The Gospel

http://biblehub.com/isr/psalms/95.htm
http://biblehub.com/text/psalms/95-11.htm
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm 95:11

http://biblehub.com/isr/hebrews/8.htm
4For if indeed He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the Torah,

5who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly, as Mosheh was warned when he was about to make the Tent. For He said, “See that you make all according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

6But now He has obtained a more excellent service, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was constituted on better promises.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says, “See, the days are coming,” says יהוה, “when I shall conclude with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah a renewed covenant,

9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Mitsrayim, because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them,” says יהוה.

http://biblehub.com/isr/2_corinthians/11.htm

1I wish that you would bear with me in a little folly. But indeed, you are bearing with me.

2For I am jealous for you with a jealousy according to Elohim. For I gave you in marriage to one husband, to present you as an innocent maiden to Messiah.

3But I am afraid, lest, as the serpent deceived Ḥawwah by his trickery, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Messiah.

4For, indeed, if he who is coming proclaims another יהושע,a whom we have not proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different Good News which you have not accepted, you put up with it well enough!

3Beloved ones, making all haste to write to you concerning our common deliverance, I felt the necessity to write to you urging you to earnestly contend for the belief which was once for all delivered to the set-apart ones.

36“Therefore let all the house of Yisra’ĕl know for certain that Elohim has made this יהושע, whom you impaled, both Master and Messiah.”

37And having heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Kĕpha and the rest of the emissaries, “Men, brothers, what shall we do?”

anonymouswho said:

Hello my friend. If it's okay with you, i just want to address aion and aionios right now, since this is a big subject. Thank you for your time brother.

First, Yeshua never said never. He says the fire will "οὐ: not" be quenched. Not does not mean never, because never means "not ever". They mean two different things.

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Yes we have it in the bible (KJV)

"
Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"

Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"

I dont trust men like you to have more Greek and English translation ability than the ones who translated the text and I believe God overshadowed the writing of the scriptures also. When you delve into a greek word to try and avoid the consequence of the clarity of that verse, that shows that the argument you have is weak and on shaky ground.

and the Greek is 4570 and means not extinguished, perpeptual, not to be quenched, unquenchable.

anonymouswho said:

This verse also doesn't say never:

"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:" Mark 3:29

Those three words that say "hath never forgivenness" in the Greek are:

οκ (no) ἔχει (has)ἄφεσιν (forgiveness) ες (to) τὸν (the) αών (aion: age, eon)

There's three extra words that don't even get translated.

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The words

"29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." (Mark 3:29 KJV)

these words are clear and good enough for me and most believers. No need to try and change them because they affect a doctrine.

and the word "never" can mean "never"



As the text are translated forever never and eternal everlasting, I accept them as they are, no need to try and find one of many different word meanings in Greek and just choose what I think they should mean. Some Greek words have many meanings and subtle differences. Every word has to be weighed in the context and with all the factors and stresses of the word and various aspects of the language. Basically what you try to do and many cults do the same . Is to change the clear meaning of scripture when it corrects you and try desperately to thread subtle meanings together to change the actual meaning. This is not right. Believers can have endless arguments forever about every other word in the bible that way and make an entirely different meaning in some cases than the clear text.

2KnowHim said:

Why are you quoting the Law to me, when, In Christ it is fulfilled? For the law was not given to a righteous man, but to sinners.

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First off I can use the things that are written aforetime for learning and showing aspects of Gods work and revelation. But i am not using the law as a means for any to establish their own righteousness. The law is good if a man use it lawfully. Unlawful use is to bind believers under it and things like sabbath keeping, tithing sacrifces circumcision, etc etc etc etc. And all scripture is profitable for correction and reproof etc. You misunderstand what i am saying about the law.

2KnowHim said:

And do you Really believe "You" made a choice for Him? Without His Spirit Quickening you first?

