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anonymouswho

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When God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil did they have a choice between eating or not?

Hello my friend. I've been discussing this on a different thread, but I copied my interpretation of the Garden and I'd like to know what you think. I see absolutely no way of reconciling free will with our Sovereign God. He knows everything that will happen before it happens, and there is no way we could choose something other than what God has determined. He does all things after the council of His own will. I don't believe in Lucifer, and I think this idea of a fallen angel that gave man knowledge is a pagan myth along the lines of Prometheus the giver of Fire.

Here is my interpretation. I'd love to know what you think.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Genesis 1:26

God tells us right in the first chapter what His plan is for mankind. He is making us in His Image, after His Likeness. This required something that Adam and Eve did not possess when He created them: the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

I believe this next verse is where the true confusion lies:

"And the LORD God commanded theman, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou [shalt] not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thoushalt surely die." Genesis 2:16-17

Here, we see that God tells Adam that he may eat of every tree in the Garden. Then God warns man that if He eats of the Tree of Knowledge, he will die.

The problem with this translation is the word "shalt" in "thou shalt not eat of it". The word shalt is not in the original Hebrew. The original says:

וּמֵעֵ֗ץ (of the tree) הַדַּ֙עַת֙ (of theknowledge) ט֣וֹב (of good) וָרָ֔ע (and evil)לֹ֥א (not) תֹאכַ֖ל (eat) תֹאכַ֖ל (of)

God did not "command" then regarding whether they could eat of the Tree, He warned them of the consequences if they did eat. With this in mind, let's see if we can make sense of this all.

"Now the serpent was more subtil thanany beast of the field which the LORDGod had made. And he said unto thewoman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall noteat of every tree of the garden?" Genesis3:1

So now we are introduced to the Serpent,whom God had made more subtile than any other beast. Right from thebeginning, he lies to to Eve. God neversaid they may "not" eat of every tree, He said they "may" eat of every tree. Thisconfuses Eve, but she responds with what God had told her:

"And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." Genesis 3:2-3

Then, the Serpent lies again, but deceives Eve by mixing his lie with truth:

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:4-5

Eve did not know any better when she ate the Fruit. She had no knowledge of either Good or Evil. How could she have made a rational decision? This was all in perfectalignment of God's original and only plan. God verifies that everything is going according to His plan next:

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know goodand evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" Genesis 3:22

You see my friend, this was not a hugemishap on God's part by which He had to resort to plan B. There is no plan B.

God desired to make man in His Image, and this required the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God Himself planted the Tree and created the Serpent to tempt Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve had this new Knowledge, but they lacked the Wisdom and Prudence to use it. Yeshua fulfills this prophecy and purpose of mankind, as He is the first Man to be given the status of Sonship and aquire the true Image of God:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" Colossians 1:15

Do you think this is a valid interpretation?

Thank you my friend and God bless you.
 
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anonymouswho

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we are not robotrons we are far lower than that, we are clay, not capable of anything, except to just sit there, only the hand of the potter makes anything happen for us, we do not even have Free will, the Doctrine of Free will is Demonic and a Lie, as evidenced with Scripture in my new Thread in Controversial Theology, What are the Doctrines of Demons forewarned of in Timothy

I absolutely agree my friend. I get asked all the time if we are just robots or puppets, and I believe the only acceptable answer is:

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 26:19

We are pottery. We are His workmanship. Surely all the people of the earth is grass. We are a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. ALL IS VANITY.

It is very nice to meet you. It's a rare thing to find someone that is willing (ha!) to get rid of free will. Thank you and God bless you my friend.
 
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Love of Truth is correct by saying there is a Lake of Fire which is the second death so this is directly opposed to the idea of universal salvation. Jesus spoke of hell and so did the apostle Paul and warned people of this judgment. Salvation is only for the elect chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
These doctrines of election and reprobation are scriptural and many verses could be cited for support. The orthodox teaching was established by the Synod of Dordt back in 1618-1619

Having said this there is a misunderstand, I believe, in the nature of hell. The doctrine of hell is falsely taught today in most evangelical churches and in the Roman Catholic as well and perhaps even in the Greek Orthodox but I'm not certain about the last one.

