Does God love you?

Johnlove1

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It's not derailing the thread just because people disagree with you using scripture.
(especially when it is a direct response to your posts)
Which is a works-related issue. There's no getting around it.

(1 John 4:10) "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that
He loved us
, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our
sins."

(Ephesians 2:8-9) "For it is by grace you have been saved,
through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of
God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

(1 John 4:19) "We love because He first loved us."

(Romans 5:8) "But God demonstrates His own love for us in
this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

(Matthew 5:46-48) "If you love only those who love you, what
reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

And if you greet only your brothers,what more are you doing
than the others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect
therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


-
(1 John 4:10) "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that
He loved us
, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our
sins."

Let us take John’s letter just little farther.

(1 John 4:12-13) “No one has ever seen God;'

but as long as we love one another God will live in us

and his love will be complete in us. We can know that we are living in him and he is living in us”

John said God’s love will be complete in us when he lives in us.


Jesus told us what we need to do for him to live in us. Notice it is us doing. That is work that Jesus told us to do.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Let us take John’s letter just little farther.

(1 John 4:12-13) “No one has ever seen God;'

but as long as we love one another God will live in us

and his love will be complete in us. We can know that we are living in him and he is living in us”

John said God’s love will be complete in us when he lives in us.


Jesus told us what we need to do for him to live in us. Notice it is us doing. That is work that Jesus told us to do.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

Oh this is about the Armin free will teaching . I disagree with both calvin and armin by virtue of the theologies being too much about us and not enough about Jesus
 
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Johnlove1

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(Ephesians 2:8-9) "For it is by grace you have been saved,
through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of
God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
Again let us see a little more of the scripture you quoted.

(Ephesians 2:4-8) “But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Notice again Jesus came when they were in their transgressions. And it was by grace he saved them then. They did nothing to earn that kindness.

It does not say anything about future works.

That is because a Spiritual Christian knows it is God’s Work in and through us that makes it so one can stay righteous.
 
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Johnlove1

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(1 John 4:19) "We love because He first loved us."
Yes Jesus first loved us, but then he told us what we were to do. Jesus gave us Commandments, and expected us to obey him.


(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Jesus even tells us that those who don’t live his Commandments he has never known them. He will not even admit of ever knowing them.
 
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Johnlove1

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(Romans 5:8) "But God demonstrates His own love for us in
this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Yes read that it says Jesus loved them what they were still sinners. Paul was telling us that they were no longer sinners.

It does not say Jesus loves those who after being cleansed and continue to sin are loved.

(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira found that out.
 
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Johnlove1

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(Matthew 5:46-48) "If you love only those who love you, what
reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

And if you greet only your brothers,what more are you doing
than the others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect
therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
That is right we are to love our brothers. But Jesus was not saying he would love those who disobeyed him.

We are to forgive our brothers, but our brothers are no Gods, nor did they come down from heaven and die so our sins could be forgiven. Not our future sins. Jesus never said our future sins would be forgiven.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. -----------“
 
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Johnlove1

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Oh this is about the Armin free will teaching . I disagree with both calvin and armin by virtue of the theologies being too much about us and not enough about Jesus
Mike, my not wanting to discuss the not work, but grace theology is, because it is in total disagreement with the following words Jesus said.


This scripture is telling us we have to do, and doing is work.

That is great you should means be guided by what Jesus tells you.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
 
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Rajni

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Nope, my post is right on topic.
If one pushes commandment-keeping,
one will eventually have to deal with
the flaws inherent therein.

That's not a derail, that's a wake-
up call.

-
 
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Johnlove1

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Nope, my post is right on topic.
If one pushes commandment-keeping,
one will eventually have to deal with
the flaws inherent therein.

That's not a derail, that's a wake-
up call.

-
There were no errors in my post, and in answering all of your post you now know that.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Mike, my not wanting to discuss the not work, but grace theology is, because it is in total disagreement with the following words Jesus said.


