Question about another hadith

Salaam alaikum to my Muslim friends and fellow posters. I am wondering what are your thoughts on the hadith below.


It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) one day said:

Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
http://sunnah.com/muslim/1/306

The sun is described as "gliding" to a place of rest under God's throne, where it prostrates and remains in a certain place until it is told to rise and go to it's "rising place", from where it emerges and glides until it reaches its place of rest under God's throne, then it is told to rise, goes to its rising place, and continues doing this until on day God will tell it to emerge from its place of setting.

This teaching, if I understand correctly, was given to Abu Darr when he and Muhammad were at a mosque and they observed the sun setting, and Muhammad asked him if he knows where the sun "goes".

Narrated Abu Dharr:

I entered the mosque while Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was sitting there. When the sun had set, the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where this (sun) goes?" I said, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and asks permission to prostrate, and it is allowed, and (one day) it, as if being ordered to return whence it came, then it will rise from the west." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) recited, "That: "And the sun runs on its fixed course (for a term decreed)," (36.38) as it is recited by `Abdullah.

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/97/52


Some questions I have.

- Why did Muhammad state that the sun has "a rising place", when there is no such thing? We know that it is the earth that goes around the sun, and what we refer to as "sunrise" and "sunset" have nothing to do with the movement of the sun and there is no "place" that the sun goes to in order to rise or set.

- If one of the signs of the end of the world is dependent on the sun doing something that it is incapable of (emerging from the "place of its setting"- a location that does not exist, given that the sun does not really "rise" or "set" from any place), what does this say about this particular prophecy?

I hope I am not being offensive or rude, but if anyone would like to discuss or debate or challenge me on what I have written and provide your input, I would be very interested. Take care and God bless.

Hi Arthra, nice to hear from you.

Arthra said:

Why did Muhammad state that the sun has "a rising place", when there is no such thing?

Actually during the year the sun has various points along the horizon where the sun rises and sets.. so the phrase is probably more literary and poetic.

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There are various points along the horizon where the sun seems to rise and set... but does it travel or "glide" to these points? Or does the world rotate around the sun, and cause its light to hit those points?

Arthra said:

Recall that there were many advances in Astronomy encouraged by Muslims in the middle ages:

Islamic astronomers added mathematical methods to their empirical observations.[12] According to David King, after the rise of Islam, the religious obligation to determine the qibla and prayer times inspired more progress in astronomy for centuries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

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This is very true, but it does not take away from the erroneous teaching that the sun travels to a rising (or setting) place or places.

There have also been Christian astronomers and scientists, but their discoveries were to a large part made in spite of, not because of, the scientific errors in the Bible.

Arthra said:

I particularly like the phrase quoted above from the Hadith:

"Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith."

So likely this refers to the point where a dispensation has spent itself and a new one is required from the Almighty.

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It is an interesting idea, but I see the problem with this prophecy being is that it describes the sun doing something that it doesn't do, and claims that it will reverse on that one day.

cloudyday2 said:

These questions brought to mind this quote from Tocqueville:

http://www.quoteland.com/author/Alexis-de-Tocqueville-Quotes/1951/

I didn't fully appreciate this quote until you started posting your questions. As they say, "less is more"

(Of course I don't mean to insult Muslims and others.)

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Interesting quote, but the error is from the hadiths, not the Quran. The Bible unfortunately also contains a lot of scientific bloopers, and I say this as a Christian.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

"The purpose here is to tell that the sun is not moving on its own, not of its volition or power. Instead, it is moving in subservience to the One who is Mighty and Knowing, and moving under the predetermined system originated by an entity with great power and knowledge."

"....It means that the entire creation of Allah is engaged in worshipping and glorifying Allah, but each has its own separate way of doing it that has already been taught to it just like human beings who have been told how to do their salah and tasbih. Therefore, taking the prostration (sajdah) of the sun to mean that it can take effect only when it places its forehead on some floor like a human being would not be correct.

