God's LAW has not ended -- according to the Bible

LoveofTruth · Aug 26, 2015

BobRyan said:
QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68521331, member: 235244"]A number of people here do not consider Heb 8 and Jer 31:31-33 texts on the New Covenant - to be error at all.

What I was referring to was that the law written on the heart is the Ten commandments, that is what i was saying is not the case. The love of God shed abroad in the heart is the law of the Spirit. Not ten commandments that are a ministration of condemnation to all, and not made for the righteous man, the end of the law is love in the heart by the Spirit.

BobRyan · Aug 26, 2015

10 Commandments are
Commandments of God Neh 10:29
Law of God ; Neh 10:29
Word of God Mark 7:13
Commandment of God Mark 7:6-13
NT ScriptureJames 2:8
NT Law James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

No wonder scripture has this for the saved - for the saved - for the New Covenant Christ -- "I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart". Heb 8:6-10

LoveofTruth said:
What I was referring to was that the law written on the heart is the Ten commandments, that is what i was saying is not the case.

As scripture shows - the moral Law of God does include the Ten Commandments and that had to be the case in Jer 31:31-33 just as quoted in Heb 8

Even Paul in Romans 7 contrasts the Ten Commandment Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - against the law of sin and death - the sinful nature.

BobRyan · Aug 26, 2015

As we saw on page one of this thread

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68517281, member: 235244"]Notice the point in these texts about "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." Romans 8:2 as the NT authors show how it affirms God's Ten Commandments?

====================================
QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68476380, member: 235244"]NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

And so then what about "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2 -- does it free us to take God's name in vain to be set free from the "Law of Sin and death" or does it simply refer to Romans 7

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are
Commandments of God Neh 10:29
Law of God ; Neh 10:29
Word of God Mark 7:13
Commandment of GodMark 7:6-13
NT ScriptureJames 2:8
NT Law James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

LoveofTruth · Aug 26, 2015

[QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68521430, member: 235244"Even Paul in Romans 7 contrasts the Ten Commandment Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - against the law of sin and death - the sinful nature.[/QUOTE]
No this is exactly where you miss it and many others,

Paul said that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ jesus made believers free from the law of sin and death. The ten commandments and the whole Mosaic law are a law of sin and death, m they are not the Spirit but the letter. They do not bring righteousness and cannot. they simply show what sin is and that men are not in the Law of the Spirit in Christ, which is LOVE.

You add the words "the Ten Commandment Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - against the law of sin and death" This is your error, Paul does not add the words as you do, "the Ten Commandment Law of the Spirit..."

He says,

"2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."(Romans 8:2 KJV)

and he says,

"1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, ... the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."(Romans 5:1,2,5 KJV)

BobRyan · Aug 26, 2015

LoveofTruth said:
QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68521430, member: 235244"Even Paul in Romans 7 contrasts the Ten Commandment Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - against the law of sin and death - the sinful nature.
============================
No this is exactly where you miss it and many others,

Paul said that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ jesus made believers free from the law of sin and death

He said that in Rom 8 after saying in Rom 7 that the law of sin and death is his sinful nature "in his flesh" and that with his mind he joyfully agrees with the Ten Commandment Law of God - therefore "in context" the law of life - the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is that with which he "joyfully agrees" in Romans 7--- the TEN commandments.

If you follow the point closely - it is impossible to miss in Romans 7 as it goes to Romans 8.

Since you are apparently just skimming the oft-repeated texts - you are missing the point entirely.

rnmomof7 · Aug 27, 2015

BobRyan said:
God's Law remains for the lost -- still condemning all the world as sinners in need of a Savior.

God's law remains in the NEW Covenant for the saints "written on the mind and heart".

======================================================

Paul says that "step 1" for the unbeliever is to admit that you are a sinner as defined by the LAW of God - that still is binding to this very day. God's Law defines what sin is - and so it tells the lost - they have a problem.

