a living sacrifice that pleases Him. James 1:6, and to persevere, work as hard as you can to endure to the end, to remain in Him until the time He has appointed for you to see Him face to face: Luke 13:24.

I remember many years ago when I was trying to come to God, that I prayed to Him for help, and stated I understood the Lord Jesus to have died for my sins and sinful nature, so I do receive Him; then stated that if that is not good enough I don't know what more I can do. I just got up from my knees and went to bed.

The next morning first thing when I got up I got the response to my inquiry: first an attack by Satan that challenged me as probably getting fanatical, and when I cried to God the thought came clearly from Him ---you not only received the teaching of the Bible, but received the Teacher, and that settles it. I could then go forth knowing that all is well, and the Holy Spirit gave me that peace as He indwelt and sealed me as the Word says. After 60+ years I am still at peace and trying to live for God, and praising Him all day.

Here is what I found after talking with several Muslim friends on the forum, Woodrow, Niblo etc. The spirit of God can lead you or blind you, just as God can make the Pharoh's heart hard.

The big example here is, I present some Quran verses, for examle, Surah 5:47, which states that Christians should be judged by Gospel and Jews by Torah, or Surah 10:94, which states when in doubt about Islam, Muhammad or Muslims should consult Christians/Jews. And I am not trying to prove other stuff, I am simply trying to prove that the Bible is not corrupted.

But, after length discussions, both Woodrow and Niblo still believe the Gospel is corrupted or lost, even with clear (to me) contradictions to Quran, they claim that. And after a while I concluded that by us alone we can't do a thing, it is by the spirit of God people can (or can't ) change their mind.

It's a relationship with the Holy Spirit . It's personal. He is a person you meet .

SinnerInTheHands said:

The largest problem with this premise is that you believe in free will, i.e. the ability to do good, to actively seek God and the Truth, &c.

However, this is most certainly not the case. "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." [Romans 3:10-12]

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I'm not understanding how you understand Romans 3:10-12 is saying that we do not have the ability to do good. This verse is talking about righteousness and holiness. Not one human being is holy, except for Christ.

Be blessed.

gloryriver said:

It's a relationship with the Holy Spirit . It's personal. He is a person you meet .

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We need to get the relationship clear. We only have a relationship with the Creator-God through His beloved Son ---the Lord Jesus (John 14:6 & 1 Jn. 5:10-12), and that is by the power of the Holy Spirit. There is no calling of God to try and communicate with the Holy Spirit (note John 14:23 & John 16:7-14). A "born again" believer communicates only with the Father and the Son. The Spirit of God will then do His silent work in and through the saints as directed by Jehovah.

I converted away from Christianity in high school to atheism for about a year, but I decided during this time to live a relatively Christian life during this time, even praying the Lord's prayer during this time, but my faith was dead. I was only deconverting because of one question I had about suffering, which wasn't that solid, but I did it anyways. God allowed me to fall away from the faith. My memory of this time is fuzzy for some reason, perhaps because it was about 10 years ago and I never wrote it down, but aside from praying the Lord's prayer, i didn't pray anything else. Then one night a year later, I was deciding to go back to Christianity because I was missing the joy I used to have, which is sort of hard to explain, because I've always been depressed, probably always will be, but it was just like everything turned to ashes in my mouth. If I remember correctly, I started seeing red eyes as I was trying to go to sleep, not realizing that I was probably developing schizophrenia even then, and then I prayed to be delivered from demons. Then I went to sleep, and during sleep paralysis, God talked to me, and rather it was more like a vision, because it was really hard to hear anything, but the vision was clear of God's throne room and the 24 elders. I asked a few questions about suffering, and the answer was that metal is refined in fire. I mostly just got told Bible verses, but I never saw the Holy Spirit or communicated with it, and then told that I needed to ask for my mom's forgiveness and that told that I wasn't perfect either. I kept wanting to hear God judge the people at school as bad, but He wouldn't say anything about them. I had fuzzy memories of the event while I was having psychotic episodes and said different things years later, but I think this was the gist of it.

orangeness365 said:

I converted away from Christianity in high school to atheism for about a year, but I decided during this time to live a relatively Christian life during this time, even praying the Lord's prayer during this time, but my faith was dead. I was only deconverting because of one question I had about suffering, which wasn't that solid, but I did it anyways. God allowed me to fall away from the faith. My memory of this time is fuzzy for some reason, perhaps because it was about 10 years ago and I never wrote it down, but aside from praying the Lord's prayer, i didn't pray anything else. Then one night a year later, I was deciding to go back to Christianity because I was missing the joy I used to have, which is sort of hard to explain, because I've always been depressed, probably always will be, but it was just like everything turned to ashes in my mouth. If I remember correctly, I started seeing red eyes as I was trying to go to sleep, not realizing that I was probably developing schizophrenia even then, and then I prayed to be delivered from demons. Then I went to sleep, and during sleep paralysis, God talked to me, and rather it was more like a vision, because it was really hard to hear anything, but the vision was clear of God's throne room and the 24 elders. I asked a few questions about suffering, and the answer was that metal is refined in fire. I mostly just got told Bible verses, but I never saw the Holy Spirit or communicated with it, and then told that I needed to ask for my mom's forgiveness and that told that I wasn't perfect either. I kept wanting to hear God judge the people at school as bad, but He wouldn't say anything about them. I had fuzzy memories of the event while I was having psychotic episodes and said different things years later, but I think this was the gist of it.

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Are you a Christian now or still?

ToBeLoved said:

Are you a Christian now or still?

