was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a war crime?

was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a war crime?

  • yes

    Votes: 13 44.8%
  • no

    Votes: 14 48.3%
  • don't know

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Total voters
    29

aieyiamfu

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Nope. Asking that is like asking if the execution of Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy cruel & unusual punishment.

I do not follow how the execution of two convicted murderers compares with the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents.
 
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com7fy8

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I would say it was a war crime. But I understand that if it had not been done, the Japanese in power would never have negotiated. Ones in power or higher-up could have kept Japan in a national suicidal state, to the death of every Japanese person, I have been told.

But because the emperor agreed to talk Japan out of that, they gave in to their own one who I think was considered to have a godlike status. But, even then, there were certain suicidal Japanese who insisted on going on to the death. Because they had an "honor" thing that if they failed and were not killed, they must kill their own selves, or something like this.

It was kind of like how Adolph had the Germans going. I was told that he demanded that all Germans fight to the death or they did not deserve to exist.

And individuals can be like this > there are ones who even kill their own unborn with whom they could discover and learn real love, killing their own unborn in order to have the lives they dictate that they must have

So, this is what humans of this world are capable of doing; it is not excused, but unless ones trust in Jesus and how He has us loving, I consider that ones are not capable of doing otherwise, if they are in slavery to "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2)

So, then . . . prayer does work, with example of how to love. You can make a difference, no matter how this world does not change for you :)

"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 15:58)

So, if suicidally evil people were in control of Japan and Germany, I consider that the Allies might have had to fight and kill a lot more Japanese than the ones in those two cities, and all the "innocents" who died in the taking of Berlin.

And if the Allies had not put the Japanese military out of business, the Japanese military already had their track record of killing off many Chinese, one time, just because certain Chinese had helped a few downed combatant air pilots. I recall that thousands of Chinese were killed by the Japanese in retaliation, maybe over a hundred thousand???? So, if they had not been stopped, including by the a-bombing, how many more might the empiricist Japanese have killed? . . . likely more than in those two cities, in various countries.

However . . . even so . . . yes, I do find that the a-bombings were a war crime. But those in power can decide how things are enforced . . . like how for some while the Japanese were in power to enforce their way of doing things and not answering to anybody else. And "Americans", for some while could do as they pleased to peoples in the West, taking their lands, slaughtering mothers and babies of villages, in order to seize lands of sovereign peoples in the West.

Also . . . when people feel they must choose between their own family people being killed and someone else's family people dying, "often enough" this world's people choose for people of their own families to stay alive - - though the ones of other families might be innocent.

For another example, right in a Christian forum, I made an issue about a mother paying ransom money to terrorists, in order to get her boy back. Well, that money could be used to get weapons and explosives to kill a number of sons of other mothers, but "Excuse me," I am going to get my boy back.

So, war crime or not, this can be how people of this world operate and have their priorities under Satan's dictatorship of "fear of death" > you might consider Hebrews 2:14-15.
 
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JackRT

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As a student of military history, I am of two minds about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I am appalled at the terrible loss of life both at the time and since then due to radiation effects. The total I believe may be several hundred thousand.


On the other hand the invasion of the Japanese main islands was scheduled for the spring of 1946. Military planners were already well aware that the Japanese defense would be desperate and deadly. The official Japanese slogan of the day was "90 million die together”. The Allied planners were preparing for 6 million casualties in the invasion. It was estimated that 2 million of those would be deaths.


It must have been a heart wrenching decision for Truman to have to make. Remember that he had available only those two bombs. Another six would be available in 1946. He may very well have made the right decision based on the lesser of two evils proposition.


What Truman did not know, and is still little known today, is that the Japanese nuclear program was well advanced and was not years behind but only a few weeks behind. Their main research and development facility was located in what is now North Korea at Project Z. There is evidence that the Japanese actually conducted a successful nuclear test in the Sea of Japan off the coast of North Korea on the day before the Emperor intervened and forced the Japanese surrender.


Interestingly enough, Project Z fell into the hands of the Russian occupiers of North Korea and Russia was a nuclear power within a few short years.
 
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com7fy8

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What Truman did not know, and is still little known today, is that the Japanese nuclear program was well advanced and was not years behind but only a few weeks behind.
This can demonstrate how God is in overall control, with His timing, so that evil people can't just keep on doing whatsoever they please . . . like they would.

The Bible says,

"God resists the proud" (in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5).

When one nation of pride rises up more than others, God "might" use other nations to put that nation more in its place.

I do not find that any of the warring groups now is really right, but they are possibly being used to resist each other, so none gets "too" powerful.

