Defunding Planned Parenthood

Fantine · Aug 4, 2015

I think that we are all Christians and that we all support worthy causes. We all have our favorite causes to support.

In terms of pro-life, I contribute to a center that helps new parents with parenting classes and supplies such as diapers, wipes, car seats, clothing, playpens, etc. I like the approach of this center and its commitment to helping young parents into the child's toddler years.

I sponsor a child through Unbound, I send monthly donations to an order whose mission field is poor areas of the U.S., and contribute regularly to the scholarship program that I visited last summer on my Central American mission trip. I am active in our local Habitat for Humanity, and of course, my parish.

I would not ask any of you to support my favorite charities--where you make donations is your decision. I am happy with the way I prioritize my current donations as well.

SolomonVII · Aug 4, 2015

MikeK said:
Have I not been clear in my repeated calls to defund PP? By my count I've stated that it should be done at least 3 times in this thread. How many times have you stated your appreciation for the good that PP does?

...not that their good excuses their evils, only that good is worthy of mention because it is good.

I have stated my appreciation for the good that PP does about as many times as I have gone on record expressing my deep appreciation for Hilter and Mussolini getting their trains running on time.

I only note that PapaZoom had said that he would happy for his tax dollars to go to PP, if their contributions would be limited to the good. That was the post that you responded to, and my response was to your response to him, and that particular response alone.

Did you ever see the movie that had Woody Allen disguising his condom purchase with thirty other purchases from the same drug store at the same time? Everybody in the theatre laughed, so I guess that ploy did not work for him. But if nobody exactly notices your hearty support for de-funding PP, take note of how many of your posts are directed directly against those who are heartily supporting de-funding of PP.

MikeK · Aug 4, 2015

LivingWordUnity said:
I will let Jesus be my judge since he knows me and what I have or have not done for charity better than you do.

I am not interested in judging you. Are you interested in forging a partnership with a goal of saving the unborn from a gruesome death and helping mothers in need to raise their children?

LivingWordUnity · Aug 4, 2015

MikeK said:
I am not interested in judging you. Are you interested in forging a partnership with a goal of saving the unborn from a gruesome death and helping mothers in need to raise their children?

I am not going to give you my personal finance information. And you have derailed the thread by insisting on such nonsense.

MikeK · Aug 4, 2015

LivingWordUnity said:
I am not going to give you my personal finance information. And you have derailed the thread by insisting on such nonsense.

I haven't asked for your finance information and am not interested in it. I asked you to make a pledge and explained what I am offering in parallel, for the good of the unborn and the young.

ebia · Aug 5, 2015

MoonlessNight said:
The conversation won't be able to move further until the other side agrees to stop taking the word of Planned Parenthood as indisputable truth. That's all there is to it.

Which conversation. I don't think anyone here is taking it as such

pdudgeon · Aug 5, 2015

MikeK said:
Balderdash. I know what I give and what I intend to give. My intent is the same as any who offer to match donations during a pledge drive - it is to maximize the effect of my plsacrifice. Alone I can (and will) do a bit, but with others I can do much more. My inspiration for this challenge came from Relevant Radio (read: politically conservative Catholic radio) dinars who offer similar deals.

I agree that your intent here is the same as any others who make the same offer.
but why is it necessary?
if a charity or a cause is good in and of itself, is it's cause made more worthy by the amount a person gives?
it is better to give freely from the heart what one can, than to stand in the square and announce to all what one does.
If someone decides to take up your challenge, then you will have your reward here on earth.

pdudgeon · Aug 5, 2015

Fantine said:
I decided to go to FactCheck.org to find out the truth about the clandestine Planned Parenthood videos recorded by the "Center for Medical Progress." The article determined that the amounts per specimen discussed would barely cover the transfer and shipping costs. In addition, it determined that as long as profit is not involved, there was nothing illegal in using the remains, with the women's consent, for medical research.

It is possible that women who have had abortions might gain some comfort in knowing that donating the fetal tissue might help save many lives--as did the fetuses used to develop polio vaccines. They might grieve, as parents who donate the organs of a child who died tragically, but they might derive some comfort--would you deny them that comfort?

