"Subordinationism??" they are ontologically equal - but they have agreed to take on roles that show a hierarchy
You seem to be making the point that God the Son was not created and is fully God. I don't dispute that.
JM said:
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Agreed, but would stress the
eternal generation of the Son.
Yours in the Lord,
jm
PS: I believe whole heartly in the Holy Trinity...I even named my daughter Trinity!
I agree with God the Son being from eternity past - and being fully God - however in all of eternity past - prior to creating a spec of matter - did the Father always refer to Him as "Son"?? I would not know about that. It may be that they only use such human-family terms for our benefit.
Your link says this --
"“Biblical Evidence for the Eternal Submission of the Son to the Father”1Wayne Grudem [published in The New Evangelical Subordinationism? edited by Dennis W. Jowers and H. Wayne House (Eugene, OR: Pickwick, 2012), 223-261. ] There is no question that,
during the time of Jesus’ life on earth, he was subject to the authority of God the Father. He said, “'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God” (Heb. 10:7). He also said, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work” (John 4:34). And he said, “I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me” (John 8:28). But some evangelicals today claim this was only a temporary submission to the authority of the Father,
limited to the time of his earthly life or at least to actions connected to the purpose of earning our salvation."
But my statement above was in reference to time before Earth and before any beings in heaven had been created - so then no "salvation" context for some non-God being to observe/benefit from.
so my statement above
"I agree with God the Son being from eternity past - and being fully God - however
in all of eternity past - prior to creating a spec of matter - did the Father always refer to Him as "Son"??
I would not know about that. It may be that they only use such human-family terms for our benefit."
So the salient point is "before creation" of anything ... so then "without reference to saving anything".. a time for which we have no record. Which is why I say it is unknown.
that article directly addresses that issue.
Not in the quote I show from it above. Do you have one?
The son has always been the son begotten in eternity.
You are restating your position. God the Son is from eternity past .. but what was His "role" before creation? Do you have a quote? There is not "begotten in eternity" in the Bible.
The son has eternally been the son to the father,
Another statement for which there is no text.
which is why scripture says the father SENT his son.
God is Love - God does not send (as in force) someone to die that He loves.
Scripture does not say the father asked his son to go. It says the father SENT his son and GAVE his only be gotten son for the Salvation of humanit
We would expect that of the family role they describe themselves in now - but what about before creation?
the father has the ultimate authority to give and SEND the son
But does not indicate that He does so without the consent of the Son or even at the insistence of the Son. In Isaiah 53 it appears that the Son had this as His plan.
who obediently submits to the same authority and obeys.
Which would be true in either case.