Why do we translate Jehovah in the Bible?

Very simple. Jehovah is a possible transliteration of the Jewish tetragrammaton YHWH or JHVH, which is actually unpronouncable in most languages. It is like certain Bohemian names. My lawyers last name is Trca. Try prouncing that.

So, what do translators do? First, they could transliterate it as suggested by the JW's. However, that leads to some interesting dilemmas. In the Old Testament God is referred to by many names other than YHWH or JHVH. For example, the simplest is El. Based on that we also have Elohim. If we were to use the transliteration principle only, then it would seem that the Old Testament is talking about a lot of different gods rather than one God who is described by various names. If you take the JW argument to its end, you would have polytheism with, possibly, Jehovah being the biggest and best God, someone on the order of Jupiter in Roman mytholody or Zeus in Greek mythology.

sickntired771 said:

A Jehovas Witness was telling me that it is an insult to God that his name used hundreds of times in the Bible has been changed to Lord or God when he expressly said his name was Jehovah and we should use it.

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If this were true, then why does the New Testament say "Lord" instead of YHWH when it quotes the Old Testament?

Why was this name changed in every non JW version of the Bible?

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It wasn't: There are versions that use it like the YLT.

Cappadocious said:

If this were true, then why does the New Testament say "Lord" instead of YHWH when it quotes the Old Testament?


It wasn't: There are versions that use it like the YLT.

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The New Testament does not use the Hebrew tetragrammaton when referring to God. Therefore, the Greek words (theos or kyrios) are translated as God or Lord, which is what they mean. I suppose one could transliterate them as Theos and Kyrios, but certainly not as Jehovah.

You are correct about certain English translations which do use Jehovah. Prior to the JW's it was not a big deal as to whether one transliterated or translated the tetragrammaton.

bbbbbbb said:

The New Testament does not use the Hebrew tetragrammaton when referring to God. Therefore, the Greek words (theos or kyrios) are translated as God or Lord, which is what they mean. I suppose one could transliterate them as Theos and Kyrios, but certainly not as Jehovah.

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I think you misunderstood me; I wasn't referring to English translations of the New Testament. Rather, Kyrios is how YHWH and Adonai are rendered in Greek in the New Testament when it quotes the Old Testament. In other words, the New Testament says Kyrios (Lord) instead of YHWH when it quotes Old Testament passages that contain YHWH. Get what I mean?

Here is an example. When Psalm 110 says "the LORD said to my Lord", LORD = YHWH.

However in the New Testament, it reads:

...λέγει ὁ Κύριος τῷ Κυρίῳ μου...

Thus, the New Testament itself uses Lord in place of YHWH.

So if the New Testament can do it, we can as well.

1. The word is not Jehovah. It's YHWH. Early Hebrew was written without any indication of the vowels. Traditionally, it was never pronounced - but when read aloud Adonai replaced it. And so when vowel marks were added to the text they used the vowels from Adonai with the consonants YHWH. But that was never a word. And it's a /y/ sound, not /dʒ/ - Early Modern English used J for that sound. Similarly /w/ verses /v/. So Jehovah is flat out wrong: the vowels from another word entirely, and two of the four consonants wrong.

2. Because of the history of not saying it, we aren't quite sure what the vowels actually are, though Yahweh is the most likely.

3. Most Christians choose to respect the tradition of not generally saying it.

4. A few translations do preserve it, eg Yahweh in the New Jerusalem, bible.

5. As noted by others, the New Testament writers avoid it when referring to Old Testament texts, going with Kyrios, the Greek translation of Adonai.

There would be many problems with this line of reasoning. The first is that Jehovah is not what God's name in Hebrew (YHWH) is and it is not even the correct pronunciation of these 4 letters. The next is that in Hebrew, the Bible also uses generic terms for God so they would have to say the untranslated text is insulting to God. This would mean God insults himself and he must condemn himself based upon what the "all-knowing" Jehovah's Witnesses say. The New Testament writers also refer to God in a generic manner so they would have to condemn them as well.

So in the end we just have to ask ourselves who are we going to trust. Do we trust God and the inspired writers of the Bible, or do we trust the Jehovah's Witnesses?

sickntired771 said:

A Jehovas Witness was telling me that it is an insult to God that his name used hundreds of times in the Bible has been changed to Lord or God when he expressly said his name was Jehovah and we should use it.

Why was this name changed in every non JW version of the Bible?

