Why is Messianic Judaism considered Judaism if they believe in Jesus?

yesyoushould said:

Can you honestly say you keep every law? I can.

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I can then ask you if you perform the work of a levite, if a man, the tasks of a woman... and you will have to admit that not every law applies to you.

so this thread still exists

visionary said:

I can then ask you if you perform the work of a levite, if a man, the tasks of a woman... and you will have to admit that not every law applies to you.

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That is comforting. Thank you. I suppose I'm just enquiring about every law for me. Such as every law for you. Do you think it is possible to keep every law? I happen to think so.

I think it is good to believe in the verse that says "be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Surely it is true that we can be perfect.

Isn't it important?

It truly is amazing how much God loves all of us, without respect of persons.

yesyoushould said:

I think it is good to believe in the verse that says "be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Surely it is true that we can be perfect.

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When a infant crawls it is perfect, when they learn to stand on their own two feet, it is perfect... so it is in spiritual life...The perfect for you or I is the best at where we are.. in perfect obedience to His voice. Sometimes we care called to do or say something that is not us but Him. If we obey even if it is outside our comfort zone as He asks. It is perfect. You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you. It is that centeredness in Him that gives you the perfect peace, that passes all understanding. God can trust you to do as He requires.

yesyoushould said:

I think it is good to believe in the verse that says "be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Surely it is true that we can be perfect.

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I think you will enjoy this thread on perfect. http://www.christianforums.com/threads/perfect.7811782/

Messianic Jews r Jews who believe jesus is the messiah. A Jew is ethnic just like an Italian or irish

sahjimira said:

Messianic Jews r Jews who believe jesus is the messiah. A Jew is ethnic just like an Italian or irish

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Why are so many surprised at the Jew believing in the Holy One of Israel, the Jewish Messiah

Superhero Sam said:

I dont understand why Messianic Jews are considered Jews if they believe in the New Testament and follow Jesus. Im not arguing that theyre not Jews, Im just asking why are they considered Jews if they practice Christianity.

My uncle and sister have both said it doesnt make sense that you could practice two religions (Judaism and Christianity) at the same time. While Im open minded about this topic and dont deny that Messianic Jews and Christians, Im asking-what makes them Jewish if theyre Christian?

This is a very confusing subject.

I assume many Messianic Jews are ethnic Jews who converted to Christianity. Jewish is an ethno religious group, and you can be a Jew without practicing Judaism. There are atheist and agnostic Jews, for example. Therefore, the idea that a Jewish person can be a Christian makes sense, but it gets more complicated.

There are Messianic Jews who arent even ethnically Jewish. Im Italian, and I have some Messianic Jews in my family. Ive read that many Messianic Christians arent ethnic Jews either.

So what makes those Christians Jewish, if they arent Jewish by ethnicity? By religion, they believe in Jesus, and while I guess some Jewish sects view Jesus as a good man or even a prophet, overall-Jewish theology views Christ as one of the many false messiahs.

There are some people who ethnically have no connection to Hebrews like the Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews have (those 2 groups are related to Hebrews), and some Jewish converts come from a variety of races and ethnicities (Beta Israel Ethiopian Jews, Indian and Iranian Jews, Chinese and Japanese Jews).

But those Jewish groups, despite converting to the religion, practice Judaism and arent considered Christians. What makes people who have converted to Messianic Judaism (a Christian sect) Jews, if they arent Jewish ethnically, and they do believe in Christianity's belief in Jesus?

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we have this kind of discussion on native american lists all the time.. very sad, hilarious how it is the same arguments. Seems you are leaving culture and traditions and nation and shared history out of your equation as Jews who might not be jews/judah by blood/clan are by history and traditions and family . because a clan isn't all your inheritance from all your ancestors is it ? family and adoption it is a foundational concept and important parts in all tribal and ancient traditions since Noah . but the Clan isn't the only thing important , family is, family is about sharing a history and the adopted is family also . but adoption isn't clan that others can see.
sometimes that adopted family grows up and grows faster to even exclude even it own roots, it clans, it's values and real traditions.

so God always makes it so there is and was always room for the Ruths or a Uriah , God demanded it didn't he ? men are the ones who started drawing lines , measuring and coming up with words like
"blood quantums" and wannabes , apples, Oreo , to the goofiness of ignorant dna theories which have everything screwed up and in total confusion , but that list goes on and so many ways men make it complicated in order to exclude, just anyway to exclude and control . when the whole theory of clan authority was so that the real clan was in power to be inclusive as it was their ancient traditions.

