Sex Ed: Ethics and Effect

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Ana the Ist

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True. But I think we have to try. Just like some teens are always going to choose to have sex before marriage--sometimes repeatedly-- but I think we have to try to tell teens about the consequences of this.

Don't we?

What teen doesn't know that stds, pregnancy, and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] are all possible consequences of pre marital sex?
 
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patricius79

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I believe that is true. However, boys seek love, affection too, from the opposite sex, unless they're gay. And hetero males realize that if a girl or girls are screwing other boys and not him, that said girl(s) neither respect nor love him. Pretty simple.

Yes, boys can get very hurt in relationships also--all the more so if the relationship involves sex. Even Time Magazine ran an article about that sometime ago, about how the hookup culture is also breaking the hearts of young men.
 
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patricius79

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Don't we?

What teen doesn't know that stds, pregnancy, and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] are all possible consequences of pre marital sex?

Well, I think there is knowing and then there is knowing. Sometimes we know something vaguely but it hasn't hit home, emotionally/intuitively.

Surely you're not saying that we shouldn't teach kids about the possibility of getting STDs or getting pregnant, are you?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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One of my favorite authors, Mary Rosera Joyce, talks about how girls will give sex in order to get love. And that boys will give words of love (not actual love) in order to get sex.

Best point yet. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Ana the Ist

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I believe that is true. However, boys seek love, affection too, from the opposite sex, unless they're gay. And hetero males realize that if a girl or girls are screwing other boys and not him, that said girl(s) neither respect nor love him. Pretty simple.

No, I don't care if it is normal for girls to cry over rock stars and run to their aid if they their big toes. No more than I'm sure most women care that it's normal for men to fall over each other to lay their coat over a puddle for beautiful alpha females like Halle Berry.

In the end the American assault rifle, semi-auto pistols, and male serial killers bring justice and reconciliation to the prevailing American delusion. It never ceases to amaze me how many American women think a little puppy needs more love and affection than a little boy.

Contrary to all this schizo nonsense where Americans can't decide if American girls are Hillary Clinton's, tough CEO's, or Army Rangers, or instead weak, fragile damsels in distress looking for a peck on the cheek from any and all males. The reality is few American females are that desperate. They are backed by the cult of welfare, abortion, and new views on female promiscuity being pretty darn cool. More than a few of them have the nature of a girl that will join alpha males in hacking some vulnerable boy to death, burying him in a shallow grave, and having sex besides that grave as he breathes his last breaths.

There are always people who's views of other people are simple. That's because it's easier to deal with a stereotype than an actual complicated person.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Well, I think there is knowing and then there is knowing. Sometimes we know something vaguely but it hasn't hit home, emotionally/intuitively.

Surely you're not saying that we shouldn't teach kids about the possibility of getting STDs or getting pregnant, are you?


....

No...I'm not saying that.
 
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SuperCloud

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Yes, boys can get very hurt in relationships also--all the more so if the relationship involves sex. Even Time Magazine ran an article about that sometime ago, about how the hookup culture is also breaking the hearts of young men.

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the absence of romantic relationships. Total rejection.

Since the dawn of time such males have bent over backwards for females hoping to receive some affection. Often the females just use them or treat them like an object to pity, patronize, or a pet to pat on the head.

But the difference is people are autistic towards those males because they think males are somehow biological determined through their genome to either be "outgoing" and courageous et cetera, or simply "losers." On the other hand the same people think there is some complex web of family nurturing, community involvement, schools, training, a whole damn nation needed to be mobilized to turn out just one, single girl, into a confident girl. And this contradictory conception they some how call "equality."

I'm a tell you what a female social worker told me. It is unacceptable in society for boys or men to cry. It's not for girls. The only acceptable emotion for males is rage and and anger to express hurt. And the #1 indicator for depression according to her is rage and anger. So, America in my view, gets what it deserves in mass shootings, gun violence, and the plenitude of male serial killers stalking its communities.
 