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Hi,
This happenened to me. A Jehovah's Witness started talking to me, about this issue, but I went there with God's help.
I was not there for her to lecture me, rather I was there socially. For some reason she decided to start talking about the name of Jehovah. I asked her why. She did not respond, if I recall correctly. She kept talking and talking. I then asked her: "Are you trying to tell me, that you cannot know God, if you do not know how to say His name?" She, stopped and said, yes.
I listened and listened until she was done. Then, I merely thought of the definition of Jehovah, that I had come across in a dictionary. I was going to discuss that next with her.
There was no need to do that, as she on her own launched in the letters referring to God. "Of course in those days..." she went on, " there were no vowels between the consonants, so we don't know how to pronounce His Name."
STUNNED. I was stunned. "You can't know anything about God, if you don't know how to say His Name. You don't know how to say His Name. You don't know anything about God. You just spent twenty minutes to tell me, that you don't know anything about God."
I was so surprised that I stood up, and my head was spinning, a little. Why, would anyone, and a very senior member of the Jehovah's Witnesses at age 90, or so spend twenty minutes telling me they know nothing about God?
Supposedly the reason, they put His Name, back into the Bible, is for the reason she said. Yet, that monk, who initially translated YHWH, to Jehovah rather than Yahweh, ir even some other set of vowels, was that he made a mistake a hundred years ago or so. That is what my dictionary said.
Also, in Proverbs it is said, for God to conceal a thing, is God being God. And if God really cared that much about the pronunciation of His Name, He probably would have said so, repeatedly and clearly.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

sickntired771 said:

I understand that the Hebrew letters don't correspond with Jehova and we aren't sure how to pronounce as YHWH or Yahweh but shouldn't the English Bible's translate the Hebrew directly and not try to find other words for it? If this is a name it should spell YHWH or Yahweh. We didn't change anyone elses name to Prophet or whatever we always translate their name, why different on God?

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Because the apostles do so?
Because the LXX did so, from which the NT authors quote?
Because there's a long tradition of not saying it?
Because YHWH can't be a word in English and Yarweh might be wrong?
Because many names we use a translation, not a transliteration for?

katerinah1947 said:

Supposedly the reason, they put His Name, back into the Bible, is for the reason she said. Yet, that monk, who initially translated YHWH, to Jehovah rather than Yahweh, ir even some other set of vowels, was that he made a mistake a hundred years ago or so. That is what my dictionary said.

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You might want to check the accuracy of your dictionary. It's a bit more complicated than that, and not a mistake as such. And rather longer ago

ebia said:

You might want to check the accuracy of your dictionary. It's a bit more complicated than that, and not a mistake as such. And rather longer ago

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Hi,
Well I wasn't going to before you spoke. I wll now.... I just did. What a mess: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah
Yes, knowing the names of The Trinity, would be nice. However, we do seem to know what They did. I think I like the fact that we do know what They did. It seems God did want us to know that. I guess maybe, that is enough for now.
I did like the fact that Jesus said that He is talked about in the Old Testament. I did find Him being talked about in Psalms 2. It seems His Dad, gave Him us as His inheritance there. That is if, The Lord in Psalms 2 is God The Father, and my Lord is Jesus.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,
Well I wasn't going to before you spoke. I wll now.... I just did. What a mess: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah

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Language often is.

Let's not forget that "Jesus" is the result of his name being transliterated into Greek, then from Greek into English, and then acquiring an initial /dʒ/ sound in exactly the same way.

Or that Mary is the result of Miriam transliterated into Greek (Maria) and then English (Mary).

ebia said:

Language often is.

Let's not forget that "Jesus" is the result of his name being transliterated into Greek, then from Greek into English, and then acquiring an initial /dʒ/ sound in exactly the same way.

Or that Mary is the result of Miriam transliterated into Greek (Maria) and then English (Mary).

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Hi,

As long as you are still on the 'phone' and you have some expertise that I do not possess, in normal language explanations, what does YHWH mean?

Please the same question for Jesus. Although I have heard the last one is The Lord is with us, and the former I have heard is 'I am who I shall prove to be.', you seem schooled in this, and I have not been.

Is there really a clear answer to one or both of these, or is this another case of "Langauge often is.... a mess."?

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

As long as you are still on the 'phone' and you have some expertise that I do not possess, in normal language explanations, what does YHWH mean?

Please the same question for Jesus. Although I have heard the last one is The Lord is with us, and the former I have heard is 'I am who I shall prove to be.', you seem schooled in this, and I have not been.

Is there really a clear answer to one or both of these, or is this another case of "Langauge often is.... a mess."?

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

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There's never absolute certainty since one is trying to work backwards to derivations that happened way back ...

YHWH is most likely "I am / I was / I will be". (It's tense-less)

Joshua/Jesus most likely "YHWH saves".

(Emmanuel is God with us)

ebia said:

There's never absolute certainty since one is trying to work backwards to derivations that happened way back ...

YHWH is most likely "I am / I was / I will be". (It's tense-less)

Joshua/Jesus most likely "YHWH saves".

(Emmanuel is God with us)

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Hi,

If I can now verify your lack of certainty answer, then I will take great comfort in this. It is how a person acts, therefore feels, but feels with content to me that matters. I rename some people continuously and can't remember the names of others, as their names do not fit them, to me. I also remember things about people, descriptively, rather than their names. And since people are so interesting to me, sometimes if they need me to remember their names, then some interesting fact is removed to do that.

Typically, no one cares when I tell them of how I know them, they no longer care if I remember their name or not, especially I think when I refer to them as a feature of their core identity.

It is odd. It is the way of me.