Have you ever noticed how you move to a pristine place and as soon as you get there everyone that gets there after you wants to blow up the bridges so no one else can come to that beautiful place? so that no one else can have a piece of land there . my hubby always asked these folks
"when do suggest we cut off immigration to this area ? maybe the day just before you got here ?"
When they need it the real thing and all true values and truly ancient traditions will have protection from God and only that matters !


Num 1:38

¶
Of the children H1121 of Dan, H1835 by their generations, H8435 after their families, H4940 by the house H1004 of their fathers, H1 according to the number H4557 of the names, H8034 from twenty H6242 years H8141 old H1121 and upward, H4605 all that were able to go forth H3318to war; H6635
Num 1:39

Those that were numbered H6485 of them, even of the tribe H4294 of Dan, H1835 were threescore H8346 and two H8147 thousand H505and seven H7651 hundred. H3967

God is into sharing nations and cultures .
just not the sinful parts.

yesyoushould said:

I think it is good to believe in the verse that says "be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Surely it is true that we can be perfect.

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If this concept of living perfectly in God was restricted solely to our Lord, then He could never have said, "The disciple is not above his Master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his Master" (Luke 6:40)

.The concept of one's living free of sin and being perfect in this life is not only difficult for a modern so-called follower of Christ to believe or accept, but it is also incomprehensible. In fact, it is ridiculous to every one who has not experienced the New Birth. Nevertheless, the Word of God stands true and unchangeable. We read in the Book of Hebrews (10:14, 15) that "by one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. Whereof, the Holy Ghost is a witness to us."

Peter verified this when he wrote these words of consolation

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, Who hath called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.


"Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ," says the writer of the Book of Hebrews, "let us go on unto perfection" (Heb. 6:1).

It was Paul who said,

Eph 4:4-6 "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things. And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith"

Eph 4:10 "and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Here is a Revelation for you doubters that God can not make man perfect like He is before He returns....

"Which," as Paul emphatically declared, "hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to His saints: to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus" (Col. 1:26-28).

"I dont understand why Messianic Jews are considered Jews if they believe in the New Testament and follow Jesus. Im not arguing that theyre not Jews, Im just asking why are they considered Jews if they practice Christianity."

The very opening of the OP is a contradiction....
You're asking "why they are considered Jews", but you're not arguing that they're not Jews.
I mean, you might as well ask yourself. You are not arguing that they are not Jews. So apparently you yourself hold the answer as to why they are considered Jews, seeing as you apparently consider them Jews.
So it is like you are asking us to read your mind for you.

visionary said:

When a infant crawls it is perfect, when they learn to stand on their own two feet, it is perfect... so it is in spiritual life...The perfect for you or I is the best at where we are.. in perfect obedience to His voice. Sometimes we care called to do or say something that is not us but Him. If we obey even if it is outside our comfort zone as He asks. It is perfect. You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you. It is that centeredness in Him that gives you the perfect peace, that passes all understanding. God can trust you to do as He requires.

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God is the perfect already.

yesyoushould said:

God is the perfect already.

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Chicken Little said:

we have this kind of discussion on native american lists all the time.. very sad, hilarious how it is the same arguments. Seems you are leaving culture and traditions and nation and shared history out of your equation as Jews who might not be jews/judah by blood/clan are by history and traditions and family . because a clan isn't all your inheritance from all your ancestors is it ? family and adoption it is a foundational concept and important parts in all tribal and ancient traditions since Noah . but the Clan isn't the only thing important , family is, family is about sharing a history and the adopted is family also . but adoption isn't clan that others can see.
sometimes that adopted family grows up and grows faster to even exclude even it own roots, it clans, it's values and real traditions.

so God always makes it so there is and was always room for the Ruths or a Uriah , God demanded it didn't he ? men are the ones who started drawing lines , measuring and coming up with words like
"blood quantums" and wannabes , apples, Oreo , to the goofiness of ignorant dna theories which have everything screwed up and in total confusion , but that list goes on and so many ways men make it complicated in order to exclude, just anyway to exclude and control . when the whole theory of clan authority was so that the real clan was in power to be inclusive as it was their ancient traditions.

Have you ever noticed how you move to a pristine place and as soon as you get there everyone that gets there after you wants to blow up the bridges so no one else can come to that beautiful place? so that no one else can have a piece of land there . my hubby always asked these folks
"when do suggest we cut off immigration to this area ? maybe the day just before you got here ?"
When they need it the real thing and all true values and truly ancient traditions will have protection from God and only that matters !