The problem most evangelical churches have today is proving their claim that the souls of sinful men are immortal. We are told by many church leaders that the body is mortal because it is material and subject to decay and that the soul or spirit is immortal because it is immaterial and lives forever but I see no evidence for this in the Bible. True the soul or spirit is the immaterial part of man but why should that which is the principle cause of man's sin or offense somehow live an eternal existence in a place called hell? Is not the Lake of Fire the very picture of annihilation or God's wrath consuming and destroying both body and soul in what is called in Revelation the Second death? Even death and hell are said to finally be cast into the Lake of Fire suggesting that these two will someday cease to exist as realities. Death and hell are realities today but according to the Bible someday they will not be because there will only be the "new heavens and the new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13

It seems to me Adam and Eve were given conditional immortality on the condition that they obeyed God but once they sinned they forfeited the right to life and so died just as God said they would die. The process of death began immediately. They lost the Holy Spirit and so died spiritually and their fellowship with God was cut off. They lost their immortality. Adam lived a long physical life of 930 years and died physically, i. e. his spirit left his body and his body returned to dust. We know that God made atonement for our first parents and making them "coats of skins" and so granted them pardon and an inheritance in heaven by giving them eternal life but this did not nullify the fact of their physical death.
Consequently, all men as a result of Adam's fall are mortal and subject to death in its fullest sense (spiritual, physical and eternal) for the "wages of sin is DEATH." (Romans 6:23a) The Bible says the "soul that sinneth it shall die." (Ezek. 18:20) Here the word "soul" may be seen as a synecdoche in which a part is made to represent the whole, that is, both body and soul.

Even the Jews believed in annihilation as being taught from their O. T. scriptures and I can find many examples also.

Only when God works a miracle of grace in the life of His elect do these experience everlasting life and immortality. "But the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23b) It was the Devil's lie that man who not surely die if he sinned.

A plain and clear verse proving my contention that mortal men do not inherently possess immortality is found in 1 Timothy 6:15where we read in reference to God: "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

The idea of the soul's immortality is a Greek idea and not a Christian idea. This Greek idea made its way into the early church and so fostered this false teaching. It was later used by the churches to instill an unfounded fear not based on Biblical teaching and to manipulate and control people by offering them a way out of hell through indulgences that Tetzel cleverly but wickedly devised to enrich the Roman Catholic church.

The Reformed and Presbyterian churches along with most evangelical churches are not much better than the Romanists in this regard of teaching the immortality of the human soul even though they denounce the doctrine of purgatory they still teach what I believe is a false idea of the soul's immortality in the natural state. Since immortality only belongs to God as part of His eternal attribute and He gives this immortality to whomsoever He chooses it therefore can not be said to be the natural condition of sinners born into this world. So we see the whole false teaching of eternal punishment is misrepresenting God's attributes of love, mercy, goodness and kindness while trying to exalt His justice and righteousness and holiness but these are not defamed by the doctrine of annihilation. Ask yourself why can not God be just and holy and righteous by destroying the soul out of existence? Jesus said fear not him who can kill the body (man and Satan) but not the soul but fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell. Living forever in a place called hell is not eternal death but life in torment forever which serves no purpose or adds nothing to God's justice but does much harm to God's attributes of love and mercy. Why would God create people knowing they would never be saved because He didn't choose them to salvation and then damn them forever with eternal suffering and torment because they rejected Him. This idea is totally irrational is it not?
 
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2KnowHim

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Another reason that universalism is false is that it denies free will.

How free is the will of man when he is bound by sin?
How free is the will of man when he is bound by Righteousness?
Do we have a choice? Absolutely NOT.

If we do then what was the point of Jesus Christ being made manifest for us?
As we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bare the image of the heavenly.
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall All be made Alive.
 
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2KnowHim

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Here is my interpretation. I'd love to know what you think.
This is a Rock solid Foundation for all of Scripture, it makes everthing flow like Honey.
What Got me digging in Gen.1&2 most I think was these two vs. right here....

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

What is a plant before it is in the earth? Seed.
What is a herb of the field before it Grows? Seed.
What is The Word of God? Seed.
And where was the man from Gen.1:26 & 27? At this point 2:5 he didn't exsist yet.

Don't you love the way He hides these things from the prudent and the wise and reveals them unto babes?:clap:
 
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Blades

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When God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil did they have a choice between eating or not?

Adam and Eve had no chance of withstanding the Will of God for them, God deliberately created our Stubborn disobedient curiouse Human Nature for that reason, Just to be sure however he gave the serpent the power to deceive the Woman and placed the serpent in the garden with the Man and the Woman, there is no way Adam and Eve would be able to withstand Gods intention for them. We should never underestimate the Sovereign power and will of God
 
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2KnowHim

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Ask yourself why can not God be just and holy and righteous by destroying the soul out of existence?

Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
 
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ron4shua

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http://biblehub.com/isr/deuteronomy/30.htm
15“See, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil,

16in that I am commanding you today to love יהוה your Elohim, to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and יהוה your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you go to possess.

17“But if your heart turns away, and you do not obey, and shall be drawn away, and shall bow down to other mighty ones and serve them,

18“I have declared to you today that you shall certainly perish, you shall not prolong your days in the land which you are passing over the Yardĕn to enter and possess.

19“I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed,

20to love יהוה your Elohim, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, to give them.”
 
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ron4shua

" ... each in our own order " , Hallelu-YAH .
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http://biblehub.com/isr/luke/9.htm
23And He said to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his stake daily, and follow Me.

24“For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake shall save it.

25“For what is a man profited if he gains all the world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
23 Then de he said legō to pros all pas, “ If ei someone tis wants thelō to come erchomai after opisō me egō, let him deny arneomai himself heautou, and kai let him take airō up · ho his autos cross stauros daily kata hēmera, and kai let him follow akoloutheō me egō. 24 For gar whoever hos wants thelō to save sōzō · ho his autos life psychē will lose apollymi it autos, but de whoever hos loses apollymi · ho his autos life psychē for my egō sake, this houtos person will save sōzō it autos. 25 For gar what tis good will it do ōpheleō a person anthrōpos who has gained kerdainō the ho whole holos world kosmos but de has lost apollymi or ē forfeited his very self heautou?

wish
wiSH/
verb
3rd person present: wishes
  1. 1.
    feel or express a strong desire or hope for something that is not easily attainable; want something that cannot or probably will not happen.
    "we wished for peace"
    synonyms: desire, want, hope for, covet, dream of, long for, yearn for, crave, hunger for, lust after;More
    aspire to, be desirous of, set one's heart on, seek, fancy, hanker after;
    informalhave a yen for, itch for
    "I wished for power"
    • silently invoke a hope or desire, especially in a ritualized way.
      "I closed my eyes and wished"
    • feel or express a desire to do something.
      "they wish to become involved"
      synonyms: want, desire, feel inclined, feel like, care;More
      choose, please, think fit
      "they can do as they wish"
    • ask (someone) to do something or that (something) be done.
      "I wish it to be clearly understood"
    • express a desire for (the success or good fortune) of (someone).
      "they wish her every success"
      synonyms: bid
      "I wished him farewell"
    • hope that something unpleasant will happen to.
      "I would not wish it on the vilest soul"
noun
plural noun: wishes
  1. 1.
    a desire or hope for something to happen.
    "the union has reiterated its wish for an agreement"
    synonyms: desire, longing, yearning, inclination, urge, whim, craving, hunger;More
    hope, aspiration, aim, ambition, dream;
    informalhankering, yen, itch
    "his wish to own a Mercedes"
    • an expression of a desire or hope for something to happen, typically in the form of a request or instruction.
      "she must carry out her late father's wishes"
      synonyms: request, requirement, bidding, instruction, direction, demand, entreaty, order, command;More
      want, desire;
      will;
      literarybehest
      "her parents' wishes"
    • an invocation or recitation of a hope or desire.
      "he makes a wish"
    • an expression of a desire for someone's success or good fortune.
      "they had received kindness and good wishes from total strangers"
    • a thing or event that is or has been desired; an object of desire.
      "the petitioners eventually got their wish"
Origin
upload_2015-8-4_6-50-43.png

Old English wȳscan, of Germanic origin; related to German wünschen, also to ween and wont.
 
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LoveofTruth

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How free is the will of man when he is bound by sin?
How free is the will of man when he is bound by Righteousness?
Do we have a choice? Absolutely NOT.

If we do then what was the point of Jesus Christ being made manifest for us?
As we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bare the image of the heavenly.
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall All be made Alive.

The confusion you speak is great.

God said ,

Deuteronomy 30:19 >>
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I haveset before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: "

So yes people have a choice if God gives them this and he has

Also Paul is speaking to believers again not unbelievers Only those in Christ can have life and many die outside of Christ
 
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anonymouswho

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You error here the words eternal everlasting forever and ever never ending are exactly right. I can also show you that such words relate to God and the eternal life etc which are not going to ever end. Unless the eternal God in your mind all end? Or eternal life , and everlasting life will end?