And Paul says - the Law of God STILL does that work -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

=====================================

And for the saved -- the "LAW is written on the mind and on the heart" -- Heb 8:7-10

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Or can we dismiss these texts in favor of equivocating between the Old Covenant and the Law of God such that God's commandments are to be "Abolished".

NEW Covenant:
Jer 31:31-33 "I will write my LAW on their mind and heart" -- same Law - but different context.

Rejecting that infallible truth could lead to rejecting almost all of scripture itself. OT, Gospels, and any NT text quoting the OT.

Actually Gentiles were never under the commandments.. they're Gods gift to Israel... Gentiles were given the Noahic law .

The purpose of the Law, has maintained its purpose... that is to show men they are sinners in need of a Savior..

Christ fulfilled the law for all the saved.. but it remains a framework by which we can live our lives and know when we have sinned.. but we are no longer under its condemnation

disciple1 · Aug 27, 2015

[/QUOTE]

This is where you miss it. The law was added because of transgressions, it is not made for a righteous man, and when a person comes to Jesus by faith the law is done away in its ministration to him. It is really only for the lost to lead them to Christ.

And all believers are in the rest of God every day forever.

and i found a page you might want to examine

http://www.bible.ca/7-heaven-isa-66.htm[/QUOTE]
Matthew chapter 21

32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness,27 and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors28 and the prostitutes29 did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent30 and believe him.
Luke chapter 3

10 “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.

11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

BobRyan · Aug 27, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
Actually Gentiles were never under the commandments.. they're Gods gift to Israel...

The New Covenant is given to "The house of Israel and the house of Judah" Jer 31:31-33, even in the NT Heb 8:6-10

Gentiles were given not only the Commandments of God - but also the Sabbath commandment in both OT and NT.

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68476464, member: 235244"]

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

James 2 - NLT -

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

(That is quote of Lev 19:18 -- the Law of Moses)

9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

(There we see the law of Moses called "God's Laws")

11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

That is quote of Moses' law - in Ex 20 - spoken by God Himself.

Even in the OT the gentiles are said to be under the Law of God when it comes to the moral law and the Ten Commandments -- even the Sabbath Commandments.

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

Is 56:2-7
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"[/QUOTE]

========================================

The purpose of the Law, has maintained its purpose... that is to show men they are sinners in need of a Savior..

That is the purpose of the Law of God for the lost - but as the NT text point out above - for the saints they are "written on the mind and heart" - -Heb 8:6-10

Christ fulfilled the law for all the saved.. but it remains a framework by which we can live our lives and know when we have sinned.. but we are no longer under its condemnation

That is true - even though we are gentiles in most cases - we still "KEEP the Commandments of God AND our faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

rnmomof7 · Aug 28, 2015

BobRyan said:
The New Covenant is given to "The house of Israel and the house of Judah" Jer 31:31-33, even in the NT Heb 8:6-10

Gentiles were given not only the Commandments of God - but also the Sabbath commandment in both OT and NT.

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68476464, member: 235244"]

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

James 2 - NLT -

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

(That is quote of Lev 19:18 -- the Law of Moses)

9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

(There we see the law of Moses called "God's Laws")

11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

That is quote of Moses' law - in Ex 20 - spoken by God Himself.

Even in the OT the gentiles are said to be under the Law of God when it comes to the moral law and the Ten Commandments -- even the Sabbath Commandments.

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

Is 56:2-7
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

========================================

That is the purpose of the Law of God for the lost - but as the NT text point out above - for the saints they are "written on the mind and heart" - -Heb 8:6-10

That is true - even though we are gentiles in most cases - we still "KEEP the Commandments of God AND our faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12[/QUOTE]

James was a letter written to the Jews...not a gentile church

The Law was specific to Israel...

The Noachide law was given to the gentiles

http://www.aish.com/w/nj/For_Non-Jews.html

BobRyan · Aug 28, 2015

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68525265, member: 235244"]The New Covenant is given to "The house of Israel and the house of Judah" Jer 31:31-33, even in the NT Heb 8:6-10

Gentiles were given not only the Commandments of God - but also the Sabbath commandment in both OT and NT.

