How can we be confident in our theories about the Book of Revelation?

ob77 said:

I would also suggest that the student check out Revelation 2-9 and 3-9.

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I always strive to lead the bible student to the truth and that is my only purpose. I try to provide information to guide and inform students of what they should know.

Ripheus27 said:

I see so many posts, and I'll admit I've even made one or two or so myself, explaining some elaborate theory about what the events/things/beings in this book represent. Now no one seems to really agree about all of it, though. You'd think at least some of us would read a person's theory and if it were the true one, we'd be convinced because we were trying to agree with the true theory. But it seems more as if we just use our theories to justify our worldview somehow--like if we have certain views about certain political and church groups, we mold our Book of Revelation model in accordance with those attitudes, so we don't have a reason to listen to anyone else's model. Doesn't that make our theories suspect?

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You know thats like asking why did the Catholics cover-up over 2000 cases of child molestation--who knows! But I'm not going to dismiss it just because they didn't adopt it into their doctrine since organized religion was so full of chaos and our God is not the Father of chaos. It IS in the Bible in part as the book of Jude quotes from the Book of Enoch and it was written 2nd century BC. I explains further the Archangels and their place in heaven and elaborates on the Nephilim which the Bible gives us little to no insight on.

Awaken4Christ said:

Sometimes A prophecy isn't discerned properly until the appointed time or times.

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Yes and this would come about in the final gathering as one flock at the 11th hour.

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Berean777 said:

Obama Baruch means son of the blessed.

Baruch means blessed
Obama means son of

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so? And "Obama nation" sounds like abomination. What does Barry Soetoro mean?

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We can't be. And that's okay. We can become okay about that. My favorite explanation of The Revelation to John (Apocalypse), is the book "The Lamb's Supper" by Scott Hahn, and the parts I'm capable of understanding from "Eschatology" by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. But I'm content that much, if not most of the Revelation is metaphor and more importantly mystery. We don't NEED to understand everything before we die. We DO need to contemplate God's mysteries, and love the Lord our God, with all our hearts, all our souls, and all our strength, and love our neighbor as ourselves. We need to follow and listen to Jesus. There are wondrous fugues of inspired poetic brilliance and prophecy in the Apocalypse. And I can't recommend the Lamb's Supper enough to try to get a better understanding of it, but in the end, our "theories" and understandings of (or lack thereof) regarding Revelation is not going to help us into Heaven, unless the reading of that scripture is done with prayer to the Holy Ghost, and a stepping back from pride. It is useful to the degree that you become closer to our Blessed Lord Jesus by reading it. If instead, it sends you off into a sci-fi action adventure movie in your mind, and doesn't draw you closer to Jesus, and if one is uncomfortable with the idea of some things simply being mysteries for man to contemplate, meditate and pray on, rather than try to define or contain in someway, then perhaps that book should be put aside, in favor of the Gospels and the Acts for a while.

A New World said:

Actually only Daniel was told that his words were sealed until the time of the end (Dan. 12:9).

John wrote: "And he said to me, "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near" (Rev. 22:10)

John indicated several times that the events of Revelation were imminent (Rev. 1:1-3; 3:10-11; 22:6-12).

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Revelation 10:3-4
And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. [4] And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So whatever was uttered as the seven thunders was sealed, contrary to what you said. And what is going to be revealed? All that the prophets spoke of. But it won't be until the days of the 7th angel. Pretty clear

Jaxxi said:

You know thats like asking why did the Catholics cover-up over 2000 cases of child molestation--who knows! But I'm not going to dismiss it just because they didn't adopt it into their doctrine since organized religion was so full of chaos and our God is not the Father of chaos. It IS in the Bible in part as the book of Jude quotes from the Book of Enoch and it was written 2nd century BC. I explains further the Archangels and their place in heaven and elaborates on the Nephilim which the Bible gives us little to no insight on.

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I suggest you do a little bit of research on it - http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Enoch.html

By the way it's not even a part of early Jewish canon either including the Tanakh and the Septuagint.