Your false argument here is an old one and many have dealt with it over the centuries.
If everlasting life is forever then everlasting or eternal damnation is forever . And the fire shall never be quenched. never... It doesn't read the fire shall eventually be quenched

Hello my friend. If it's okay with you, i just want to address aion and aionios right now, since this is a big subject. Thank you for your time brother.

First, Yeshua never said never. He says the fire will "οὐ: not" be quenched. Not does not mean never, because never means "not ever". They mean two different things.

This verse also doesn't say never:

"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:" Mark 3:29

Those three words that say "hath never forgivenness" in the Greek are:

οκ (no) ἔχει (has)ἄφεσιν (forgiveness) ες (to) τὸν (the) αών (aion: age, eon)

There's three extra words that don't even get translated.

Tell me my friend, does the cares of eternity "choke the word"?

"And the cares of this world (aion), and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful." Mark 4:19

καὶ αἱ μέριμναι τοῦ ανος καὶἀπάτη τοῦ πλούτου καὶ αἱ περὶ τὰ λοιπὰ ἐπιθυμίαι εἰσπορευόμεναι συνπνίγουσιν τὸν λόγον, καὶ ἄκαρπος γίνεται.

Is this a mistranslation?

"Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (aion)." Acts 3:21

ὃν δεῖ οὐρανὸν μὲν δέξασθαι ἄχρι χρόνων ἀποκαταστάσεως πάντων ὧν ἐλάλησεν ὁ Θεὸς διὰ στόματος τῶν ἁγίων ἀπ’ ανος αὐτοῦ προφητῶν.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what isthat good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2

καὶ μὴ συνσχηματίζεσθε τῷ ανι τούτῳ, ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοός, εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τί τὸ θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ, τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐάρεστον καὶ τέλειον.

"Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Corinthians 1:20

ποῦ σοφός; ποῦ γραμματεύ α νι; ποῦ συνζητητὴς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου; οὐχὶ ἐμώρανεν ὁ θεὸς τὴν σοφίαν τοῦ κόσμου;

Why are these verses not translated forever? How can we make sense of any of these verses with a perspective of forever?

Now here is my favorite one, and it's hidden in Romans:

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began (αωνίοις: aionios)" Romans 16:25

This verse doesn't say aion like the rest of the verses. It says aionios, as in ζωὴν αώνιον (life eonion) or κόλασιν αώνιον (chastisement eonion; or rather chastisement unto the age).

(Note: chastisement is not the same as punishment. Punishment implies it is for the punishers benefit, but chastisement is always for the benefit of the one being chastised. Eternal chastisement benefits nobody.)

If aionios must always, under every circumstance, mean eternal (lest we lose "our" eternal life) then what was Paul talking about? Has it been kept secret since eternity? When did eternity happen?

Here is another one, and this one is a pretty big deal. First, I can't say for sure who this verse is speaking about, but since it does say τούτου (this) then I will accept the orthodox interpretation for now.

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 2 Corinthians 4:4

ἐν οἷς ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων εἰς τὸ μὴ αὐγάσαι τὸν φωτισμὸν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ Θεοῦ.

If this verse is about Satan, then is he the god of forever? If this is God (2 Thessalonians 2:11) then why has He blinded unbelievers? To even ask a question about this based on Orthodox interpretation would be blasphemy.

(I would like to discuss this with my fellow Universalist though. Do you think this is the devil or God?)

Ephesians is one of my favorite Epistles. Paul lays out the entire Gospel right from chapter 1. But there is another reason I love this letter. Why have translators rendered ανος as world, course, ages, eternal, beginning of the world, and world without end, all in a single letter?

"Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world (ανος), but also in that which is to come" Ephesians 1:21 (how is there a forever to come?)

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world (ανος), according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience" Ephesians 2:2

"That in the ages (ανος) to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:7

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world (ανος) hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 3:9 (when was the beginning of eternity?

"According to the eternal (ανος) purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord" Ephesians 3:11

"Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages (γενεὰς: generations), world without end (τοῦανος τν αώνων). Amen." Ephesians 3:21

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world (ανος), against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12

What more do you need to see to know that it is impossible for aion or aionios to "always" mean eternal. I don't believe it ever means eternal. Just because it is applied to God or our hope does not mean that it must mean eternal. We have several other verses that tell us we shall all live forever. We have other verses that tell us God has no beginning nor end. He is the God of the Ages! He alone has made all Ages and He has set their determined times. Aion and aionios are completely different subjects.