And when it stands clarified from the statements of the Qur'an and Sunnah that the Divine Throne, the ‘arsh of the Allah, surrounds all heavens and stars and surfaces, it is already obvious that the sun is nowhere but under the ‘arsh, at all times and at every place. And when experience bears out that the time the sun is setting at one place, it is also rising at another. Therefore, no moment of the sun is free of either rising or setting. Thus, the being of the sun under the ‘arsh is also perennial under all states and so is its setting and rising. Therefore, the outcome of the subject mentioned in the Hadith is that the sun, in its entire orbit, remains in the state of prostration before Allah under the ‘arsh, that is, it moves under His permission and command. And this cycle will stay activated right through the proximity of the last Day of Resurrection until comes the time for the emergence of the sign that the Day of Resurrection is very close. When this happens, the sun will, rather than start its next orbit, be commanded to turn back - and then, it will rise from the west. At that time, the door of repentance will be closed and no declaration of faith or repentance from anyone shall remain acceptable at that hour.

In short, this particularity of the setting of the sun, its passing under the ‘arsh, the making of prostration there and the incidence of seeking permission for the next orbit mentioned in the narration being studied is simply a similitude in consonance with the mores of effective prophetic teaching and in terms of common perception. Neither does it make it necessary that it performs prostration (sajdah) on some land surface like a human being, nor does it make it necessary that there be some pause in the movement of the sun at the time of making a prostration, nor does it mean that it goes to some particular place doing only one prostration during a day and night, and nor that it goes beneath the ‘arsh after setting only. But, at this time of great alternation, when people are seeing that the sun is receding away from them, what has been done is that they have been appraised of the truth of what is happening in the manner of a similitude while the reality is that this whole thing is happening because of the sun moving beneath the ‘arsh in subservience to the Divine command - the sun does not have any capability or power of its own. So, the way, at this time, the people of Madinah were convinced that the sun would now make its prostration and seek permission for the next orbit, similarly, the message was relayed onwards to every place where the sun would be setting and everyone there would stand advised of the lesson thereof.

Meaning of Prostration of the Sun Under the Throne

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Salaam alaikum, and thank you for quoting this. I will comment on each section you cited in red.

"The purpose here is to tell that the sun is not moving on its own, not of its volition or power. Instead, it is moving in subservience to the One who is Mighty and Knowing, and moving under the predetermined system originated by an entity with great power and knowledge."
- Fair enough, I agree that the sun and every other form of creation moves only with the permission of God.

"....It means that the entire creation of Allah is engaged in worshipping and glorifying Allah, but each has its own separate way of doing it that has already been taught to it just like human beings who have been told how to do their salah and tasbih. Therefore, taking the prostration (sajdah) of the sun to mean that it can take effect only when it places its forehead on some floor like a human being would not be correct.
- I fully agree with this also.

And when it stands clarified from the statements of the Qur'an and Sunnah that the Divine Throne, the ‘arsh of the Allah, surrounds all heavens and stars and surfaces, it is already obvious that the sun is nowhere but under the ‘arsh, at all times and at every place. And when experience bears out that the time the sun is setting at one place, it is also rising at another. Therefore, no moment of the sun is free of either rising or setting. Thus, the being of the sun under the ‘arsh is also perennial under all states and so is its setting and rising. Therefore, the outcome of the subject mentioned in the Hadith is that the sun, in its entire orbit, remains in the state of prostration before Allah under the ‘arsh, that is, it moves under His permission and command. And this cycle will stay activated right through the proximity of the last Day of Resurrection until comes the time for the emergence of the sign that the Day of Resurrection is very close. When this happens, the sun will, rather than start its next orbit, be commanded to turn back - and then, it will rise from the west. At that time, the door of repentance will be closed and no declaration of faith or repentance from anyone shall remain acceptable at that hour.
- If the sun is at no moment free from rising or setting (which is true) then stating that it "glides" to a place of rising is false. How can you travel to and from a place where you always are situated? If I am always on the planet earth, then saying that I move to and from it is not true.
If the sun is always in orbit and in a state of prostration to God (which I also believe is true), it changing its orbit would not mean it would "rise from the West". The only way the sun could be seen to rise from the West would be if the earth changed the direction of its rotation... the rotation that makes it seem it is "rising from the East". The sun's orbit has no effect on from which direction it "rises" or "sets".

In short, this particularity of the setting of the sun, its passing under the ‘arsh, the making of prostration there and the incidence of seeking permission for the next orbit mentioned in the narration being studied is simply a similitude in consonance with the mores of effective prophetic teaching and in terms of common perception.
- Muhammad could have very easily said that the sun will seem to rise from the West, or that even it would do that, and it would have nothing more than a figure of speech. Yet he specifically described the sun as doing something it does not do, which is gliding to and from a "rising place".