I had a miscarriage once, four months, and if that fetus could have been used to develop vaccines or cure dread diseases like polio, I would have consented (as it was, I miscarried at home, brought the remains to the obstetrician--they did a pathology report and then disposed of him in whatever way it was done in the late 1970's....) His soul is with God and I think if his remains could have developed a vaccine or a cure that would have been honoring his brief pre-born life...

I have a friend whose baby died during heart surgery at the age of 5 weeks. The doctors wanted to do an autopsy to learn how they could improve the operation (this was 1974) to save other babies. Emotionally, she didn't want to allow it, but when I see all the babies who survive infant heart surgery today I know that her little girl's autopsy contributed to the success of that surgery today.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

an autopsy is far different than deliberately choosing to use surgical techniques on a living person that would allow for harvesting organs for re-sale.
and donating the organs of a child who has already experienced life outside the womb and subsequently died, is also far different than deliberately adjusting surgical techniques
with the goal of maximizing the profit for the sponsoring organization.

pdudgeon · Aug 5, 2015

MikeK said:
It is my impression that some are more charitable than others, and it is also my observation that some seem more interested in whining and complaining than in action. If you sense something else, then go ahead and issue your own challenge to whoever you see fit to determine who is and is not willing to put their money where their mouth is.

there will always be people who are charitable in the world, and yes they can be appealed to in an appropriate venue.
But giving by Christians should remain between them and God, who is the source of their inspiration.
such challenges to give more than God has directed are not needed, and have no place here.

Now can we please return to the topic of defunding Planned Parenthood?

MikeK · Aug 5, 2015

pdudgeon said:
I agree that your intent here is the same as any others who make the same offer.
but why is it necessary?

It is necessary because children are dying and this will amplify the good that we can do. Working together, challenging eachother, we accomplish more than we otherwise would.

if a charity or a cause is good in and of itself, is it's cause made more worthy by the amount a person gives?

Not more worthy, but the outcome gets better, the more we give. We're talking about saving lives here.

it is better to give freely from the heart what one can, than to stand in the square and announce to all what one does.
If someone decides to take up your challenge, then you will have your reward here on earth.

The reward I am seeking is that less children will be killed before they are born.

Pink Spider · Aug 5, 2015

______________________________________
______________________________________

MOD HAT ON

This thread underwent a cleanup by CF-Staff
because some posts were of a Flaming/ Goading
nature.

Remember, while you are discussing:
Address the post - not the Poster.

MOD HAT OFF

______________________________________
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WarriorAngel · Aug 5, 2015

brewmama said:
Yes, ordinarily this lot would be screaming about "subsidies for the rich", but strangely enough...silence.

Truth.

I see big companies getting attacked for the salaries and alleged greed...
But all you can hear from the more left sided liberals on this.... is the eerie sound of crickets.

WarriorAngel · Aug 5, 2015

LivingWordUnity said:
It seems impossible to get today's society to see it through the eyes of the Church since people don't even accept the basic premise that some things are objectively true. I believe that the "strong delusion" St. Paul said would come is today's relativism.

I met a woman some years ago online in some obscure forum...
Anyway - she is a fundamentalist and she regrets deeply her choice to abort 3 children and she works tirelessly on the issue of abortions... even meeting with the UN repeatedly - speaking on this.
Her name is Denise and she is on my facebook.
The interesting observation i have made is how she attacks contraception for its abortive properties.
And how she finds the Catholic Church as being the best pro life organization there is.
Maybe one day she will convert... however; she lives a life of penance.

WarriorAngel · Aug 5, 2015

pdudgeon said:
by their deliberate choice, yes, they are the ones who have turned their back and walked away.
but that's how it has always been, down through the ages.

The issue of abortion is no different.
It is turning away from abundant life and God's plan
and accepting instead a cup of the bitter dregs of loss.

no one comes out of an abortion happy and smiling.
they come away crying, in both physical and emotional pain, wombs violated, knowing inside what it was that they gave up.

Earlier this year at The March for Life in Ottowa there were live testimonies given
by women who had had a previous abortion. They spoke about what it was like,
the emotional pain and suffering that they went through, and how hard it
had been for them to find comfort, reconciliation, and to come back to
the church.

They had experienced first hand an abortion, and as a result those women (and men too) were marching
for life. Oh yes, they also had men there at the rally who had supported abortion and regretted doing so.
If anything their grief for the fatherhood they lost that day was even more heartbreaking to see.

