Anglicans stole our stuff!!!! ??????

Rhamiel · Aug 3, 2015

for the OP

the Anglican Church and the Catholic Church have over 1,000 years of shared history together
so it makes sense that we would have a lot in common

as far as Protestant denominations go, we have far more in common with Anglicans then we do with most other ones

Anhelyna · Aug 4, 2015

I don't have an Ambassador's Hat to throw into the ring here. I have no official or semi-official standing here , but I'm asking for your indulgence now.

I'm going to speak now as a CF Ambassador to all who have posted on this thread .

This thread is going downhill rapidly , we have a very very new and enthusiastic member posting questions and statements and he's asking for things to be explained.

His knowledge of where traditions [ please note the use of lower case letters ] have come from is less than perfect. traditions [ yes I've used a lower case 't' here deliberately disobeying all rules of grammar ] are not belonging to one group and not another , borders get a little rough round the edge and things spread in all directions. We are all guilty of believing that things belong to 'us' and not others , and that others have no right to them.

Please could we all post a bit more charitably here ?

Colin · Aug 4, 2015

I had an Anglican friend , now deceased , who had a great devotion to Mary .

He was present in Rome in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary .

He regularly went on pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham .

He regarded himself , to use his own words , as " a son of Mary " .

"By coincidence" he was born on the feast of the Annunciation and died on the feast of the Immaculate Conception .

The tenor of some of the posts on this thread are insulting to his memory , and to many Anglicans .

Catherineanne · Aug 4, 2015

Colin said:
I had an Anglican friend , now deceased , who had a great devotion to Mary .

He was present in Rome in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary .

He regularly went on pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham .

He regarded himself , to use his own words , as " a son of Mary " .

"By coincidence" he was born on the feast of the Annunciation and died on the feast of the Immaculate Conception .

The tenor of some of the posts on this thread are insulting to his memory , and to many Anglicans .

Thank you.

I am a member of the Confraternity of the Rosary. I did not steal anything.

Anhelyna · Aug 4, 2015

I also came from the Anglican Church .

I am making one last appeal to everyone Catholics [ of all varieties ], Lutherans , Anglicans who have posted in this thread from its beginning

PLEASE CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY AND READ AT LEAST TWICE MORE BEFORE HITTING THE POST REPLY BUTTON.

This is now in the period of the Dormition Fast in the Eastern Churches - that great Feast when Our Blessed Lady left this earthly life and was taken up to Heaven. Please think of how Our Blessed Mother would regard some of the behaviour on this thread. Let us all prepare to celebrate Her Feast.

RaylightI · Aug 4, 2015

The Virgin Mary gave the Rosary to all the believers. She didn't give terms and conditions where someone has to sign before having a rosary. Saying that the rosary is only for Catholics is VERY childish. If we will go by that logic, the Jewish people can accuse us -Christians- of stealing the Old Testament. Because God gave the OT to the people of Israel.

MarkRohfrietsch · Aug 4, 2015

Theatreguy18 said:
I know what ur say

just asking if ur already confessional why not come back home to Rome and be united in the Catholic Church

The big issue remains; papal supremacy and infallibility. Further explanation, may be found in the "Book of Concord" (unaltered 1580 edition).

ebia · Aug 4, 2015

Rhamiel said:
Pope Leo XIII ruled all Anglican orders null and void
he did not leave exceptions

stop trying to undermine Catholic teaching

"depends on who you ask"
it does not depend on who you ask, it depends on the authority of the Pope

I mean, could you find Catholics who do not agree with this?
sure

but I am sure I could find many unorthodox ideas being spouted by people who profess to be Anglicans
this does not mean that those ideas are necessarily "Anglican"

Vatican official teaching is consistent that anglican orders are not valid.
But what exactly is broken about them - what the problem is - varies according to who you ask. The very same Cardinal Ratzinger who made it clear that the conclusion of Leo's Bull applies steers very clear of the reasoning in the Bull and gives very different reasons himself.

I've got no intention of breaking the rules by contradicting Catholic teaching by debating the assertion "Anglican orders are invalid". Though the current Pope didn't seem to worry too much about that when he was archbishop. But simply point out that what exactly is wrong with them is not so fixed.