Neither does it make it necessary that it performs prostration (sajdah) on some land surface like a human being, nor does it make it necessary that there be some pause in the movement of the sun at the time of making a prostration, nor does it mean that it goes to some particular place doing only one prostration during a day and night, and nor that it goes beneath the ‘arsh after setting only.
- I am not suggesting that Muhammad claimed that the sun prostrates like a human being, but if you read the hadith he did say that it glides to the Throne, falls and remains prostrate, then is told to go back to its place of rising.
If the sun is constantly in a state of prostration, then it makes no sense for it to glide to the Throne, fall prostrate, and remain in that state until it is asked to go to the place of rising. It is allegedly always prostrating.

But, at this time of great alternation, when people are seeing that the sun is receding away from them, what has been done is that they have been appraised of the truth of what is happening in the manner of a similitude while the reality is that this whole thing is happening because of the sun moving beneath the ‘arsh in subservience to the Divine command - the sun does not have any capability or power of its own. So, the way, at this time, the people of Madinah were convinced that the sun would now make its prostration and seek permission for the next orbit, similarly, the message was relayed onwards to every place where the sun would be setting and everyone there would stand advised of the lesson thereof.
- Muhammad did truly say that the sun prostrates to God is controlled by Him. However, it is not true that the sun moves to and from "a rising place", which is also what he taught.

I read the article before and have respect for the author, but I think he is trying to cover up an obvious error. Using modern knowledge, he says what is true, that the sun is never free from rising or setting... but this is not what Muhammad said in his teaching, in fact, what he said implied the complete opposite.

Ibn Qathir, a Muslim scholar who lived closer to Muhammad's time, and did not yet have the knowledge that the earth is revolving around the sun and not vice versa, had this to say in his commentary of the hadith:

(And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing) There are two views over the meaning of the phrase
-﴿لِمُسْتَقَرٍّ لَّهَـا﴾
-(on its fixed course for a term (appointed). ) (The first view) is that it refers to its fixed course of location, which is beneath the Throne, beyond the earth in that direction. Wherever it goes, it is beneath the Throne, it and all of creation, because the Throne is the roof of creation and it is not a sphere as many astronomers claim. Rather it is a dome supported by legs or pillars, carried by the angels, and it is above the universe, above the heads of people. When the sun is at its zenith at noon, it is in its closest position to Throne, and when it runs in its fourth orbit at the opposite point to its zenith, at midnight, it is in its furthest position from the Throne. At that point it prostrates and asks for permission to rise, as mentioned in the Hadiths. Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Dharr, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "I was with the Prophet in the Masjid at sunset, and he said: :
-«يَا أَبَا ذَرَ، أَتَدْرِي أَيْنَ تَغْرُبُ الشَّمْسُ؟»
-(O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets) I said, `Allah and His Messenger know best.' He said:
-«فَإِنَّهَا تَذْهَبُ حَتْى تَسْجُدَ تَحْتَ الْعَرْشِ، فَذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُ تَعَالَى:
-﴿وَالشَّمْسُ تَجْرِى لِمُسْتَقَرٍّ لَّهَـا ذَلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ ﴾»
-(It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, and that is what Allah says: (And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.))''
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1487&Itemid=92

There were varying interpretations of what 36:38 means, that the sun runs on its fixed course for a term.

However, the hadith from Muhammad is pretty clear. The sun moves to a closest and furthest position from the throne, and when it is furthest from it, after prostration, it asks for permission to rise.

This is the most straightforward and in my opinion most sensible interpretation of the hadith. I am not aware of Muslim scholars prior to the 16th century, when Copernicus was born, providing any interpretations of this hadith that state that the sun is "at no moment free of rising and setting". Muhammad clearly said that after it sets, it travels to the Throne where it prostrates, from there travels to a place of rising, and then repeats this pattern. In the End Times, it will reverse this course and rise from its setting place.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

Since you seem to be more interested in the setting of the sun, here is another page from the same site that deals with a similar issue but from a different perspective (this is about how it appeared to a human):

In Tafsir Jalalayn co-authored by al-Suyuti (d. 911 A.H.) and al-Mahalli (d. 864 A.H.), we find the following words;