This is not just a woman's issue, no matter what PP says. It affects men too.

It affects those men who beg [and are already pro life too] - as tho the woman is the only one affected.

It affects the whole unit of the ties.
Mostly the child, then the mother who made the choice and the father who was helpless to have their child.

frenchdefense · Aug 5, 2015

LivingWordUnity said:
As a reminder to all, here's what the bishops have said about Planned Parenthood.

USCCB Fact Sheet: Planned Parenthood Federation of America

The Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) is the single largest abortion provider in the United States. In 2005 its affiliates performed 264,943 surgical and "medical" (i.e., RU-486) abortions -- a new record, and about 10,000 more abortions than in 2004, at a time when abortions are declining overall.1 PPFA is responsible for 1 in 5 abortions in the U.S.

While PPFA claims to serve women's "choices," it reports providing prenatal care to just 12,548 women in 2005, and infertility services to only 248. Together these are one-twentieth the number of abortions it performs. For 2005 it reported no adoption referrals (compared to 1,414 the previous year).2

PPFA takes in enormous revenues: $902.8 million in the year ending June 30, 2006 ($55.8 million more than expenses). Significant revenues are generated by charging $350-$650 per abortion. Over a third of its income, $305.3 million, was from taxpayers' dollars -- 12% more than in the previous year, and another all-time record.3

PPFA says it wants to reduce abortions, yet advocates unrestricted access to abortion and lobbies and/or files suit against even very modest and widely supported laws that reduce abortions: laws requiring informed consent, a 24-hour waiting period after counseling to think over the decision, parental notification or consent before a minor daughter's abortion, state and federal bans on the gruesome partial-birth abortion procedure, recordkeeping and reporting of abortions, and a ban on transporting minors across state lines for abortions to circumvent a home state's parental involvement law. 4

"Freedom of choice" does not apply to those who disagree with PPFA. It strongly opposes laws recognizing a right of conscience for doctors and nurses morally opposed to abortion, referring to these dismissively as "refusal clauses." When government has said it will not force health professionals to violate their medical and moral judgment on abortion, PPFA makes the bizarre claim that such a policy "intrudes on private, personal medical decision making." PPFA, a corporate entity, dismisses conscientious objections by hospitals and health care organizations as "the whims of a corporate entity." 5

PPFA promotes over-the-counter sales of high-dose "emergency contraceptive" (EC) pills, even to minors, although lower-dose birth control pills require a prescription due to health risks.6 PPFA also opposes conscience rights for pharmacists who object to dispensing these drugs due to their abortifacient potential.7 To promote EC use, PPFA affiliates hold "Free EC Days" around the country,8 despite numerous studies showing that EC programs do not reduce unplanned pregnancies or abortions.9

Another PPFA giveaway is condoms. Consumer Reports ranked two PPFA condom brands dead last (and the only ones rated "poor") among 23 brands tested for strength and reliability, discovering a (presumably unintentional) way to keep condom users coming back for abortions and STD treatment.10

PPFA practices a very selective form of generosity to the victims of horrible tragedy. After so many lost their lives in the 9/11 terrorist attack, the January 2006 Sago Mine disaster, and Hurricane Katrina, PPFA offered relief to survivors ... in the form of free birth control and abortions.11

PPFA strongly supports the dangerous abortion drug RU-486, promoted its approval by the FDA, and volunteered to conduct early U.S. drug trials. In one trial the patient nearly bled to death, but the PPFA affiliate did not report this as an "adverse event."12 Young Californians Holly Patterson and Vivian Tran died from toxic poisoning after Planned Parenthood's RU-486 abortions.13 PPFA's promotion of RU-486 continues, despite a medical finding that the risk of death after such abortions, from infection alone, is ten times the risk of death from all causes in surgical abortions at the same stage of pregnancy.14 Some affiliates even flout FDA protocols by giving RU-486 for abortions up to one week later than the time the FDA found such use "safe."15

PPFA exports its ideology to developing nations, promoting abortion as family planning and even pressing for U.S. taxpayer support of organizations involved in coerced abortion programs abroad. In 1983, the then-current president of PPFA co-authored and signed a notorious International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF) declaration urging affiliates to violate their own countries' laws and perform illegal abortions: "Family Planning Associations and other non-governmental organizations should not use the absence of a law or the existence of an unfavourable law as an excuse for inaction; action outside the law, and even in violation of it, is part of the process of stimulating change."16

Source

I would point out the these "facts" are highly editorialized.