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You argue with deception trying to pose an argument or create a straw man argument etc etc. You say . "Without His Spirit Quickening you first?" as if I said that. I never said that God does not work in all men. He does by the true Light that lighteth every man John 1:9. But as many as received him to them gave he the power .... Jesus said he who believes on Him has life, and we read Jesus asking others "where is YOUR faith", etc

2KnowHim said:

Paul is also the one who says, That we all died in Adam too. We were dead in Adam, but now we live in Christ, and that has NOTHING to do with you my friend choosing Him.
For it is by Grace we are saved, and that NOT of Ourselves it is the gift of God.

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It is interesting how you, (like all false teachers and cult leaders) will try to quote only the parts of a verse that you think favour your doctrines, You said (AND LET ALL READ ON AND SEE THE DECEPTION HERE)

You said,

"For it is by Grace we are saved, and that NOT of Ourselves it is the gift of God"

and yet in God's Holy scriptures that were given by the Spirit of God through paul, we read,

Ephesians 2:8
"
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Do you see how you deceptively omitted the "through faith " part. We must all believe and have faith in the gospel. Paul said that the gospel he peached was received by them and they will continue to be saved "if they continue on the faith"

we read many verses about believers faith, and continuing in it, and not denying the faith, or casting off faith. Some will depart from the faith and make shipwreck. Some cast off their first faith having damnation etc etc.

LoveofTruth said:

As the text are translated forever never and eternal everlasting, I accept them as they are, no need to try and find one of many different word meanings in Greek and just choose what I think they should mean.

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Another words, you never read or tried to understand aion or aionios and all that anonymouswho wrote to you.

LoveofTruth said:

Do you see how you deceptively omitted the "through faith " part. We must all believe and have faith in the gospel. Paul said that the gospel he peached was received by them and they will continue to be saved "if they continue on the faith"

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I didn't intentionally leave faith out, I was paraphasing, but now that I now that you will accuse me of being deceptive over it, I can promise you it won't happen again. This is the very reason why I didn't want to talk to you anymore. Everything I say to you, you either won't address, and twist what I say to you because you don't want to answer or don't know how to answer me.

Real Faith is being "persuaded by The Holy Spirit, even that is not of ourselves, and most people understand that.
And if you had read the post that Jugghead talked about you would have known that also.
The bottom line is, get this, because this is the subject at hand......that we were discussing, that you have tried to change...
You have NO Choice, You don't Choose Him, without Him. And when Paul refers to Continuing in The Faith, he means to Continue to LISTEN To The Holy Spirit's Teachings, so that you can remain in Faith.

anonymouswho,
I've never noticed it before, so I haven't studied it out. But from what I have read the past hour or so, it looks like it has everthing to do with "that generation" that he is talking about. IOW, if you'll notice in vs.9
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus (Joshua) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

I think that the "never" should actually be correct but only in the sense of that Generation, but as we read on we see that it's not "never" literally....because we know that they will eventually have the vail removed from the heart...as he says...in this place..
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

And also here.

Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

That's the best I can do for now.
Blessings

LoveofTruth said:

As the text are translated forever never and eternal everlasting, I accept them as they are, no need to try and find one of many different word meanings in Greek and just choose what I think they should mean. Some Greek words have many meanings and subtle differences. Every word has to be weighed in the context and with all the factors and stresses of the word and various aspects of the language. Basically what you try to do and many cults do the same . Is to change the clear meaning of scripture when it corrects you and try desperately to thread subtle meanings together to change the actual meaning. This is not right. Believers can have endless arguments forever about every other word in the bible that way and make an entirely different meaning in some cases than the clear text.

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So in short, you will first trust what a man interprets it as rather than what the Father would tell you directly, is that not placing men above the Father? And if you say I am implying divine intervention, that is exactly what I am implying, if He does not directly intervene in our lives we will ALWAYS miss the mark.

2KnowHim said:

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

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and

Isaiah 48:22 " 'There is no peace,' says the Lord, 'for the wicked.' "

Isaiah 57:20 "But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt."

Isaiah 57:21 "There is no peace," says my God, "to the wicked."

no peace or rest ever, outside of Christ there is no rest.

2KnowHim said:

Another words, you never read or tried to understand aion or aionios and all that anonymouswho wrote to you.

