Sleepy Church

Lukamu said:

I've been at the same church for two decades and it has changed alot, but it is still my "home". In the last five years, attendance has dwindled but the people who remain are like a strong, dedicated family. Each Sunday, they come with their families and endure the music and the preaching. I say "endure" because they don't engage in the music or the message. Perhaps the music is too new and the message is too detailed. Nothing preached or sung is anti-biblical by any means. When I look around, it seems like everyone's eyes have glazed over. We all feel like a family and miss someone if they decide to attend another church, but is there anyone else who goes to a church like this, or went to a church like this, or has any ideas about what to do in this type of situation?

Thanks,
- Lukamu

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I've been to dull churches. Don't feel bad about leaving if you want to. Not every church, when there are millions in America, has to succeed. But it seems more like you want to draw people back. In that case, consider getting a new pastor who has less of a monotone voice. The ability of the pastor to engage and keep his audience awake is very important.

grandvizier1006 said:

I've been to dull churches. Don't feel bad about leaving if you want to. Not every church, when there are millions in America, has to succeed. But it seems more like you want to draw people back. In that case, consider getting a new pastor who has less of a monotone voice. The ability of the pastor to engage and keep his audience awake is very important.

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Or not depend on a fixed pastor, and find a place where the "priesthood" of all believers is practiced with a variety of Godly contributions allowed by several pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc.; and Bible-only is the study subject and function for the gathering.

1watchman said:

Or not depend on a fixed pastor, and find a place where the "priesthood" of all believers is practiced with a variety of Godly contributions allowed by several pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc.; and Bible-only is the study subject and function for the gathering.

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I like that, but I know of no such church that does this.

Lukamu said:

I've been at the same church for two decades and it has changed alot, but it is still my "home". In the last five years, attendance has dwindled but the people who remain are like a strong, dedicated family. Each Sunday, they come with their families and endure the music and the preaching. I say "endure" because they don't engage in the music or the message. Perhaps the music is too new and the message is too detailed. Nothing preached or sung is anti-biblical by any means. When I look around, it seems like everyone's eyes have glazed over. We all feel like a family and miss someone if they decide to attend another church, but is there anyone else who goes to a church like this, or went to a church like this, or has any ideas about what to do in this type of situation?

Thanks,
- Lukamu

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*Are you /and or others praying about this matter?
Have you /or any others tried to talk with the
minister or the church leaders about this matter?

I believe we should attend where Yahweh wants us. Prayer is certainly recourse. Is there worship - not referring to singing?

grandvizier1006 said:

I've been to dull churches. Don't feel bad about leaving if you want to. Not every church, when there are millions in America, has to succeed. But it seems more like you want to draw people back. In that case, consider getting a new pastor who has less of a monotone voice. The ability of the pastor to engage and keep his audience awake is very important.

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Looks like I'm thinking along similar lines. If the situation is as described...if there is such a widespread sense of staleness, then it may indeed be time for the congregation to present the problem to the pastor, preferably in a congregational meeting, and ask for modifications. Tactfully, of course.

I don't think doing that necessarily means booting the pastor from his pulpit, but it looks like there is room for improvement in a number of areas, and the pastor may well turn out to be receptive to many or most of the suggestions. If he isn't, then it'll be harder, but the OP is right that the direction of the congregation at present is towards a steadily declining membership.

Most churches I know of can benefit greatly by hooking into the advice offered by Outreach Magazine. I'm on their email list and would recommend your church join it, too, and consider what they have to say.

The web site is full of resources.

http://www.outreachmagazine.com/

No affiliation.

You say you been going to church for over two decades.
It sounds like an established church, the one i go to has been there 60 years now and the original members are nearing the end and being called Home.
So lots of elders in the congregation. The reason why it may be sleepy is literally, they are elderly and some are going deaf. This does not mean they love the Lord any less, its just they do not have the same energy they had in their youth.

If it is a concern though I would pray about and ask God to send more of his Holy Spirit to refresh the saints.

Lukamu said:

I've been at the same church for two decades and it has changed alot, but it is still my "home". In the last five years, attendance has dwindled but the people who remain are like a strong, dedicated family. Each Sunday, they come with their families and endure the music and the preaching. I say "endure" because they don't engage in the music or the message. Perhaps the music is too new and the message is too detailed. Nothing preached or sung is anti-biblical by any means. When I look around, it seems like everyone's eyes have glazed over. We all feel like a family and miss someone if they decide to attend another church, but is there anyone else who goes to a church like this, or went to a church like this, or has any ideas about what to do in this type of situation?