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yeah I'm a Christian now

Cnk12 said:

Hi, After several years "trying" to be a Christian, I realized I held serious doubts and had never genuinely given myself to Christ

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I would put the inverted commas around the word Christian because over the centuries, it has come to mean something different to what the New Testament actually teaches, and indeed that is the root of many problems people have concerning "Christianity", "Christians and "the Church".

You need to receive what all the disciples received at Pentecost to be a Christian - Acts 2:4, 39; Romans 8:8-9.

Many "give themselves" to another Christ, a words-only version that demands they change themselves.

Cnk12 said:

With reflection and research I believe I’m a Theist and understand one of the main reasons I’ve avoided a sincere commitment to Christ is the array of upheavals that would result in my life. The word is selfishness and I recognize that.

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You may have mis-conceptions about how your life will change. You don't have to give up anything, you have to receive from Him, that will give you a love, joy & peace you cannot understand and like many others you will find that you want to give / use / share that. People are selfish becayuse they havn't got that.
People also find that the need for alcohol, nicotine and other addictions is reduced or just disappears, even replaced by revulsion.

Cnk12 said:

My question concerns one of the major doubts I continue to entertain. If members of this forum don’t mind sharing their experience(s) with the Holy Spirit, and how it relates to the question, I would be very interested and appreciative.

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The best thing is to meet with people are see for yourself. Words on a screen will be limited by your preconception. True salvation gives a change in people's nature, I saw the nature of God in my peers. Reading books about it didn't convince me that I needed to receive something I didn't already have.

In all 'spiritual' things, they must be experienced.

Atheists drive me crazy in because they attack the Word of God without knowing really what the Word of God says, but also because spiritual things are 'in their eyes' an easy target because they seem so out of the ordinary. The things of God are experienced when we walk with God. No one can tell you adequately what it is like to walk with God. That is something you need to see for yourself. It is amazing.

"Recognizing the Holy Spirit" > How do we recognize the Holy Spirit? How can we tell the difference between the Holy Spirit and whoever and whatever is not the Holy Spirit?

First, I simply trust God to make me able and successful to know "what" is the Holy Spirit and what is not.

One thing > most of all we need to evaluate what is in us, not only look at what other people are doing and judging outward public stuff. But in us we need to know the Holy Spirit . . . how He has us be in our hearts and emotions and reacting and thinking, and knowing His personal guiding in us. God is the One who has us succeed in this. We constantly need to be submissive and attentive to God, so we are always with Him in His Holy Spirit. While we are, there are things the Bible clearly says will be happening. For one example, we will be ruled by God's own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Being ruled in God's peace does not mean we feel good while we get ourselves to do things and make choices on our own; but in being ruled by God in our "hearts", we always are seeking and desiring and doing what He has us doing.

"Therefore", if you are living a do-it-yourself life, depending on yourself, this is not living in the Holy Spirit, not Christianity.

Also, for our inner life in the Holy Spirit, we have >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

So, God makes us gentle and quiet, in His love, and the beauty of love's "gentle and quiet spirit" is "incorruptible". So, in God's gentleness and quietness in the Holy Spirit we are in almighty protection against being corrupted by dominating and nasty and demanding lusts and nasty and uncaring angry reacting, and arguing and boredom and loneliness and unforgiveness and other things which degrade people from being in God's love.

So, from this information, you should be able to recognize what is not the Holy Spirit, and not trust any thinking or reacting or feelings or desires or impulses or decisions witch are not in the ruling of our Father's peace in our hearts.

com7fy8 said:

"Recognizing the Holy Spirit" > How do we recognize the Holy Spirit? How can we tell the difference between the Holy Spirit and whoever and whatever is not the Holy Spirit?

First, I simply trust God to make me able and successful to know "what" is the Holy Spirit and what is not.

One thing > most of all we need to evaluate what is in us, not only look at what other people are doing and judging outward public stuff. But in us we need to know the Holy Spirit . . . how He has us be in our hearts and emotions and reacting and thinking, and knowing His personal guiding in us. God is the One who has us succeed in this. We constantly need to be submissive and attentive to God, so we are always with Him in His Holy Spirit. While we are, there are things the Bible clearly says will be happening. For one example, we will be ruled by God's own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Being ruled in God's peace does not mean we feel good while we get ourselves to do things and make choices on our own; but in being ruled by God in our "hearts", we always are seeking and desiring and doing what He has us doing.

"Therefore", if you are living a do-it-yourself life, depending on yourself, this is not living in the Holy Spirit, not Christianity.

Also, for our inner life in the Holy Spirit, we have >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

So, God makes us gentle and quiet, in His love, and the beauty of love's "gentle and quiet spirit" is "incorruptible". So, in God's gentleness and quietness in the Holy Spirit we are in almighty protection against being corrupted by dominating and nasty and demanding lusts and nasty and uncaring angry reacting, and arguing and boredom and loneliness and unforgiveness and other things which degrade people from being in God's love.

So, from this information, you should be able to recognize what is not the Holy Spirit, and not trust any thinking or reacting or feelings or desires or impulses or decisions witch are not in the ruling of our Father's peace in our hearts.

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This is very good. I would only add the following to knowing the Spirit. When and if we are in doubt, we can test the spirits.

1 John 4:1-2
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God"

The Holy Spirit will always agree with and point us to Jesus Christ.

ToBeLoved said:

1 John 4:1-2
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God"

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Amen Jesus Christ who is God's Son has come to this earth in the flesh. Thank You, O God our Father!!!

And Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29) So, Jesus is gentle and humble, and in the above post I showed that the Holy Spirit will make us gentle and humble. And being gentle and lowly in heart is included in acknowledging who Jesus is and how He is. The Holy Spirit has us discovering who Jesus really is, by making us loving like He is >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

So, we know the Holy Spirit, by how He corrects us and strengthens us to love any and all people, gently and humbly.