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No I read through it and it would take me days to expose all the errors and some will try desperately to avoid the consequence of the simple scriptural truth.

2KnowHim said:

I didn't intentionally leave faith out, I was paraphasing, but now that I now that you will accuse me of being deceptive over it, I can promise you it won't happen again.

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I believe you didn't mention it, perhaps even subconsciously, because you do not want to preach our faith in the gospel. Also it is good that you were corrected. A wise man loves correction. if you are wise you can say "thank you I needed that correction". But instead many just dig in and attack.

2KnowHim said:

This is the very reason why I didn't want to talk to you anymore. Everything I say to you, you either won't address, and twist what I say to you because you don't want to answer or don't know how to answer me.

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No I do address much of what is said, I do not have all the time in my day to type up pages and pages of corrections for all the errors. there are so many errors heresies horrible teachings etc, that it would take weeks to answer every one. I try to answer what I believe need to be answered as I listen for the anointing to teach me all things.. And I do know how to answer you, your arguments are not hard at all.

2KnowHim said:

Real Faith is being "persuaded by The Holy Spirit, even that is not of ourselves, and most people understand that.

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Real faith is Hebrews 11, Can you show me scripture for what you call "real faith" as you said above?

2KnowHim said:

And if you had read the post that Jugghead talked about you would have known that also.
The bottom line is, get this, because this is the subject at hand......that we were discussing, that you have tried to change...
You have NO Choice, You don't Choose Him, without Him.

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Again I never said we don't choose God WITHOUT Him. God's Light works in every man John 1:9. and all believers have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us. But we must abide in Christ we must continue in the faith and lay hold of eternal life. We must sow to the spirit to reap everlasting life, we must repent and believe etc etc etc. i could go on all day with such verses. And jesus ask them,

Luke 8:25
"And he said unto them, Where is your faith?"

Colossians 1:4
Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus"

Matthew 9:29
Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you."

Matthew 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

1 Corinthians 2:5
"That your faith "

1 Corinthians 15:14
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain."

2 Corinthians 1:24
Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of yourjoy: for by faith ye stand."

2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,"

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Ephesians 1:15
Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,'

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ."

and

Hebrews 3:12, 14
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God....14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"


So I ask you when a person sins, either a believer or non believer who does the sin? When a person denies jesus either a believer or non believer, who denies God? For God cannot deny Himself?

2KnowHim said:

And when Paul refers to Continuing in The Faith, he means to Continue to LISTEN To The Holy Spirit's Teachings, so that you can remain in Faith.

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No, he says,

"23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Colossians 1:23 KJV)

The hope of the gospel is Christ in you, as paul said a little further down in Colossians

"27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"

This expression, "the faith" refers to the gospel of our salvation, and the truth of God given for all men to know Him and His righteousness.


Acts 16:5
"And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily."

Acts 24:24
And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ."

1 Corinthians 16:13
Watch ye, stand fast in the faith,"

Galatians 1:23
But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed."

Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you thatye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."

Hi mate, 3 main problems underlying your interpretation IMO:
First your inability to reconcile Gods soveriegnty with His ability to create morally free agents. Have you considered Molinism? Bill Lane Craig and Alvin Plantinga both discuss this sort of stuff in depth.

Secondly you wish to deny Beelzebub is a real being exposes a pick and choose atitude to the Biblical record that can only result in a stumble into error. I also detect a materialist theological influence here in your reference to Prometheus.

Thirdly, I find the thought that we become like God by pursuing independent knowledge of good and evil disturbing in that this is demostrably the very thing that drives us away from God.

Your quote from the letter to the Colosians is correct but then we must look at the way in which the Son was the Image to get the guidance: John 5:19, 30 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. [30] By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

I respectfully hope that my thoughts will be of use to. Blessings to you as well.

http://biblehub.com/isr/john/5.htm
40“But you do not desire to come to Me in order to possess life.

41“I do not receive esteem from men,

42but I know you, that you do not have the love of Elohim in you.

43“I have come in My Father’s Name and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, him you would receive.a

44“How are you able to believe, when you are receiving esteem from one another, and the esteem that is from the only Elohim you do not seek?