This scripture is telling us we have to do, and doing is work.

That is great you should means be guided by what Jesus tells you.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

I think the main dispute in this thread is your emphasis that God does not love us when there is a stream of teaching in the bible that says the exact opposite without grasping at straws . which is why this may go beyond the thesis of what general theology operates on. But outside of that box, I would say when presented with two images of God in scriptural interpretation .. think .. how would I want God to judge me? as loving or not loving? as one who says but does not do?

because the same way that I judge God as being in my interpretation .. would he not then judge me?
 
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Rajni

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That is because a Spiritual Christian knows it is God’s Work in and through us that makes it so one can stay righteous.
Yes, I can agree with that. After all:

"He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until
the day of Christ Jesus." (Philippians 1:6)

"For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good
pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

"He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on
the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 1:8)​

Jesus gave us Commandments, and expected us to obey him.
Since, as you say, a Spiritual Christian knows it's God's work in and through us
that makes it so we can stay righteous, then one should be confident that He
will, indeed, continue to do this, and not be so concerned about others not
doing so (or, more precisely, about Him not working through others to do so).
"Keep His commandments or else" should no longer be one's message to the
world.

That is right we are to love our brothers. But Jesus was not saying he would love those who disobeyed him.
I don't believe Jesus follows a lower standard than mere humans do on this
point. He practices what he preaches or else he's being hypocritical.


-
 
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Johnlove1

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I think the main dispute in this thread is your emphasis that God does not love us when there is a stream of teaching in the bible that says the exact opposite without grasping at straws . which is why this may go beyond the thesis of what general theology operates on. But outside of that box, I would say when presented with two images of God in scriptural interpretation .. think .. how would I want God to judge me? as loving or not loving? as one who says but does not do?

because the same way that I judge God as being in my interpretation .. would he not then judge me?
Mike, that may be what you want, but that is not the way it is.


(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Read carefully what Jesus said to these men in the above scripture.


Also read what Jesus said in the following scripture.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”


God’s Word is going to judge those who do not keep his Word faithfully.


I quote the following two scriptures and both are Jesus speaking. Why is it people can still doubt that Jesus means for us to keep his Commandments?


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


Ask yourself Mike, how many people do you know that have seen Jesus?


Why do you think Jesus has not shown himself to most all people?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Mike, that may be what you want, but that is not the way it is.


(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Read carefully what Jesus said to these men in the above scripture.


Also read what Jesus said in the following scripture.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”


God’s Word is going to judge those who do not keep his Word faithfully.


I quote the following two scriptures and both are Jesus speaking. Why is it people can still doubt that Jesus means for us to keep his Commandments?


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


Ask yourself Mike, how many people do you know that have seen Jesus?


Why do you think Jesus has not shown himself to most all people?

Yes, those passages are in scripture, but they do not refute other scripture. therefore, since your thesis is causing scripture to refute itself it is a wrong thesis.
 
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Johnlove1

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Yes, those passages are in scripture, but they do not refute other scripture. therefore, since your thesis is causing scripture to refute itself it is a wrong thesis.
Show me something that can make what Jesus said not meaningful.

I did not need to explain what Jesus said, and how can what he said be wrong?


I did not quote anyone’s idea of what Jesus said.

Just because people have not been teaching what Jesus taught does not make what he said can be refuted.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Show me something that can make what Jesus said not meaningful.

I did not need to explain what Jesus said, and how can what he said be wrong?


I did not quote anyone’s idea of what Jesus said.

Just because people have not been teaching what Jesus taught does not make what he said can be refuted.

When you quote John without using the synoptics as a context, this is an interpretive bias.
 
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Johnlove1

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When you quote John without using the synoptics as a context, this is an interpretive bias.
Do you honestly believe that the other gospels will rebuke what John says?

Jesus has been personally teaching me for forty years, and I know that there is nothing in what Mathew, Mark, or Luke that would rebuke what Jesus said.

Believe me if there way it would have been brought to my attention many years ago.
 
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