وغروبها في العين في رأي العين

“… its setting in a spring is [described as seen] from the perspective of the eye.” (ONLINE SOURCE)

Before them Ibn Kathir (d. 774 A.H.) wrote:
رَأَى الشَّمْسَ فِي مَنْظَرِهِ تَغْرُبُ فِي الْبَحْرِ الْمُحِيطِ، وَهَذَا شَأْنُ كُلِّ مَنِ انْتَهَى إِلَى سَاحِلِهِ، يَرَاهَا كَأَنَّهَا تَغْرُبُ فِيهِ، وَهِيَ لَا تُفَارِقُ الْفَلَكَ الرَّابِعَ الَّذِي هِيَ مُثَبَّتَةٌ فِيهِ لَا تُفَارِقُهُ

“… he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed.” (ONLINE SOURCE)

And even before him Nasiruddin al-Baydhawi (d. 691 A.H.) said:
ولعله بلغ ساحل المحيط فرآها كذلك إذ لم يكن في مطمح بصره غير الماء ولذلك قال { وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ } ولم يقل كانت تغرب

“Perhaps he reached shore of an ocean and saw it like that as there was nothing in his sight except water and for this reason it is said, “and he perceived it to set”, and not that it actually sets.” (Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Tawil 4/14)

Sun sets in the murky water as per Qur'an?

So the term setting may also be understood in that context though it appears to be more relative to the Throne of Allaah. Allaah knows best.

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Salaam Alaikum and thank you for this, LoveBeingAMuslimah.

I don't hold the view that the Quran claims that the sun literally sets into a pool of murky water, and the commentaries you cited do make clear that the sun was only perceived by Dhul Al Qarnain, to have set in a pool of murky water.

None of these commentaries however make the claim that the sun does not travel (or have) a "rising place" and a "setting place".

Muhammad, unlike verse 76:18, did not merely say that the sun was seen to be setting somewhere, or that it even sets in the West. That still would have been just a figure of speech.
He went further than that, and described what he believed was the path of the sun, gliding to and from a "rising place". He gave this description after viewing with a friend the setting of the sun, and after setting out to explain "where the sun goes" during this time of day.

I think it is clear that he had a geocentric understanding of the world around him, and it showed in some of his religious teachings.

Consider this example, when Muhammad claimed that Satan is near the sun when it rises and when it is approaches the meridian and when it is setting, and departs from it when it has fully risen, after it passed the zenith, and has finished setting.

It was narrated from 'Abdullah As-Sunabihi that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
"The sun rises and with it the horn of the Shaitan, then when it is fully risen, he goes away. Then when it approaches the meridian he comes near to it, and when it has passed the zenith he goes away. Then when it is close to setting, he comes near to it, then when it has set, he goes away." And the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) forbade praying at those times.
http://sunnah.com/urn/1005610

We know that at some point in some part of the world, there is always sunrise and at another point sunset and the sun is at the point of zenith at yet another point. How can Satan then come and go from the sun? According to the teaching above, he must be at the same time near and away from it, since all of these positions of the sun are simultaneously covered in some part of the globe, at every time.

Arthra said:

There are poetic allusions I think not necessarily to be taken literally...

From the Hadith quoted above by TG:

Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.

I was remembering a Hadith that mentions the sun rising in the West... this is a kind of prophecy that alludes to the the Day of Judgement and the appearance of the Mahdi.

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If it weren't for the specific descriptions of how the sun glides and where, I would agree with you. The hadith that mentions the sun rising in the West is dependent on the sun doing something that it never does or has done in the past. It erroneously correlates what we call "sunrise" and "sunset" with the movement of the sun, which we know is not true and in fact depends on the movement of the earth.

Arthra said:

I don't think I would agree with you.. Hadith as you probably know don't have to be based on specific measurements as you suggest ..They can have figurative and symbolic meanings. It's possible the meaning could just as well be that the world is turned "upside down" or that the sun rising in the West means that there's a new perspective ... Things are no longer what they used to be.

In the Bible you have a "new heaven" and a "new earth".

In Second Peter:

3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

In the Qur'an:

104. The Day that we roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed) -- even as We produced the first Creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 21)

Notice how the new creation is tied to a promise and a fulfillment.