Num 1:38

¶
Of the children H1121 of Dan, H1835 by their generations, H8435 after their families, H4940 by the house H1004 of their fathers, H1 according to the number H4557 of the names, H8034 from twenty H6242 years H8141 old H1121 and upward, H4605 all that were able to go forth H3318to war; H6635
Num 1:39

Those that were numbered H6485 of them, even of the tribe H4294 of Dan, H1835 were threescore H8346 and two H8147 thousand H505and seven H7651 hundred. H3967

God is into sharing nations and cultures .
just not the sinful parts.

Click to expand...

I Love the part about the flock.

Genesis 30King James Version (KJV)
30 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.

2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

3 And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.

4 And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.

5 And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.

6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

7 And Bilhah Rachel's maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son.

8 And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.

9 When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife.

10 And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son.

11 And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.

12 And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a second son.

13 And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.

14 And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes.

15 And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest thou take away my son's mandrakes also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son's mandrakes.

16 And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes. And he lay with her that night.

17 And God hearkened unto Leah, and she conceived, and bare Jacob the fifth son.

18 And Leah said, God hath given me my hire, because I have given my maiden to my husband: and she called his name Issachar.

19 And Leah conceived again, and bare Jacob the sixth son.

20 And Leah said, God hath endued me with a good dowry; now will my husband dwell with me, because I have born him six sons: and she called his name Zebulun.

21 And afterwards she bare a daughter, and called her name Dinah.

22 And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb.

23 And she conceived, and bare a son; and said, God hath taken away my reproach:

24 And she called his name Joseph; and said, The Lord shall add to me another son.

25 And it came to pass, when Rachel had born Joseph, that Jacob said unto Laban, Send me away, that I may go unto mine own place, and to my country.

26 Give me my wives and my children, for whom I have served thee, and let me go: for thou knowest my service which I have done thee.

27 And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the Lord hath blessed me for thy sake.

28 And he said, Appoint me thy wages, and I will give it.

29 And he said unto him, Thou knowest how I have served thee, and how thy cattle was with me.

30 For it was little which thou hadst before I came, and it is now increased unto a multitude; and the Lord hath blessed thee since my coming: and now when shall I provide for mine own house also?

31 And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock.

32 I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.

33 So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come, when it shall come for my hire before thy face: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the sheep, that shall be counted stolen with me.

34 And Laban said, Behold, I would it might be according to thy word.

35 And he removed that day the he goats that were ringstraked and spotted, and all the she goats that were speckled and spotted, and every one that had some white in it, and all the brown among the sheep, and gave them into the hand of his sons.

36 And he set three days' journey betwixt himself and Jacob: and Jacob fed the rest of Laban's flocks.

37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.

38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.

39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

40 And Jacob did separate the lambs, and set the faces of the flocks toward the ringstraked, and all the brown in the flock of Laban; and he put his own flocks by themselves, and put them not unto Laban's cattle.

41 And it came to pass, whensoever the stronger cattle did conceive, that Jacob laid the rods before the eyes of the cattle in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods.

42 But when the cattle were feeble, he put them not in: so the feebler were Laban's, and the stronger Jacob's.

43 And the man increased exceedingly, and had much cattle, and maidservants, and menservants, and camels, and asses.

Jews are Jews, and Irish are Irish, etc etc etc... Faith on the other hand transcends bloodlines and is taken in faith. .. so you can have Jews believing in any religious faith they want.. they are still Jews... Those who believe Yeshua is their Messiah do not have to leave Judaism to accept Him as their Messiah. In fact, all who come to Yeshua should understand that He is the King of the Jews, the Holy one of Israel, the creator of Judaism as Moses laid out.

visionary said:

Jews are Jews, and Irish are Irish, etc etc etc... Faith on the other hand transcends bloodlines and is taken in faith. .. so you can have Jews believing in any religious faith they want.. they are still Jews... Those who believe Yeshua is their Messiah do not have to leave Judaism to accept Him as their Messiah. In fact, all who come to Yeshua should understand that He is the King of the Jews, the Holy one of Israel, the creator of Judaism as Moses laid out.

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God made all, all that is seen and unseen. All that belong to God accept all that God has given, and reject none. To leave in the dark even one other soul, is hatred for that poor soul. God is for all, because God made all. God will protect God(truth), therefore we have no fear, because truth is freedom for all.

We know, that whoever lies, isn't of God, for God is the Truth.

yesyoushould said:

We know, that whoever lies, isn't of God, for God is the Truth.

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That pretty much eliminates all of us, doesn't it?

pat34lee said:

That pretty much eliminates all of us, doesn't it?

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No, not if taken in the proper context.