Suggestions - patristics for a Protestant?

~Anastasia~

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I wonder if I could ask for suggestions for someone? My husband, in fact. He's gotten very dissatisfied with Protestant worship (though he does not embrace the Liturgy) but is very, very dissatisfied with infrequent communion and the fact that most denominations don't put enough importance upon it. (Though he does not have exactly a Eucharistic understanding either.)

He's really at loose ends and is seeking a lot - has been for some time. It has been years without him having a church home. He gravitates to Baptist services, and somewhat conservative Pentecostal-type podcasts (spiritual gifts but no tongues).

I don't want to discuss the Theotokos, or icons, etc. with him right now. But something about the Sacraments - particularly the Eucharist - might be good. Also a better understanding of the Atonement from an Orthodox perspective would be excellent, I think (or maybe I just think so because it was such an eye-opener for me and one of the biggest draws into Orthodoxy, to understand God, sin, salvation, restoration, mankind, creation, and all of this from an Orthodox point of view).

Last week I suggested he read St. Irenaeus, just because he is St. John's disciple, and I thought a very immediate source would be a good place to start - he's much more likely to appreciate early works than those from later (that whole "the Church lost it's way for over 1,000 years" thing). He did try to read Irenaeus on ccel, but had some trouble with the language (English is not his first langage - he understands it well but the archaic forms are not always easy for him) - I'm not sure which piece he tried to read.

Something online would be ideal. I can't really order anything new for a couple of months right now, unless it's maybe only a few dollars.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks SO much. :)
 

~Anastasia~

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St Ignatius is perhaps better. Though you may have an archaic translation there as well. What language is his native tongue? There may be translations into that.

My brain is obviously scrambled. St. Ignatius is who I MEANT to suggest to him. Thank you, gzt.

He actually does better in English (his native language is Vietnamese). But writing that is archaic, or very convoluted, or uses many very uncommon words is sometimes not the easiest thing for him to deal with.
 
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prodromos

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gzt

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Apparently there is a fairly recent translation in a volume called "Ignatius of Antioch & Polycarp of Smyrna"

I have not seen it, so I cannot comment on the quality. It also contains an introduction and commentary by a Presbyterian and I cannot comment on the quality of that, either. But it will be much less archaic.
 
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Apparently there is a fairly recent translation in a volume called "Ignatius of Antioch & Polycarp of Smyrna"

I have not seen it, so I cannot comment on the quality. It also contains an introduction and commentary by a Presbyterian and I cannot comment on the quality of that, either. But it will be much less archaic.

If it's good, I would like to read it myself. :) Which I will say, I'm not overly familiar with Patristics as in who said what to whom, but hopefully I can at least recognize if it's true to the faith.

My inter-library loan privileges in another district should be active again right away (one perk of being a teacher) so perhaps I can borrow it - at least if/when it's six months old. Thank you for the suggestion!
 
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~Anastasia~

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For St Justin you will have to curate excerpts - he has a lot of material, most of it not really relevant to his interests.

Very true. The sections that are relevant are some of the most explicit sections depicting early liturgy and practices with the Eucharist.

Thank you both! I'll start looking into that. I think it might be very helpful!
 
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~Anastasia~

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http://www.myriobiblos.gr/patrology_en.html
Haven't actually had a look through here but have found excellent articles elsewhere on the site

http://www.intratext.com/BPI/
Many of these are Latin texts but some are English. The intratext library also hosts The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos Ware as well as a number of other Orthodox publications.
Thank you for the resources! I should have Bp. Kallistos Ware's book, but I'd have to double-check my margin notes. It was one of the first things I read, so my notes might be a hindrance. Then again, he might also appreciate that I did go in with my eyes wide open, asking questions.

I thank you for the links!
 
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~Anastasia~

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St Athanasius, On The Incarnation. It also has a lovely intro by C.S. Lewis.
Its also available online all over the place.

Thank you. That crossed my mind. It was probably the first suggestion someone made to me. I remember how much trouble I had understanding it though. But, I could use a re-read and I'm sure it will be very different for me now, and perhaps if we discuss it in sections. Who knows, he might find it less difficult than I did. His theology is actually quite Orthodox in many areas. Believe it or not, he himself helped me to understand and accept many things about Orthodoxy, though the parts that have been drilled into him by his Reformed pastor he clings quite strongly to. But much of his theology came from just reading the Bible on his own (his normal rule is to read it once a year, so he's read it through quite a few times now) ... I thank God for all of this. I think a little Patristic understanding will, God willing, do wonders for him.

Thank you for the suggestion. :)
 
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All4Christ

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Note that the liturgical structure is not completely formalized in his description, but it does speak of a liturgical form and makes it very clear that the early Church believed that the Eucharist was not just bread and wine, but was truly the flesh and blood of Christ. It also refers to the 'regenerating waters of baptism'.