45“Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Mosheh, in whom you have set your expectation.

46“For if you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, since he wrote about Me.

47“But if you do not believe his writings,a how shall you believe My words?”

LoveofTruth said:

Real faith is Hebrews 11, Can you show me scripture for what you call "real faith" as you said above?

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pis'-tis
From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Word rhēma
hray'-mah
From G4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specifically); by implication a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever: - + evil, + nothing, saying, word.
Rhema denotes a word, saying, or sentence in its outward form, as made up of words (i.e. Parts of Speech): whereas logos denotes a word or saying as the expression of thought: hence, the thing spoken or written, the account, &c. given.

Rom_8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

LoveofTruth said:

So I ask you when a person sins, either a believer or non believer who does the sin? When a person denies jesus either a believer or non believer, who denies God? For God cannot deny Himself?

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I know this is a bait and trap, but nevertheless.....

The man of sin, the son of peridition, the old man, the flesh...
Not the new man, for he cannot sin for he is born of God.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

LoveofTruth said:

and
Isaiah 48:22 " 'There is no peace,' says the Lord, 'for the wicked.' "
Isaiah 57:20 "But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt."
Isaiah 57:21 "There is no peace," says my God, "to the wicked."
no peace or rest ever, outside of Christ there is no rest.

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See, right here, this is the reason I don't want to talk to you. Because you are looking for fault in everything we say.
This was a convo. between me and anonymous, and you came into it, for what I don't know, I have no idea what your point is, other than all you want to do is spout out condemnation, death, destruction, and no peace.
And this is all you ever talk about, if this is your Idea of The Good News, The Gospel you say you want to be known. Then you can keep it. At least when we speak, we speak of hope, Love, compassion, mercy, and Life, let the readers dicide.

This scripture I quoted (and you used here) is plainly talking about the vail that is over the children of Israel's heart, but that it Will be Removed one day, and they Will be able to see and hear Him. And have peace through our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus. So you, and your remarks here, was uncalled for, and has no baring on what we were discussing, other than to start and arguement or confusion, and for this The Lord rebuke you.

2KnowHim said:

I know this is a bait and trap, but nevertheless.....

The man of sin, the son of peridition, the old man, the flesh...
Not the new man, for he cannot sin for he is born of God.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

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NO, a believer can sin as John said in 1 John, he said, (but not that they should sin)

"9 If we confess our sins" (1 John 1:9 KJV)

and

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin,..." ( 1 John 2:1 KJV)

also the writer of Hebrews writes to holy brethren in Christ,,

"12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" (Hebrews 3:12-14 KJV)

scripture is clear you are wrong. a believer can sin, and that sin is from an evil heart. Wghatsoever is not of faith is sin. So if a believer sins he is not of faith,

"whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14;23 KJV)

The believer cannot sin as they abide in Christ and His word. This verse in 1 John 3:9 is similar to david saying

"
Psalm 119:11
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

You are trying to say that when believer sins it is not him that sins, only his flesh. This is wrong. a believers who has an evil heart of unbelief is not in the faith. Some cast off their first faith and some deny the faith and make shipwreck of it etc.

We also read

2 Corinthians 7:1 "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

Notice flithiness of SPIRIT also.

And 1 John 3:6 shows that when a believer sins , at the time they are in that sin they cannot claim to have seen Him or known hij, (in that state). If a person who walks in the Light and then goes into darkness says they are in the light still, ( as you do) they lie and do not the truth.

"5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:5-7 KJV)

Only as we abide in Christ through faith can we walk in the light. The word abide means to remain.

"24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father...28 And now, little children, abide in him;" (1 John 2:24,28)

LoveofTruth said:

NO, a believer can sin as John said in 1 John, he said,

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So you're saying you don't believe that one born of God cannot sin? Or are you saying that a believer is not, born of God?
hummm interesting...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, (Which I have) he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, (And He has) and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (and He has)
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, (I would never say that) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But the new man is created after The Righteousness of God in Christ.
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Are you saying that this one is a sinner or sins?