This is the kind of thing is unbecoming to the USCCB and the cause generally.

frenchdefense · Aug 5, 2015

WarriorAngel said:
I met a woman some years ago online in some obscure forum...
Anyway - she is a fundamentalist and she regrets deeply her choice to abort 3 children and she works tirelessly on the issue of abortions... even meeting with the UN repeatedly - speaking on this.

Meet's with the UN ?

You mean, like, all of it? How do you get to meet with the UN once, let alone repeatedly.

Especially on the subject of abortion, which isn't seen as a controversial in the UN.

Seriously WA, how do you get to meet with the UN as an individual ? I'd really like to know.

WarriorAngel · Aug 5, 2015

frenchdefense said:
Meet's with the UN ?

You mean, like, all of it? How do you get to meet with the UN once, let alone repeatedly.

Especially on the subject of abortion, which isn't seen as a controversial in the UN.

Seriously WA, how do you get to meet with the UN as an individual ? I'd really like to know.

I dont know...but she has pictures - and she asks for prayers before she goes.
My picture thingy is NOT working so i cant share.
Maybe she started an organization - but she is a speaker and she has been on TV in Canada.
[She is Canadian] and has been on talk shows.
I have not spoke to her personally on these things - but i watch her and observe.

Its been - 10 years since i met her via another forum.
We emailed one another - thus i could find her again about 3 years ago on FB.
I often find we dont meet ppl by accident or mistake.

WarriorAngel · Aug 5, 2015

Ok, she has an org.

http://www.canadasilentnomore.com/

United Nations-CSW-59
March 15-20th 2015
Commission on the Status of Women (CSW)- Report
By Denise *********

It was a blessing to have Abigail ******* and our teams with me this past week in New York City, at the United Nations Headquarters there.
I had appointments with several Delegates from Latvia, Croatia, Cyprus, Ireland, Poland, Malta, India and Chad-Africa. It was also good to meet and share with the Ambassador to Grenada.
As well, I met and spoke with many global NGO leaders, and Delegates from Malawi, Uruguay, Namibia, Congo, Central African Republic, Indonesia and Kenya. This week we will send them research and information on how legal abortion is harmful to women’s mental and reproductive health, including subsequent pre-term births and breast cancer etc.
It was an honour to be on the expert panel with other passionate speakers and our co-sponsor, Sierra Leone, where I also got to meet and speak with His Excellency, the Ambassador to Sierra Leone. We had a very well attended event and great feedback.
We also hosted, and I spoke at a Parallel Event, where Dr. Angela Lanfranchi, Joel Brind, PhD. my associate Ms. Abigail *******, who also shared her personal testimony on the pain of legal abortion and who all gave excellent presentations. However, it was the last day of the conference, and first time we had so few people in attendance.
Furthermore, we met with several Israelis, and shared important information with them.
Please pray that GOD continues to open doors HE wants me to bring this message to. Thank you for your prayers and support!

WarriorAngel · Aug 5, 2015

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152695636982927

Sharon Osbourne shares.

Students for Life of America

"I howled my way through it, and it was horrible. I would never recommend it to anyone because it comes back to haunt you."

Learn more about why Sharon Osbourne said this about her abortion: http://bit.ly/1kGPclD

pdudgeon · Aug 5, 2015

pdudgeon said:
I agree that your intent here is the same as any others who make the same offer.
but why is it necessary?
if a charity or a cause is good in and of itself, is it's cause made more worthy by the amount a person gives?
it is better to give freely from the heart what one can, than to stand in the square and announce to all what one does.
If someone decides to take up your challenge, then you will have your reward here on earth.

basically the church and the world look at charitable giving in different ways.
The church deems it a good thing inspired by God to help take care of those who are unable themselves
to work for a living. And they feel that it should be done so that the matter lies between the donor and God.

the world sees giving as something to be publicized; good for the receiver and equally good for the donor.

and that is why using a worldly approach in a religious forum will probably not be received as well as you had hoped it would be.

Defunding Planned Parenthood

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