I'd like to show you Jude 1:6 really quick:

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting (ἀϊδίοις) chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude 1:6

This verse says ϊδίοις (aidios), and according to all concordances, aidios means "eternal" and nothing else. We could waste time and break down the etymology of the word, but there's a much quicker way to prove this does not mean eternal. Notice the last part of this sentence "unto the judgment of the great day". If aidios mean eternal, then how can it last "unto" anything?

Why doesn't gotquestions or CARM bring up these verses? CARM at least brings up Romans 16:25, but then says it's based on "context". What about the context of all of Scripture? What about the context of life and the fact that none of us asked to be here?

We can discuss עוֹלָם (olam: Hebrew equivalent of aion) if you'd like. But at this point it really shouldn't matter.

Let's say aion and aionios can "sometimes" mean eternal, but obviously not in all cases. If this is the case, then if given the choice between "eternal punishment" or "chastisement unto the age", which one is Good? Which one makes the entire Scriptures make perfect sense?

"Prove ALL things; hold fast that which is GOOD." 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Thank you my friend and may God bless you unto the ages of the ages!
 
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2KnowHim

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Deuteronomy 30:19 >>
I
call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I haveset before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: "

Why are you quoting the Law to me, when, In Christ it is fulfilled? For the law was not given to a righteous man, but to sinners.
And do you Really believe "You" made a choice for Him? Without His Spirit Quickening you first?

Also Paul is speaking to believers again not unbelievers Only those in Christ can have life and many die outside of Christ

Paul is also the one who says, That we all died in Adam too. We were dead in Adam, but now we live in Christ, and that has NOTHING to do with you my friend choosing Him.
For it is by Grace we are saved, and that NOT of Ourselves it is the gift of God.
 
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anonymouswho

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The doctrine of "free will" places man on the throne of power and authority in his own mind

Right my brother. I thought you didn't believe in free will, but I wasn't completely sure.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the TEMPLE of God, shewing himself that he is God." 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Who's the man of sin?

"For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

What is the temple of God?

"Know ye not that ye are the TEMPLE of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" 1 Corinthians 3:16

Who sits and opposes himself above all that is called God, so that he himself sits as a god?

Free will

Thank you my brother. I thought you and 2KnowHim didn't believe in free will, but I wasn't 100% sure. It's tough to get rid of, but once you do, we no longer have anything to worry about.

God bless you.
 
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anonymouswho

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This is a Rock solid Foundation for all of Scripture, it makes everthing flow like Honey.
What Got me digging in Gen.1&2 most I think was these two vs. right here....

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

What is a plant before it is in the earth? Seed.
What is a herb of the field before it Grows? Seed.
What is The Word of God? Seed.
And where was the man from Gen.1:26 & 27? At this point 2:5 he didn't exsist yet.

Don't you love the way He hides these things from the prudent and the wise and reveals them unto babes?:clap:

That is pretty awesome. I never made the seed connection before. It amazes me how the secular world insists that these were stupid, primitive men, and yet the things hidden in the Word are so deep and true that it would be impossible for any man to have put them there themselves.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

Paul is also the one who says, That we all died in Adam too. We were dead in Adam, but now we live in Christ, and that has NOTHING to do with you my friend choosing Him.
For it by Grace we are saved, and that NOT of Ourselves it is the gift of God.

I could not agree more. Thank you my very good friend and God bless you.
 
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anonymouswho

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Gods ways are just too high for us friends, he is way ahead of us, and I give thanks for it, I don't know about any of you, but I am just glad that I can rest in him, that he was always in control, and yet he was able to give me perception of that.

Wow, you guys never cease to amaze me. I was just talking to a Deist not too long ago about how we enter His rest. The guy was afraid of living forever, and He said death is his eternal rest. Believers die to this world and we live through Messiah:

"For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." Colossians 3:3

"For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his." Hebrews 4:10

Therefore, as our Lord so beautifully and poetically told us:

"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matthew 6:25

Thank you my friend and God bless you.
 
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"For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his." Hebrews 4:10

Yes, in
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

These are "The Works of God" that we are to enter into, that causes us to Rest, or should I say gives Rest to our Souls.
It's His Works, not ours.
 
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