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It's...funny - and not in a good way - that so many assume that if a congregation is dwindling and the people are apathetic that it is the fault of the pastor. NOT SO. The Church is not one man. It is a Body of Believers, all of whom God has gifted spiritually that they might benefit and edify the Church. The pastor can be doing his job to the best of his abilities, careful to honor God in all his efforts, and the people he shepherds can still be wayward, and carnal, and distracted. God did not intend that the pastor should be doing it all and that the spiritual health of the Church should depend entirely upon him. This is certainly not how the apostle Paul describes the functioning of the Church in Ephesians 4:11-16, or 1 Corinthians 12.

What is needed is the moving of God's Spirit in the hearts of the congregants, convicting them and motivating them to be the Body of Believers He has called them to be. But the Holy Spirit acts in response to our prayers. If, then, you want to see a change for the better in your church, get on your knees and ask God to move powerfully in your own life and in the lives of your brothers and sisters in Christ who constitute your church. And keep praying until God moves.

Luke 11:5-10
5 And He said to them, "Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, 'Friend, lend me three loaves;
6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him';
7 and he will answer from within and say, 'Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you'?
8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Selah.

That a congregation dwindles or stagnates is not an indication that the pastor has failed, that's true. However, he is the 'point man' of the congregation, and much more depends upon his actions (or lack of same) than anyone else. And he is almost always the one individual who has it within his role to be able to turn things around or at least to initiate change that might result in that happening.

I don't see anywhere in Scripture where a presbyter, or bishop, or elder, or pastor is described as a "point man" for the church. And I don't see anywhere stated in Scripture that the spiritual health of a local community of believers depends more upon the pastor than anyone else. God has given a diversity of gifts to His children that He intends should be employed in concert to the edification of the Church. They are all important, all vital, to the effective working of the Body of Believers.

1 Corinthians 12:14-22
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling?
18 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.
19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body.
21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary.

Selah.

aiki said:

I don't see anywhere in Scripture where a presbyter, or bishop, or elder, or pastor is described as a "point man" for the church. And I don't see anywhere stated in Scripture that the spiritual health of a local community of believers depends more upon the pastor than anyone else. God has given a diversity of gifts to His children that He intends should be employed in concert to the edification of the Church. They are all important, all vital, to the effective working of the Body of Believers.

1 Corinthians 12:14-22
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling?
18 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.
19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body.
21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary.

Selah.

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I don't think it's supposed to be hat way in principle, but pastors tend to be the face of their churches and the de facto leaders. Maybe not a good idea, but a new church structure is going to have to become popular to change that.

aiki said:

I don't see anywhere in Scripture where a presbyter, or bishop, or elder, or pastor is described as a "point man" for the church.

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Are we quibbling over my choice of words here...or church polity...or something else? It should be obvious to almost all church-goers that more administrative responsibility falls upon the pastor than upon other members of the congregation, that's all.

Yes, pastors are typically required to be administrators, but if the example of the apostles is anything to go by, this is not actually what they should be doing:

Acts 6:1-4
1 Now in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplying, there arose a complaint against the Hebrews by the Hellenists, because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution.
2 Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables.
3 Therefore, brethren, seek out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business;
4 but we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

Selah.

aiki said:

Yes, pastors are typically required to be administrators, but if the example of the apostles is anything to go by, this is not actually what they should be doing

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"Should be" is not the topic of this discussion. It's about what "is."

What's more, our job here is to give advice concerning the situation the OP inquired about, not to debate our own ideas about church administration, Baptist-style, Catholic-style, or any other.

I remember a beloved Pastor of mine kept a very large sign in the fellowship hall that said:

Nobody can do everything. But everybody can do something.

He put that up because too few people were doing all the work in the church! Maybe these folks are just plain tired by the time they get to the worship service! Service to the Lord is worship too! Many just want to hear the serman, shake the Pastors hand and go to lunch. Could just be something as simple as that.

Albion said:

"Should be" is not the topic of this discussion. It's about what "is."

What's more, our job here is to give advice concerning the situation the OP inquired about, not to debate our own ideas about church administration, Baptist-style, Catholic-style, or any other.

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I was not debating anything until you commented on my post.

Sorry to be blunt, but you don't get to determine what will be the topic of discussion on this thread. I am very persuaded that the problem with the church the OP described is, at least in part, that what is true of his church is not what should be true of it. And since I am free to offer my view in response to the OP as I see fit, I shall continue to urge the OP to consider the biblical blueprint for the proper functioning of his church.

Selah.

aiki said:

Sorry to be blunt, but you don't get to determine what will be the topic of discussion on this thread.

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I agree. Christian Forums does, however.

I was merely reminding you that NO debate is appropriate on this forum and this thread and, also, that I'm not going to be part of it if you want to have one.