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68476464, member: 235244"]

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

James 2 - NLT -

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

(That is quote of Lev 19:18 -- the Law of Moses)

9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

(There we see the law of Moses called "God's Laws")

11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

That is quote of Moses' law - in Ex 20 - spoken by God Himself.

Even in the OT the gentiles are said to be under the Law of God when it comes to the moral law and the Ten Commandments -- even the Sabbath Commandments.

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

Is 56:2-7
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"[/QUOTE]

========================================

That is the purpose of the Law of God for the lost - but as the NT text point out above - for the saints they are "written on the mind and heart" - -Heb 8:6-10

That is true - even though we are gentiles in most cases - we still "KEEP the Commandments of God AND our faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12[/QUOTE]

rnmomof7 said:
That is the purpose of the Law of God for the lost - but as the NT text point out above - for the saints they are "written on the mind and heart" - -Heb 8:6-10

That is true - even though we are gentiles in most cases - we still
"KEEP the Commandments of God AND our faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
===============================================

James was a letter written to the Jews...not a gentile church

The Law was specific to Israel...

The Noachide law was given to the gentiles

How many books in your Bible anyway?

We need to first agree to terms -- what part of the Bible do you consider to be valid for Christians to obey?
39 books of the OT?
4 books of the Gospels?
Hebrews?
James?
Revelation?
Acts?

How much of it do you cut out? lets define that first so that when I post Bible texts we don't have to go the rounds of dismissing scripture.

in Christ,

Bob

rnmomof7 · Aug 29, 2015

BobRyan said:
QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68525265, member: 235244"]The New Covenant is given to "The house of Israel and the house of Judah" Jer 31:31-33, even in the NT Heb 8:6-10

Gentiles were given not only the Commandments of God - but also the Sabbath commandment in both OT and NT.

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68476464, member: 235244"]

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

James 2 - NLT -

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

(That is quote of Lev 19:18 -- the Law of Moses)

9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

(There we see the law of Moses called "God's Laws")

11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

That is quote of Moses' law - in Ex 20 - spoken by God Himself.

Even in the OT the gentiles are said to be under the Law of God when it comes to the moral law and the Ten Commandments -- even the Sabbath Commandments.

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

Is 56:2-7
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

========================================

That is the purpose of the Law of God for the lost - but as the NT text point out above - for the saints they are "written on the mind and heart" - -Heb 8:6-10

That is true - even though we are gentiles in most cases - we still "KEEP the Commandments of God AND our faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12[/QUOTE]

How many books in your Bible anyway?

We need to first agree to terms -- what part of the Bible do you consider to be valid for Christians to obey?
39 books of the OT?
4 books of the Gospels?
Hebrews?
James?
Revelation?
Acts?

How much of it do you cut out? lets define that first so that when I post Bible texts we don't have to go the rounds of dismissing scripture.

in Christ,

Bob[/QUOTE]

What was THE PURPOSE of the law?

BobRyan · Aug 29, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
What was THE PURPOSE of the law?

For who - the lost? or the saved? In one respect - it has a different role for each.

In another respect it has the same role for both.

To Both it points out what sin is 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law"

But for the lost - they find that they are condemned by it and need a Savior. All the World - and every mouth - condemned Rom 3.

For the Saved they find the Law of God "Written on the mind and heart". Heb 8:6-10.

So which group are you interested in ? both?

BobRyan · Aug 31, 2015

Who is it that we find affirming these Bible texts on threads like this?

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

rnmomof7 · Aug 31, 2015

BobRyan said:
For who - the lost? or the saved? In one respect - it has a different role for each.

In another respect it has the same role for both.

To Both it points out what sin is 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law"

But for the lost - they find that they are condemned by it and need a Savior. All the World - and every mouth - condemned Rom 3.

For the Saved they find the Law of God "Written on the mind and heart". Heb 8:6-10.

So which group are you interested in ? both?

Scripture tells us that the law was written to be the schoolmaster that shows us we need a Savior..

Paul tells us he would have never known sin without the law....