No one may share the Eucharist with us unless he believes that what we teach is true, unless he is washed in the regenerating waters of baptism for the remission of his sins, and unless he lives in accordance with the principles given us by Christ.

We do not consume the eucharistic bread and wine as if it were ordinary food and drink, for we have been taught that as Jesus Christ our Savior became a man of flesh and blood by the power of the Word of God, so also the food that our flesh and blood assimilates for its nourishment becomes the flesh and blood of the incarnate Jesus by the power of his own words contained in the prayer of thanksgiving.

The apostles, in their recollections, which are called gospels, handed down to us what Jesus commanded them to do. They tell us that he took bread, gave thanks and said: Do this in memory of me. This is my body. In the same way he took the cup, he gave thanks and said: This is my blood. The Lord gave this command to them alone. Ever since then we have constantly reminded one another of these things. The rich among us help the poor and we are always united. For all that we receive we praise the Creator of the universe through his Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit.

On Sunday we have a common assembly of all our members, whether they live in the city or the outlying districts. The recollections of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as there is time. When the reader has finished, the president of the assembly speaks to us; he urges everyone to imitate the examples of virtue we have heard in the readings. Then we all stand up together and pray.

On the conclusion of our prayer, bread and wine and water are brought forward. The president offers prayers and gives thanks to the best of his ability, and the people give assent by saying, “Amen”. The eucharist is distributed, everyone present communicates, and the deacons take it to those who are absent.

The wealthy, if they wish, may make a contribution, and they themselves decide the amount. The collection is placed in the custody of the president, who uses it to help the orphans and widows and all who for any reason are in distress, whether because they are sick, in prison, or away from home. In a word, he takes care of all who are in need.

We hold our common assembly on Sunday because it is the first day of the week, the day on which God put darkness and chaos to flight and created the world, and because on that same day our savior Jesus Christ rose from the dead. For he was crucified on Friday and on Sunday he appeared to his apostles and disciples and taught them the things that we have passed on for your consideration.

From The Celebration of The Eucharist in the first apology in defense of the Christians (Ch. 66-67)

Secondly...note the interpretation being 'reborn'

Through Christ we received new life and we consecrated ourselves to God. I will explain the way in which we did this. Those who believe what we teach is true and who give assurance of their ability to live according to that teaching are taught to ask God’s forgiveness for their sins by prayer and fasting and we pray and fast with them. We then lead them to a place where there is water and they are reborn in the same way as we were reborn; that is to say, they are washed in the water in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the whole universe, of our Savior Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit. This is done because Christ said: Unless you are born again you will not enter the kingdom of heaven, and it is impossible for anyone, having once been born, to re-enter his mother’s womb.

From Ch. 61

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

Check out 61, and 65-67..also, one sentence is relevant in Ch. 15 about being a disciple of Christ since childhood and staying pure. That part isn't explicit, but is an interesting phrase to note.
 
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Note that the liturgical structure is not completely formalized in his description, but it does speak of a liturgical form and makes it very clear that the early Church believed that the Eucharist was not just bread and wine, but was truly the flesh and blood of Christ. It also refers to the 'regenerating waters of baptism'.



From The Celebration of The Eucharist in the first apology in defense of the Christians (Ch. 66-67)

Secondly...note the interpretation being 'reborn'



From Ch. 61

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

Check out 61, and 65-67..also, one sentence is relevant in Ch. 15 about being a disciple of Christ since childhood and staying pure. That part isn't explicit, but is an interesting phrase to note.

Thank you SO much, Laura, for pointing out these particular passages. This is indeed very helpful. I hadn't read them myself, though I remember similar words to some of this in the Didache. Not much of it is unfamiliar ... it seems the same instructions are given over and over, among many writings. Imagine that. ;)

This will be perfect though, thank you so much. He does question the set order of service, etc. (the Liturgy) and this is a pretty good description. Except of course we pray more than that, and sing - but that is elsewhere in Scripture and writings as well.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I would add the Didache. while not included in Scripture, it is from the 1st century. and it is short and not too heavy.

Thank you, Matt. I need to re-read it myself - it's been a while. But I think it would be a perfect introduction, maybe. Like a door opening, perhaps. Thank you. :)
 
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~Anastasia~

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Does he like audiobooks?

Saint Ignatius Of Antioch:Epistles of Ignatius http://librivox.bookdesign.biz/book/2279

Thank you for the link! It actually took me to Shakespearan sonnets ... I think the last number of the URL didn't get included. But it was easy enough to search for Ignatius, and there is more there as well.

He does like podcasts, and listens to Scripture on CD on a loop. I'm not sure what his preference is - he might think more deeply when he reads? - but having this will be helpful. I'm listening myself right now. I am going to see if there is a way to get it into my phone so I can listen while I work. :)
 
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