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beaverpond

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We have been teaching our teens the proper ways to treat each other in a relationship, what is acceptable and what is not. We are human beings that are not to be treated like garbage that is not to be used and tossed to the curb waiting for the next person to come along that seems better.

Young ladies are to be treated with respect and not fondled over like some car or truck that a guy falls in love with while shopping for the next vehicle. Young men are to be treated with the same respect and paid attention to and no ignored ... don't expect them to go shopping with you and expect them to enjoy it. No guy wants to shop through the womens section in a store with his young lady. He has no taste in fashion of dresses or womens clothing.

We have no problem with our teens dating somebody for a date or two and realizing that this person is not for them down the road. If they want to be friends after that, that is up to them. We help them establish ground rules and guidelines so both people realize what is acceptable and what is not. If one crosses the line, then expect the relationship to end.
 
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Cearbhall

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I would ask people to be respectful, civil, and to ask out-of-the-box questions about this complex issue, rather than only repeating what the media reports.
I'm curious, what media reports are you thinking of, and how do you believe they differ from what studies say?
 
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paulm50

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What do you think should be taught in the schools as to sex ed?
With the ease boys can access inappropriate content, there has to be emphasis on what's in inappropriate content. Isn't real. This is also effecting girls with the pop videos online. So I would put that in the agenda.

1. How the body functions sexually. Children are being confused be a prudish element, when their bodies are telling them something else.
2. How to pleasure themselves and their partner.
3. Contraception.
4. STDs.
5. Reproduction.
6. Sex, conception, birth aren't a sin.

The tide's in and and it's not turning around. The prudish can adopt a King Canute position and drown.

I'm the Father of a 13 year old girl and a 38 year old girl and 65. I have three windows to compare, and form an opinion. We can't bring up children like it's the 19th Century and most certainly not impose rules from the First. Many written by single lonely men.

The bible is clearly anti women and anti the only way we ensure survival of the Human Race. If a god created animals to live, sexually, the way the scribes describe for us, he would of. He most certainly didn't. So either god was wrong, or the scribes are.
 
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paulm50

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We have been teaching our teens the proper ways to treat each other in a relationship, what is acceptable and what is not. We are human beings that are not to be treated like garbage that is not to be used and tossed to the curb waiting for the next person to come along that seems better.

Young ladies are to be treated with respect and not fondled over like some car or truck that a guy falls in love with while shopping for the next vehicle. Young men are to be treated with the same respect and paid attention to and no ignored ... don't expect them to go shopping with you and expect them to enjoy it. No guy wants to shop through the womens section in a store with his young lady. He has no taste in fashion of dresses or womens clothing.

We have no problem with our teens dating somebody for a date or two and realizing that this person is not for them down the road. If they want to be friends after that, that is up to them. We help them establish ground rules and guidelines so both people realize what is acceptable and what is not. If one crosses the line, then expect the relationship to end.
Agreed.

The problem is what is the "proper ways"? I find it very acceptable that my daughter will have many lovers, and her boyfriends will also have many. So I impress on her the need for protection from pregnancy and disease.

No guy may want to shop for Women's clothes, I know a woman who loves me to come with her shopping for clothes. I just nod. LOL
 
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quatona

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To me that is like saying: if it could be proven that wrong is right, would you accept that wrong is right?
Exactly: It´s all about your preconceived moral stances on sex.
The "real life consequence" arguments are just post-hoc rationalisations and actually a smoke-screen.
 
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Dave-W

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beaverpond

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See one of the things we impress on our young people is to save themselves for marriage just as God commands...no sex before marriage, guys or gals as it is something to be enjoyed after marriage vows have been exchanged. Is it getting harder to find people like this, sure...but not impossible. As long as we keep teaching them what God expects there will always be somebody for them to be with by God's standards and by His choosing for them.

It can and does still happen. I dated several people as did my wife, we both knew what we wanted and knew what we would not be willing to sacrifice in another person. We were in on our mid 20s when we met. But when God is in the relationship things can move pretty fast. We were engaged two months later and married eight months after that. No sex was had until after marriage, it would have gone against everything we believe and everything we upheld for so long.