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Hi Arthra,

Thanks for sharing this. 2 Peter 3:13 and 21:104 describe future events.

The prophecy in the hadith we are discussing does describe a future event, but the future event is based on the opposite of what the sun is allegedly doing in the present and is dependent on it. The problem is that the sun does not move in the way Muhammad describes it moving, so that for me makes his prophecy problematic.

If I said that water in the Niagara Falls is purple and in the End Times it will turn pink, regardless of whether or not it will turn pink, the prediction is off because it is not purple to begin with.
Likewise, the sun does not and never has moved to a "rising place", given that no such place exists or ever has existed. Knowing this, it is problematic to say that one day it will rise from a "setting place". The whole prophecy is based on a misunderstanding of how the sun moves. The problem is that Muhammad claims that God inspired him, so now we have a question as to why would God give him this false information, which he passed on to others.

Salaam Alaikum.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

You do not know the nature of its gliding nor do you know the nature of it prostrating and rising from its prostration. We believe everything prostrates to God but the nature of it is different from what we may expect. Similarly, the prostrating and rising of the sun is also a matter of the unseen.

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How can the rising of the sun be a matter of the unseen if Dhul Al Qarnain saw it to be rising on a people who have no shelter from it?

18:90
Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield.

Also, the sun's movement is easily observable by astronomists.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

You don't know if the Earth won't change direction either. All the narration mentions is that God will command it to rise from the West (to the best of my knowledge, this is how we will perceive it on Earth). How this commandment will be fulfilled we do not know.

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Had Muhammad said that the earth will change its direction, that would be one thing. If we perceive the sun to be rising from the West on the earth, it would be as a result of God changing the course of the earth, not the course of the sun.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

But how do you know it doesn't? Like I mentioned above, everything prostrates even though people may not be able to observe this prostration. Why do you think we would be able to observe everything the sun does in its worship of God?

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Because, unlike prostration of the sun, the Quran describes people seeing it rising.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

Where did he get the understanding about the sun being closer and further from the Throne though?

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I am not sure, but it does make sense if you look at the hadith. The sun is always under the Throne of God, but at some points it prostrates and at others it rises. It would make sense to assume that the sun prostrates when it is furthest from the throne, and is closest to it when it reaches its zenith.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

1.) From Tahfeem al Qur'aan:

The rising and the setting of the sun between the horns of Satan is a symbolic expression that has been used in this Tradition. This implies that both these times are used by Satan as temptations for the people. This is, as if to say, that Satan is so pleased with the worship of the unbelievers at the time of sunrise and sunset that he appears to carry the sun on his head as a mark of approval. This interpretation of the Tradition is based on this remark of the Holy Prophet: "The unbelievers fall prostrate before it. "

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If this is the case, why say that Satan follows the sun at certain times and leaves it at others, or that it rises between his horns? It would have been enough to say that some people worship at the time of sunrise and sunset and he likes that.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

2.) Even if we are to take it literally:

a.) The shayateen are jinn and jinn can travel fast as I mentioned on that other thread (when I mentioned the jinn carrying the throne of the queen of Sheba more than 1,000 miles in the twinkling of an eye).

b.) There are many satans.

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I understand that according to what Islam teaches, jinns move very fast. I don't see how it would resolve this issue. Whether they or it (depends if there are several satans or just one) are present with the sun when is rising and absent from it when it goes down, it would still be a problem, because the sun is always doing all of these things.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

c.) It can very easily be taken as how it relates to each individual. There is another narration that there is an hour on Friday that a supplication is not rejected (i.e. between 'Asr and Maghrib prayers). It is the time between 'Asr and Maghrib multiple times in one day if we are to look at the world as a whole. However, I'm not going to say at 8 AM my time that it's time to supplicate in hopes of getting that one hour just because it may be the time between 'Asr and Maghrib on the other side of the world. I will supplicate when it is between my 'Asr and Maghrib time. Same principle can apply here.

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The rules for prayer time make sense, and of course you would pray when it is time on your part of the continent.

, that is different from saying that Satan will be with the sun at some points of its alleged movement ("rising" and "setting") and not others. This could be possible only if the sun rises and sets in only one part of the globe at a given time.

What does it mean that during a certain hour on Friday, supplication is not rejected?

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

What about the fact that the Earth goes around the Sun?