1 Timothy 1:9
We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,

Romans 6:. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The law ( the 10 commandments ) was given to the jews.. never to the gentiles..

Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

The law remains as the schoolmaster to the unregenerate jews ...

Scripture tells us the law was always written on the hearts of Gentiles

Romans 2:12For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

There is no salvation in the law.. only condemnation ...Our salvation comes from the one that fulfilled the law perfectly for us.. no longer under the law, we rest in Christ .

BobRyan · Aug 31, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
Scripture tells us that the law was written to be the schoolmaster that shows us we need a Savior..

That is how the lost relate to it - and it works for them to lead them to the Gospel.

rnmomof7 said:
There is no salvation in the law.. only condemnation ...Our salvation comes from the one that fulfilled the law perfectly for us.. no longer under the law, we rest in Christ .

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68533143, member: 235244"]

To Both it points out what sin is 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law" EVEN for NT saints according to John

But for the lost - they find that they are condemned by it and need a Savior. All the World - and every mouth - condemned Rom 3.

For the Saved they find the Law of God "Written on the mind and heart". Heb 8:6-10.

So which group are you interested in ? just the lost??

rnmomof7 · Aug 31, 2015

BobRyan said:
That is how the lost relate to it - and it works for them to lead them to the Gospel.

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68533143, member: 235244"]

To Both it points out what sin is 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law" EVEN for NT saints according to John

But for the lost - they find that they are condemned by it and need a Savior. All the World - and every mouth - condemned Rom 3.

For the Saved they find the Law of God "Written on the mind and heart". Heb 8:6-10.

So which group are you interested in ? just the lost??

You keep reading Hebrews OUT OF CONTEXT ....

Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

THIS IS SPECIFICALLY ...written to Israel ...

There are many lost that think they are saved.... that think they are saved by the law.. not realizing that all the law does is condemn ... The law saves no one..

The saved have the indwelling Holy Spirit to convict them of sin ...

Jesus taught that the law is only a rough outline.. that sin goes much deeper

Adultery can be in the way one looks at a woman... murder can be hate ..

BobRyan · Aug 31, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
You keep reading Hebrews OUT OF CONTEXT ....

Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

THIS IS SPECIFICALLY ...written to Israel ...

If your claim is that you are not a New Covenant Christian because the New Covenant is with Israel - I am not opposing you on that point.

But I, like most others on this board, - am under the New Covenant - a New Covenant Christian.

The Law - written on mind and heart - that is the promise for those under the New Covenant.

Rom 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

bbbbbbb · Aug 31, 2015

BobRyan said:
If your claim is that you are not a New Covenant Christian because the New Covenant is with Israel - I am not opposing you on that point.

But I, like most others on this board, - am under the New Covenant - a New Covenant Christian.

The Law - written on mind and heart - that is the promise for those under the New Covenant.

Rom 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

So, in all honesty, do you believe that when a person is born again he immediately understands the Law and begins to practice it? That is, the 613 commandments given by God to Israel through Moses.

Sophrosyne · Aug 31, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
So, in all honesty, do you believe that when a person is born again he immediately understands the Law and begins to practice it? That is, the 613 commandments given by God to Israel through Moses.

Make it easier for them, just ask them how someone born again knows how or desires to (in their heart, or via the Holy Spirit) keep the Sabbath Law.

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
So, in all honesty, do you believe that when a person is born again he immediately understands the Law and begins to practice it? That is, the 613 commandments given by God to Israel through Moses.

The 1050 commands given in the New Testament then are to be "ignored" because... it is.... "too many for God to have"????
http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5.
"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:5

Do you really think that someone becomes born again without the Gospels? No reading of John 14??

In John 14 Jesus said "I AM the way the TRUTH and the Life"
In 2Thess 2 Paul says that without the "LOVE of the TRUTH" people perish.
In John 17 "Sanctify them Thy TRUTH - Thy WORD is Truth"

Is Bible "avoidance" then going to be the "sign" of the new birth??

God's LAW has not ended -- according to the Bible

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