2KnowHim said:

So you're saying you don't believe that one born of God cannot sin? Or are you saying that a believer is not, born of God?
hummm interesting...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, (Which I have) he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, (And He has) and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (and He has)
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, (I would never say that) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But the new man is created after The Righteousness of God in Christ.
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Are you saying that this one is a sinner or sins?

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I am saying what scripture says,

"
Hebrews 10:26
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

If a believer sins he is not in faith,

"whatsoever is not of faith is sin." ( Romans 14:23)

If we say we have not sinned ( past tense, all have sinned0 and if we say we have NO sin ( a sin nature which all have and it must be crucified with Christ to belong to Christ)


But John says we cannot sin as we abide in Christ because he will give us the victory over sin and in Him is no sin. Peter says,

1 Peter 4:1
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"

"12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." ( Romans 6:12,13)

"18 Being then made free from sin," (Romans 6:18)

and here is the verses for you and all who say we cannot sin if we are a believer, or that we sin only in our flesh and so we are not in sin. Or those who say a believer cannot commit sin or sin wilfully after being a believer as if only their flesh sins.

"15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" ( Romans 6:15,16)

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

and as I showed you BELIEVERS can have an evil heart ( inward, spiritual) of unbelief in departing from the living God and this can happen as their hearts get hardened through sin. Hebrews 3

A true believer can fall away from grace and end up in the lake of fire if they have an evil heart of unbelief.

"9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." ( 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 KJV)

So if a believer commits these sins from his evil heart of unbelief and not in faith, ( for whatsoever is not of faith is sin), then they will not inherit the kingdom of God. They will not be saved. It doesnt say their flesh will be put into hell and their spirit into heaven. The soul that sins it shall die. The whole person will be put into hell not just the wickedness they did.

and yes whosever is born of God doth not commit sin. I believe this, and as i abide in Christ i sin not and have cease from sin.

Galatians 5:24
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

I think you will have troble with 1 John 3:6

"6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

do you think it is possible for a believer to "sinneth" or "commit sin"? And if a believer "sinneth" they have not seen God or known him. When a believer sins and says "i am still in the light, my flesh sins but not my spirit etc etc" this is wrong according to John, you cannot even claim to have seen or known him in that state.

This kind of wrong talk that sme say, opens the mouths of the lost world against christians. They see a believer fornicate or lie or steal and then what, the believer says, But i am still in Christ and saved. The lost world shakes their heads and says, Hypocrisy.

John says it is possible, and so

"8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; " (1 john 3:8)

Do you believe this?. if a believer commits sin are they of the devil? they are not of God if they do this. But according to your false doctrine if a believer commits sin and sinneth they can still claim to have seen God and known Him (as they are in that sin and darkness) John says the opposite, we cannot claim to have seen Him or known him a while we are in darkness and unbelief and sin.

God will say to those who are not IN CHRIST "away from me..I never knew you", even if he did know them when they were a new creation i Christ. If they appear in the flesh and not in Christ he never knew them in the flesh.

Think of a man who stands before a person with a white sheet over there body and you come to know them only as they are in that white shinny sheet, then they take that sheet off and you meet them. You can say I never knew you. If we put on Christ God knows us, if we deny Christ and have an evil heart of unbelief and hardened through sin. Then God does not know us. As john says,

"
that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" ( 1 John 1:5,6 KJV)

and

"6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him...9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:6,9 KJV)

and so the clear teaching of John is

"3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." ( 1 John 2:3-6 KJV)

and he warns them

"15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." ( 1 John 2:15 KJV)

so if a believer ( the ones he writes to ) love the world then the love of the father is not IN THEM

LoveofTruth said:

A true believer can fall away from grace and end up in the lake of fire if they have an evil heart of unbelief.

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LoveofTruth said:

and yes whosever is born of God doth not commit sin. I believe this, and as i abide in Christ i sin not and have cease from sin.

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LoveofTruth said:

if a believer commits sin are they of the devil? they are not of God if they do this.

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Boy, you are really confused over this aren't you?

So if I understand you correctly, you believe that a believer is not necessarily born of God, is that right?