In early scripture military history, I think we can see how effective and swift and efficient the Jews were, any time their military mission was of God. But now we see in history how numerous wars have been so sloppy and drawn-out . . . "maybe" because everyone involved has been wrong, somehow. But the warring can work in mysterious ways to slow down countries and groups so they do not go as far as they would in their own pride.

But, Jack, it seems Canada used different methods more humble, if I remember right. Didn't they just ask England for independence?? And I think I read that Australia did this, too. This could show a better way than using bombs, and that it is possible. But people's character can be a certain way so there are only certain ways they can see things, and then things happen to justify what they want to believe. Their own character . . . our own character . . . with our set ways of seeing things > this can be our "magnet" to attract how things go for us, in the spiritual power of whichever kingdom our character has us functioning in.

In the character of God's own love, we keep discovering how God works things out for our good, plus the good of others > like how things worked for Joseph > Genesis 37-50. He did not use killing, though he could have. Joseph went with family relating and caring; and in trusting God all-loving, Joseph's activities got an all-loving result, not only getting him himself out of his troubles. And the obedience of Abraham has gotten "all the nations of the earth" "blessed" (Genesis 22:18), because he obeyed our Father who is all-loving with all-loving results of what He has us doing.

So, there is a lot of stuff going on which is at war against how God would have us loving. And the devastation of this is much worse than just dying.
 
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bhsmte

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As a student of military history, I am of two minds about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I am appalled at the terrible loss of life both at the time and since then due to radiation effects. The total I believe may be several hundred thousand.


On the other hand the invasion of the Japanese main islands was scheduled for the spring of 1946. Military planners were already well aware that the Japanese defense would be desperate and deadly. The official Japanese slogan of the day was "90 million die together”. The Allied planners were preparing for 6 million casualties in the invasion. It was estimated that 2 million of those would be deaths.


It must have been a heart wrenching decision for Truman to have to make. Remember that he had available only those two bombs. Another six would be available in 1946. He may very well have made the right decision based on the lesser of two evils proposition.


What Truman did not know, and is still little known today, is that the Japanese nuclear program was well advanced and was not years behind but only a few weeks behind. Their main research and development facility was located in what is now North Korea at Project Z. There is evidence that the Japanese actually conducted a successful nuclear test in the Sea of Japan off the coast of North Korea on the day before the Emperor intervened and forced the Japanese surrender.


Interestingly enough, Project Z fell into the hands of the Russian occupiers of North Korea and Russia was a nuclear power within a few short years.

In other words, it appears, you believe the war with Japan ending when it did, saved lives, on both sides?
 
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civilwarbuff

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As a student of military history, I am of two minds about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I am appalled at the terrible loss of life both at the time and since then due to radiation effects. The total I believe may be several hundred thousand.


On the other hand the invasion of the Japanese main islands was scheduled for the spring of 1946. Military planners were already well aware that the Japanese defense would be desperate and deadly. The official Japanese slogan of the day was "90 million die together”. The Allied planners were preparing for 6 million casualties in the invasion. It was estimated that 2 million of those would be deaths.


It must have been a heart wrenching decision for Truman to have to make. Remember that he had available only those two bombs. Another six would be available in 1946. He may very well have made the right decision based on the lesser of two evils proposition.


What Truman did not know, and is still little known today, is that the Japanese nuclear program was well advanced and was not years behind but only a few weeks behind. Their main research and development facility was located in what is now North Korea at Project Z. There is evidence that the Japanese actually conducted a successful nuclear test in the Sea of Japan off the coast of North Korea on the day before the Emperor intervened and forced the Japanese surrender.


Interestingly enough, Project Z fell into the hands of the Russian occupiers of North Korea and Russia was a nuclear power within a few short years.
this HTML class. Value is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Z...sorry,on a tablet.
 
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peepnklown

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As a history buff, sadly the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unnecessary and I would say, yes, a war crime. By June 1945 Japan was a beaten country. Nearly nothing was left of the Imperial Navy. Japan’s air force had been all but shattered. American planes rained down bombs with only ‘baby’ resistance. Hell, oil hadn’t been available since April. The people of Japan had little to no food and their transportation system was basically done for. We could have sent in the girl scouts in at this point and it would have taken them like 10 days to finish the Japanese off (I kid, I kid). American Generals knew the Japanese were done. Japanese prime minister knew they were done, etc. The Japanese wanted to surrender so badly they even sent PlayStations (I kid, I kid) but, seriously, they wanted too. Of course, instead of picking a military base or military target they picked targets, ‘chosen as targets because of their concentration of activates and population.’ So says the US Strategic Bombing Survey.

I could talk about my theories on why but, I’ll save them for another time.
 