Some people have wondered how these texts should be understood in relation to the Earth's movement around the Sun and the fact that sunrise and sunset are a consequence of the Earth revolving around its axis. What they fail to realize is that these texts talk about the Sun's relationship to the Throne of Allah, not its relationship to the Earth.

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If the texts that describe the sun's rising and setting are talking about its relationship to the Throne of Allah and not the earth, then how would the following hadith be explained:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A place in Paradise as small as a bow is better than all that on which the sun rises and sets (i.e. all the world)." He also said, "A single endeavor in Allah's Cause in the afternoon or in the forenoon is better than all that on which the sun rises and sets."
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/11

The person who translated this hadith into English made the assumption that the sun rises and sets on the world, which is why he put it in brackets. Why would that be?

Let's assume though that by "everything the sun rises and sets on" refers to God's Throne. Are we saying here that a place in Paradise that is as small as a bow is better than the Throne of God?

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

The first point that we need to consider is that nowhere in any of these texts is it mentioned that the Sun is revolving around the Earth. The word used for the Sun’s motion in all of these texts is the verb “tajrî” meaning “to go, flow, proceed”. This verb is not qualified by any other words indicating a spherical motion of any kind or any specific type of motion relative to the Earth.

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Nowhere also is it mentioned that the sun rises and sets on the Throne of God. The Quran does have a verse which states Dhul Al Qarnain found it rising on a people, and there is a hadith that states that a small piece of Paradise is better than everything that the sun rises and sets on.

Can you find me any pre-16th century intepretations of the hadith we are discussing that states that the sun does not rise and set relative to the earth?

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

The second point that we must consider is that nowhere does the hadîth discuss the mechanics of the Sun’s motion in any way. Likewise, it says nothing about the mechanics of the motions of the Sun and the Earth on that fateful day when the Sun will rise from the West.

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The hadith states that the sun travels to and from a "rising place" and that on that fateful day it will be told to go and rise from its "setting place".

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

Thirdly, the place of settlement mentioned in the hadîth is beneath the throne and not under the Earth.

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According to what Islam teaches, everything is beneath the throne of God, is it not?

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

What we know scientifically about the Sun is that it is indeed in motion. It is traveling around the center of the galaxy at roughly 220 km/s in an orbit that takes about 230 million years to complete.

It may be interesting to take note of the fact that the Qur’ân mentions an orbital motion for the Sun. Allah says: “It is not for the Sun to overtake the Moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.” [Sûrah YâSîn: 40]

However, we must caution that the verse says nothing about the nature or placement of the Sun’s orbit. It states only that the Sun has one.

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The verse does say very accurately that the sun and moon are in orbit.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

As for the Sun’s relationship to the Throne, which is what the hadîth is discussing, this is something that we cannot speculate about. The Throne is part of the Unseen and we know nothing about it except what Allah and His Messenger tell us about it. It follows that the Sun’s behavior in relationship to the throne, both spatially and temporally, is also a matter of the Unseen.

We must believe whatever Allah and His Messenger inform us about the Sun's relationship to Allah's Throne and not speculate any further on the subject.

We can, therefore, safely conclude that these texts are not taking about the Sun’s relationship to the Earth at all. They certainly do not indicate that the Sun orbits the Earth.

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LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

"And the sun runs on to its place of settlement...."

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Nowhere in the hadith is it stated that the sun's rising and setting is in relationship to the Throne of Allah, and I am unaware of any pre-16th century Muslim theologians interpreting it that way. I am aware of at least one scholar, Ibn Qathir, who understood the hadith to mean that the sun does have a literal rising place, and is closer and further from the Throne depending on its position.
If the sun rises and sets on the Throne of Allah and not the earth, does it follow then that the Throne of Allah is nothing in comparison to a small sliver of Paradise, the size of a bow?

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

The whole article is important. I just underlined a portion of it because it's reflective of my feelings. This is part of the unseen and I feel uneasy talking about it too much lest I say something incorrect about my religion (I'm uncomfortable talking about Islaam in general if it is just my opinion and I don't have a lot of knowledge about the subject, but it's even more heightened when it comes to the unseen).

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Thank you and no problem, again, only comment what you want to comment on and say what you feel comfortable saying, I'm not a mukhabarat interrogator lol (hopefully I don't come across as one either).