Tallguy88 · Aug 4, 2015

Rhamiel said:
Pope Leo XIII ruled all Anglican orders null and void
he did not leave exceptions

stop trying to undermine Catholic teaching

"depends on who you ask"
it does not depend on who you ask, it depends on the authority of the Pope

I mean, could you find Catholics who do not agree with this?
sure

but I am sure I could find many unorthodox ideas being spouted by people who profess to be Anglicans
this does not mean that those ideas are necessarily "Anglican"

I think he means the the reasons for the orders being invalid depends who you ask, not the fact of invalidity itself. If I recall correctly, Pope Leo and Pope Benedict XVI used completely different, and perhaps somewhat contradictory reasoning, to come to that same conclusion.

Don't ask me to elaborate. It's been too long since I rrad abut it. Maybe ebia can clarify.

Tallguy88 · Aug 4, 2015

To the OP, there's nothing wrong with Protestants praying the Rosary, at least not from the Catholic perspective. It is a private devotion to Mary, no one is required to say it and no one is forbidden from saying it. If anything, I would expect Catholics to be happy that Protestants want to get closer to Mary using Catholic traditions.

Here's a similar thread on CAF: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=110021

Reader Antonius · Aug 4, 2015

Rhamiel said:
it is my understanding that the break is not only from the physical break in lines of succession
but also a break in leaving the ancient teachings of the Church and the denial of the Mass as a true sacrifice?
so they could have a cardinal ordain them, it would not matter because they are not trying to have the same thing as what the sacrament was made for

This is quite true. The defect of intention is actually the major impediment spoken of by the Church's teaching authority.

Theatreguy18 · Aug 4, 2015

Anhelyna said:
I don't have an Ambassador's Hat to throw into the ring here. I have no official or semi-official standing here , but I'm asking for your indulgence now.

I'm going to speak now as a CF Ambassador to all who have posted on this thread .

This thread is going downhill rapidly , we have a very very new and enthusiastic member posting questions and statements and he's asking for things to be explained.

His knowledge of where traditions [ please note the use of lower case letters ] have come from is less than perfect. traditions [ yes I've used a lower case 't' here deliberately disobeying all rules of grammar ] are not belonging to one group and not another , borders get a little rough round the edge and things spread in all directions. We are all guilty of believing that things belong to 'us' and not others , and that others have no right to them.

Please could we all post a bit more charitably here ?

Ur right we are perfectly capable to be civil to each other

Theatreguy18 · Aug 4, 2015

Catherineanne said:
Hahahahahahahahaha!

You can't be serious?

Good grief.

Dead serious but stole is a harsh word borrow or maybe kept is the better phrasing

Anhelyna · Aug 4, 2015

I know we are all perfectly capable of being civil to each other.

I'm actually asking everyone -- that means me , you , Knightwolflord, Tallguy88 , ebia and indeed everyone who has posted on this thread ,-- to be civil in our posting our responses to other posters

Albion · Aug 4, 2015

Since there not united with us y should they get our stuff....

Well, we had all that stuff before Rome broke with the Church of England, you know. It's not as though someone said of the things you referred to "Rome has X so why don't we introduce it into our ranks, too."

(Yeh, I know that the thread by now is way beyond the stage for making this basic point.)

Colin · Aug 4, 2015

Theatreguy18 said:
He was the one w

he was the one who told Rome to shove off so that's why I would say they broke from Rome

Can you be more specific about the relationship between King Henry VIII and the Bishop of Rome ?

Theatreguy18 · Aug 4, 2015

Colin said:
Can you be more specific about the relationship between King Henry VIII and the Bishop of Rome ?

I believe Henry was once a strong catholic man but after being refused an annulment by the pope he decided to split there where of course other issues involved but I believe the annulment was the main issue that split the Church of England from Rome

Colin · Aug 4, 2015

Theatreguy18 said:
I believe Henry was once a strong catholic man but after being refused an annulment by the pope he decided to split there where of course other issues involved but I believe the annulment was the main issue that split the Church of England from Rome

So are you saying that the Church of England existed prior to the break with the Bishop of Rome ?

Theatreguy18 · Aug 4, 2015

Colin said:
So are you saying that the Church of England existed prior to the break with the Bishop of Rome ?

No that was poor wording on my part I apologize

Rhamiel · Aug 4, 2015

Colin said:
So are you saying that the Church of England existed prior to the break with the Bishop of Rome ?

no, the Church IN England existed prior to the break
Canterbery was not even a Patriarchy right?

it is kind of like the US Civil war
the southern states existed prior to the break with the Union
but them being organized into the Confederacy was made up in the 1860's

back to the OP
you should NEVER discourage non-Catholics from praying the Rosary
our Lady has brought home so many people to the Church through the Rosary

Anglicans stole our stuff!!!! ??????

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