Thanks that is good to know that it was not part of the early Jewish canons.

Berean777 said:

Thanks that is good to know that it was not part of the early Jewish canons.

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Yeah because if it was not part of the early Jewish canons it couldnt possibly be worth reading and gainng any insight on although it WAS written over 2000 years ago. I dont understand you guys sometimes.

Jaxxi said:

Racist? Towards who? So is Gone with the Wind and The Bible itself but hey those were the times man. It wasnt racist back then. Thats just the way things were. Dont hate the player...

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Jaxxi, the book of Enoch is racist against every bloodline that isn't Hebrew and elitest against every culture that isn't Jewish.

To declare I Enoch as biblical is to promote such values because it teaches racism and elitism as a general principle for believers. There would be no greater of a contradiction than a Gentile Christian taking the book of Enoch at its word.

While it does have some redeemable teachings about the Messiah, judgment and salvation, it foresees an end where only those of Jewish culture are saved. Any uncircumcised believer that sees faith in Jesus as the only means of salvation would not appreciate that end.

We've come along way since the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. No need to revert.

If we are all from Adam and Eve arent we of the same bloodline?

So then the New Testament is discriminatory against people who arent Christian right? Like Jews

Barraco said:

Jaxxi, the book of Enoch is racist against every bloodline that isn't Hebrew and elitest against every culture that isn't Jewish.

To declare I Enoch as biblical is to promote such values because it teaches racism and elitism as a general principle for believers. There would be no greater of a contradiction than a Gentile Christian taking the book of Enoch at its word.

While it does have some redeemable teachings about the Messiah, judgment and salvation, it foresees an end where only those of Jewish culture are saved. Any uncircumcised believer that sees faith in Jesus as the only means of salvation would not appreciate that end.

We've come along way since the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. No need to revert.

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See my above questions please.

Jaxxi said:

So then the New Testament is discriminatory against people who arent Christian right? Like Jews

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No. The New Testament is not worried about race or culture. It's concerned with God being glorified by all nations, peoples, languages, and tribes.

If you are Jewish, you can follow Jesus. If you are Greek, Germanic, Latin, African, Asian, Native American, Aboriginal or any race or culture, you can follow Jesus without conforming to another's culture.

Jaxxi said:

If we are all from Adam and Eve arent we of the same bloodline?

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Yes. But since the tower of nations, that has not been recognized, as can be seen in the Bible when Jews were told not to marry foreigners.

Barraco said:

Yes. But since the tower of nations, that has not been recognized, as can be seen in the Bible when Jews were told not to marry foreigners.

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Barraco said:

No. The New Testament is not worried about race or culture. It's concerned with God being glorified by all nations, peoples, languages, and tribes.

If you are Jewish, you can follow Jesus. If you are Greek, Germanic, Latin, African, Asian, Native American, Aboriginal or any race or culture, you can follow Jesus without conforming to another's culture.

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Yes but if you do not get baptized of the water you will not see the Kingdom of God. So it is saying you must be baptized of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in water to go to heaven but those of Jewish faith arent baptized as Christians so...they wont be entering is how Im reading it! John 3:3. is the scripture I am referring to. I feel the New Testament is also telling us No one gets to the Father except through the Son. Those who believe might be saved but just because you are saved does not mean you are worthy of the Kingdom of God unless you believe in the Christ. Is this correct?

Jaxxi said:

Yes but if you do not get baptized of the water you will not see the Kingdom of God. So it is saying you must be baptized of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in water to go to heaven but those of Jewish faith arent baptized as Christians so...they wont be entering is how Im reading it! John 3:3. is the scripture I am referring to. I feel the New Testament is also telling us No one gets to the Father except through the Son. Those who believe might be saved but just because you are saved does not mean you are worthy of the Kingdom of God unless you believe in the Christ. Is this correct?

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John 3:3 does not say "if you do not get baptized of the water you will not see the Kingdom of God!"