Here is the quote that changed forever my view of EGW

Adventist Heretic · Jul 14, 2015

The paragragph that Changed my life........@ page 83 paragraph 4, you will find the following quote " What troubled the obstinate Smith was not so much the specific theology of Jones and Waggoner so much as Ellen Whites Role in supporting it. The venerable editor had understood her to condemned the position on the basis of a vision in 1856 when Waggoner's father had advocated the same Idea. (That was the problem).....It preplexed Smith that Ellen White could do an about face and endorse what she fromerly opposed. He was sure there had to be a conspirisy afoot.https://books.google.com/books?id=5...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Adventist Heretic · Jul 14, 2015

icedragon101 said:
The paragragph that Changed my life........@ page 83 paragraph 4, you will find the following quote " What troubled the obstinate Smith was not so much the specific theology of Jones and Waggoner so much as Ellen Whites Role in supporting it. The venerable editor had understood her to condemned the position on the basis of a vision in 1856 when Waggoner's father had advocated the same Idea. (That was the problem).....It preplexed Smith that Ellen White could do an about face and endorse what she fromerly opposed. He was sure there had to be a conspirisy afoot.https://books.google.com/books?id=5...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

you can click on the link to read it for your self in it's context.

CaptainToad · Jul 30, 2015

thats the problem with following human beings and accepting them as authority

EastCoastRemnant · Aug 1, 2015

icedragon101 said:
The paragragph that Changed my life........@ page 83 paragraph 4, you will find the following quote " What troubled the obstinate Smith was not so much the specific theology of Jones and Waggoner so much as Ellen Whites Role in supporting it. The venerable editor had understood her to condemned the position on the basis of a vision in 1856 when Waggoner's father had advocated the same Idea. (That was the problem).....It preplexed Smith that Ellen White could do an about face and endorse what she fromerly opposed. He was sure there had to be a conspirisy afoot.https://books.google.com/books?id=5...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Two things come to me as I read this... you will notice that Prescott refers to Uriah Smith as obstinate and that he also had a problem with Jones and Waggoner's 1888 message... I don't know about you but anyone who would object to the 1888 message could not be reliable in their opinions on other matters concerning the church.

Also concerning his writings, and other pioneer writers she said...

'I dare not say they were not led of God, for Christ leads into all truth; but when it

comes to inspiration in the fullest sense, I answer, No. I believe that God has given them a work to do, but

if they are not fully consecrated to God at all times, they will weave self and their peculiar traits of

character into what they are doing, and will put their mold upon the work'."-E. G. White, Review and

Herald, March 25, 1890.

(Unfortunately Uriah Smith, through introducing among us the teaching that Turkey is the king of

the north, did place "his mold upon the work", and some today are so restricted by this “mold" that they

find it difficult to move with the rest of God's people who have returned to the early denominational

teaching that the Papacy is the king of the north.)

I would not place my beliefs on Uriah Smiths writings or opinions for in seems that at times he was proven to be in error.

tall73 · Aug 3, 2015

icedragon101 said:
The paragragph that Changed my life........@ page 83 paragraph 4, you will find the following quote " What troubled the obstinate Smith was not so much the specific theology of Jones and Waggoner so much as Ellen Whites Role in supporting it. The venerable editor had understood her to condemned the position on the basis of a vision in 1856 when Waggoner's father had advocated the same Idea. (That was the problem).....It preplexed Smith that Ellen White could do an about face and endorse what she fromerly opposed. He was sure there had to be a conspirisy afoot.https://books.google.com/books?id=5...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

I think what this thread would need is the smoking gun--something that makes plain what Waggoner's father's position was at the time that was rebuked.

Ellen White's inability to remember what she said back then, and constant deflection certainly didn't look good. But Uriah's problem dealt with the statements of the elder Waggoner, so those would need to be presented to fill out the picture.

tall73 · Aug 3, 2015

EastCoastRemnant said:
Two things come to me as I read this... you will notice that Prescott refers to Uriah Smith as obstinate and that he also had a problem with Jones and Waggoner's 1888 message... I don't know about you but anyone who would object to the 1888 message could not be reliable in their opinions on other matters concerning the church.

But that is just the problem. He claimed to be objecting because he claims EGW objected back when Waggoner's father presented the same message.

The issue was not Smith's own ideas. The issue was whether Ellen White changed her view.

More evidence would be needed in this thread to demonstrate that, however.

Adventist Heretic · Aug 6, 2015

EastCoastRemnant said:
Two things come to me as I read this... you will notice that Prescott refers to Uriah Smith as obstinate and that he also had a problem with Jones and Waggoner's 1888 message [That is the authors characterization] .... I don't know about you but anyone who would object to the 1888 message could not be reliable in their opinions on other matters concerning the church.