Now we spread the word.
 
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KCfromNC

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To me that is like saying: if it could be proven that wrong is right, would you accept that wrong is right?

No, it is more like asking are you open to the possibility that you might be wrong. Your interpretation is pretty telling, though. It implies you have the correct answer and are simply interested in working backwards to find reasons to keep believing you're correct.

As far as I can tell, in the context of the post-sexual-revolution culture--where eroticism is so prevalent--comprehensive sex ed does correlate with reduction in teen pregnancy and teen stds.

Some would say that proves that it is morally acceptable to teach comprehensive sex ed, which teaches about sexual options--such as contracepted fornication-- and does not condemn sexual immorality as such.

I don't see this.

Obviously. The interesting question here is why you won't accept the facts in this situation.
 
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patricius79

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I'm curious, what media reports are you thinking of, and how do you believe they differ from what studies say?

I think the media generally has a morally-relativistic agenda, especially as to sex, and that they aren't likely to think deeply about sex ed.

I think it may well be true that comprehensive sex ed reduces STDs and teen pregnancies--and that abstinence-only sex ed (as opposed to actual abstinence) does not.

(Though it is confusing, because some studies show that kids in abstinence-only programs are as likely to use condoms if they do have sex, and that comprehensive sex ed does not reduce STDs)

But the media seems to condition us to believe that this proves that comprehensive sex ed is somehow better and more scientific and advanced.

Are they, for example, looking honestly at the issue of whether the better abstinence-only programs are reducing teen sexual activity, and how this is impacting them in the long term as far as having more psycho-sexual maturity, being less likely to get addicted to inappropriate contentography, being less likely to have emotional illness, being less likely to divorce, etc?
 
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patricius79

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With the ease boys can access inappropriate content, there has to be emphasis on what's in inappropriate content. Isn't real. This is also effecting girls with the pop videos online. So I would put that in the agenda.

1. How the body functions sexually. Children are being confused be a prudish element, when their bodies are telling them something else.
2. How to pleasure themselves and their partner.
3. Contraception.
4. STDs.
5. Reproduction.
6. Sex, conception, birth aren't a sin.

.

What if we taught all the things you mention here except number 2 and number 6, and instead taught that fornication and contraception are wrong, and explained why, and all the benefits of becoming psycho-sexually mature through abstinence (receiving sexual feelings as good energy for inner development and reflection)?
 
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patricius79

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See one of the things we impress on our young people is to save themselves for marriage just as God commands...no sex before marriage, guys or gals as it is something to be enjoyed after marriage vows have been exchanged. Is it getting harder to find people like this, sure...but not impossible. As long as we keep teaching them what God expects there will always be somebody for them to be with by God's standards and by His choosing for them.

It can and does still happen. I dated several people as did my wife, we both knew what we wanted and knew what we would not be willing to sacrifice in another person. We were in on our mid 20s when we met. But when God is in the relationship things can move pretty fast. We were engaged two months later and married eight months after that. No sex was had until after marriage, it would have gone against everything we believe and everything we upheld for so long.

Now we spread the word.

Do you think that couples who wait until marriage to sex, and generally refrain from masturbation or other impurity (more-or-less), tend to have higher levels of maturity and happiness later on?
 
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patricius79

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Exactly: It´s all about your preconceived moral stances on sex.
The "real life consequence" arguments are just post-hoc rationalisations and actually a smoke-screen.

What do you think should be taught in sex ed?

As to you claim, I can see why someone would think that, if they start from a certain set of assumptions.
 
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patricius79

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No, it is more like asking are you open to the possibility that you might be wrong. Your interpretation is pretty telling, though. It implies you have the correct answer and are simply interested in working backwards to find reasons to keep believing you're correct.



Obviously. The interesting question here is why you won't accept the facts in this situation.

Why does the reduction of stds and teen pregnancy prove--in themselves--that comprehensive sex ed is the correct way to teach sex ed?

Also, is the relation of stds and teen pregnancy to comprehensive sex ed a correlation or a causation?

And how strong is the relation?
 
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