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bhsmte

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As a history buff, sadly the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unnecessary and I would say, yes, a war crime. By June 1945 Japan was a beaten country. Nearly nothing was left of the Imperial Navy. Japan’s air force had been all but shattered. American planes rained down bombs with only ‘baby’ resistance. Hell, oil hadn’t been available since April. The people of Japan had little to no food and their transportation system was basically done for. We could have sent in the girl scouts in at this point and it would have taken them like 10 days to finish the Japanese off (I kid, I kid). American Generals knew the Japanese were done. Japanese prime minister knew they were done, etc. The Japanese wanted to surrender so badly they even sent PlayStations (I kid, I kid) but, seriously, they wanted too. Of course, instead of picking a military base or military target they picked targets, ‘chosen as targets because of their concentration of activates and population.’ So says the US Strategic Bombing Survey.

I could talk about my theories on why but, I’ll save them for another time.

Why didn't the Japanese surrender, if things were that bad?
 
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peepnklown

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Why didn't the Japanese surrender, if things were that bad?

Excellent question my friend.
They tried, oh yeah, they did.
Did you want me to type something up about it?
 
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peepnklown

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Go on............

Ok, April 1945, the US State Department was pretty sure the Japanese were seeking a way to stop the war and I mean vigorously. The US Joint Intelligence Committee reported that the Japanese were looking into surrender terms (Ooo, we already broken Japan’s secret codes so we knew all the details). I forget to mention; the Japanese were talking surrender options with China and the Soviet Union from September 1944 to December 1944.
We can talk about Japan’s surrender terms being censored in January of 1945 (the terms were basically the same we accepted in September except terms about the Emperor).
We can talk about Japan’s efforts to end the war peacefully via Sweden.

I could go on and on. It’s pretty sad.
 
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bhsmte

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Ok, April 1945, the US State Department was pretty sure the Japanese were seeking a way to stop the war and I mean vigorously. The US Joint Intelligence Committee reported that the Japanese were looking into surrender terms (Ooo, we already broken Japan’s secret codes so we knew all the details). I forget to mention; the Japanese were talking surrender options with China and the Soviet Union from September 1944 to December 1944.
We can talk about Japan’s surrender terms being censored in January of 1945 (the terms were basically the same we accepted in September except terms about the Emperor).
We can talk about Japan’s efforts to end the war peacefully via Sweden.

I could go on and on. It’s pretty sad.

I think I know the website you got this from.

Anyway, these telegrams between Japan and the Japanese ambassador in the Soviet Union, indicate Japan was unwilling to accept unconditional surrender and would continue the war if they were asked for unconditional surrender.

http://nuclearfiles.org/menu/library/correspondence/togo-sato/corr_togo-sato.htm
 
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peepnklown

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Anyway, these telegrams between Japan and the Japanese ambassador in the Soviet Union, indicate Japan was unwilling to accept unconditional surrender and would continue the war if they were asked for unconditional surrender.

I do not know that site.
Japan’s surrender terms were nearly identical to the terms that were accepted by the U.S. at the official surrender except for the terms about the Emperor. The Japanese feared the US would humiliate and or execute their Emperor (You have to understand, their Emperor was semi-divine plus their whole culture of dishonor, etc). Imagine if the U.S. lost the war and we feared they would humiliate our president and or execute him in front of us, etc, etc. In the end, Japan was done and everyone knew it (Well, Generals, Navy Secretary, etc).
 
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Cactus Jack

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Think of the options, as if you were the POTUS back then-
1. Invade Japan, expect a long hard fight with countless civilians and military killed.
2. Place Japan under siege. Might be over in a few months, might be a few years. Again countless civilians will be lost, untold numbers lost in a known cruel & inhumane type of warfare.
3. Hit a variety of targets with atomic weapons. Might be looking at tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilian and military deaths, but the war is likely over in less than 6 months, at the most.

Now ask yourself this, which is more moral? And keep in mind there was more than than the two atomic weapons used. Two or more had already been delivered to Tinian, an over all total is around 12-14 they could have used.

But when we're talking about right vs. wrong, morals, ethics, etc. etc. ad nausaum, let's look at what Japan was doing to so many different countries already.

IMO we should have used all 14.
 
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peepnklown

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IMO we should have used all 14.

First, it wasn’t going to be a long hard fight. The Generals of the Airforce and Army knew Japan was done. Hell, even General Curtis LeMay said we were, ‘driving them back to the stone age.’ March 1945, we bombed Tokyo, killed 100,000 and leaving at least a million people homeless. We then come back in May. We rained down at least 9,000 tons of explosives. Japan’s navy and air force were virtually smashed. We had Japan surrounded and supplied were cut off. Even General Eisenhower wrote later that Japan was already defeated and dropping the bomb was entirely unnecessary. General MacArthur agreed.
 
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