Thank-you ECR for showing your complete ignorance of SDA history. The reason Uriah Smith is credible is that he was EGW's chief supporter. He was the apologist that got her the influence amoung the advent people. He wrote more on EGW's prophetic gift then any other person before this. Even when EGW and James were run out of battle creek in the 1870's U.S. Stood by her. He convinced other of her calling. Without Uriah Smith there is no Ellen White. So when U.S. say he remember what she said in 1856 his words hold the most influence to a reasonalble person.

also concerning his writings, and other pioneer writers she said...

again thank-you for showing your complete lack of understanding of the issue. While it is true that U.S. did take the king of the north literally and thus turkey, it was becauce of the Endorsement of EGW that he became so influential. She told James not to make this point a big deal. James said the king of the north was the papacy. EGW said it was not a big deal. Are you beginning to see the problem With EGW. Just like in 1888 the had to go against the prophetic endorsement of EGW to correct the error. That is the fundimental problem with the authority of EGW and thus the problem with SDA theology. Thanks for bring that up.

I would not place my beliefs on Uriah Smiths writings or opinions for in seems that at times he was proven to be in error.

the errors are directly related to EGW

Adventist Heretic · Aug 6, 2015

tall73 said:
I think what this thread would need is the smoking gun--something that makes plain what Waggoner's father's position was at the time that was rebuked.

we have the book. I have read it, it is actually a really good piece of work. here is the link, you might find a better copy
https://archive.org/details/J.H.WaggonerTheLawOfGodAnExaminationOfTheTestimonyOfBoth

http://temcat.com/L-1-adv-pioneer-lib/JHWAGGON/LAW.pdf

EastCoastRemnant · Aug 6, 2015

I'll leave you two Pharisee's to it then...

CaptainToad · Aug 19, 2015

EastCoastRemnant said:
I'll leave you two Pharisee's to it then...

Why would you call anyone a Pharisee? Do you know these people so well as to call them this way?

What is a Pharisee to you anyway?

Is it someone who has an opinion that is not like yours?

Maybe you are a Pharisee to other people as well? ever thought about that?

BTW do you think you have the ultimate opinion on things?

EastCoastRemnant · Aug 20, 2015

Pharisees were men that thought their education and knowledge was above reproach... my knowledge is in line with traditional Adventist teaching... not my wisdom.

CaptainToad · Aug 22, 2015

EastCoastRemnant said:
Pharisees were men that thought their education and knowledge was above reproach... my knowledge is in line with traditional Adventist teaching... not my wisdom.

Its all relative, you can be a Pharisee too, I guess the Pharisees knowledge was in line with their teachings as well,
I always thought it was their pride and position that was their downfall.

EastCoastRemnant · Aug 22, 2015

CaptainToad said:
Its all relative, you can be a Pharisee too, I guess the Pharisees knowledge was in line with their teachings as well,
I always thought it was their pride and position that was their downfall.

Their traditions didn't match with what the scriptures stated...

Adventist Heretic · Aug 24, 2015

EastCoastRemnant said:
Their traditions didn't match with what the scriptures stated...

I guess we should rely on the least experienced and least qualified person on the forum?

CaptainToad · Aug 28, 2015

EastCoastRemnant said:
Their traditions didn't match with what the scriptures stated...

are sda traditions in line with what the scriptures state?

EastCoastRemnant · Aug 28, 2015

CaptainToad said:
are sda traditions in line with what the scriptures state?

Adventist Heretic · Sep 4, 2015

CaptainToad said:
are sda traditions in line with what the scriptures state?

nope

now faith · Oct 21, 2015

I have always found SDA. Teachers to be very sound on most topics on the Bible.
There are some aspects that I find out of sorts for the level of quality being taught.

Soul sleep is debatable , diet as well ,but these are not deal breakers in my opinion.

I have a great respect for Walter Vieth, Doug Batchelor to name a couple.

My issue is the obsession over Elen White.

Dave-W · Oct 22, 2015

now faith said:
My issue is the obsession over Elen White.

Isn't she less of an issue in the Evangelical wing of the denom?

now faith · Oct 23, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
Isn't she less of an issue in the Evangelical wing of the denom?

I have no idea, I thought SDA was anti Charismatic.
Evangelicals sometimes consider a divide from Charismatic beliefs pertaining to Spiritual gifts etc.

I assumed SDA is a conservative Evangelical denomination.

Are there different doctrines among SDA?

Here is the quote that changed forever my view of EGW

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