A characteristic name of God The Father to me, is a relationship name. It is the same with Jesus, to me, and with The Holy Spirit to me. However, that relationship name to me, is my personal relationship with Him, at the time.

Historically, He was just Father, and rather mysterious. Jesus was Jesus, also historically to me. The Holy Spirit was very hard for me to understand, historically.

Now, all my names for Them are persoanal, and descriptive. Mary, is that to me, and if I have not been deceived, so are the few angels that I have met this year, and the few Saints, but one also of many years ago. Another Saint to me is felt, relationally, has been there always, but I did not know it at first.

God The Father, to others, would be I Am, who you shall experience Me as.

Jesus, to others would be Savior to most, but the One Who Loved His Father to me. To some, He is their spouse, historically. He is also to me, what my relationship is to Him now.

The Holy Spirit, I see as love, times love, personality wise. He is normally not felt as He sets aside, His Personality, to work, using love to do that. He to me would be a word that signifies love, times love, as that is how I perceive His actions.

So, I Am who I shall prove to be, also fits for me, God The Father in action.

Most people, even Jesus seems to let us call God The Father by relationship names such as Our Father.

I guess if a specific name that is unchangeable, is not how God wants to be referred to as, I rather like that, but if He has a Specific name, this too I would like to know. It does seem rather respectful. Only, I don't make the rules.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

ebia said:

The word is not Jehovah. It's YHWH.

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Correct.

sickntired771 said:

A Jehovas Witness was telling me that it is an insult to God that his name used hundreds of times in the Bible has been changed to Lord or God when he expressly said his name was Jehovah and we should use it.

Why was this name changed in every non JW version of the Bible?

Click to expand...

There is no "J" sound in hebrew so Jehovah cannot be the name of God as a typical english speaker would pronoun it. "J" can have a "Y" sound like in Scandinavian languages and in old english. For example in 1611 when the KJV was made the letter "J" was not part of the english language or at least in wide use. The version is actually the "KIV" (I for "Iames" instead of "James") and was pronounced like a "Y". So to be more faithful to the Hebrew and responsible to modern english they should be called "Yehovah's Witnesses"

Hebrew also doesn't have vowels (accept the alpeh) so in Hebrew the letters would only be YHVH. What are the vowels inbetween? Nobody knows because the name is never pronounced. For fear of mispronouncing it and disobeying the 2nd commandment. Jewish authorized scripture is the Masorectic Text (MT) which is predominately still used to translate christian scripture as well. The MT puts markings on the letters for pronunciation but for YHVH it is left alone. This is because in Jewish scripture it is not supposed to be pronounced. What happens if scripture is being read what does the reader say when they come across this YHVH? It is common practice to replace it for the spoken word with "Adonai" instead of trying to pronounce the name. What does Adonai mean? It means Lord so to translate the Hebrew text to the english LORD is not so off the mark.

Let's get to what YHVH means. When (in english) God says to Moses that he is "I AM" what is God really saying? God knew of how predisposed people of the era (especially surrounded by Egyptians) are to worshiping idols. He knew if he said his name was something relatable to the physical (like a golden calf) people would start worshiping the object. So he said something that is above names, he said he is the always was, the is and always will be, the I AM. This is not a name at all this is a statement to the fact that he is the one true God. To glorify the name like the JW's are doing is disingenuous to the point of what God said and irresponsible because it will (and has) lead to worship of a name rather than God.

DamianWarS said:

There is no "J" sound in hebrew so Jehovah cannot be the name of God as a typical english speaker would pronoun it. "J" can have a "Y" sound like in Scandinavian languages and in old english. For example in 1611 when the KJV was made the letter "J" was not part of the english language or at least in wide use. The version is actually the "KIV" (I for "Iames" instead of "James") and was pronounced like a "Y". So to be more faithful to the Hebrew and responsible to modern english they should be called "Yehovah's Witnesses"

Hebrew also doesn't have vowels (accept the alpeh) so in Hebrew the letters would only be YHVH. What are the vowels inbetween? Nobody knows because the name is never pronounced. For fear of mispronouncing it and disobeying the 2nd commandment. Jewish authorized scripture is the Masorectic Text (MT) which is predominately still used to translate christian scripture as well. The MT puts markings on the letters for pronunciation but for YHVH it is left alone. This is because in Jewish scripture it is not supposed to be pronounced. What happens if scripture is being read what does the reader say when they come across this YHVH? It is common practice to replace it for the spoken word with "Adonai" instead of trying to pronounce the name. What does Adonai mean? It means Lord so to translate the Hebrew text to the english LORD is not so off the mark.

Let's get to what YHVH means. When (in english) God says to Moses that he is "I AM" what is God really saying? God knew of how predisposed people of the era (especially surrounded by Egyptians) are to worshiping idols. He knew if he said his name was something relatable to the physical (like a golden calf) people would start worshiping the object. So he said something that is above names, he said he is the always was, the is and always will be, the I AM. This is not a name at all this is a statement to the fact that he is the one true God. To glorify the name like the JW's are doing is disingenuous to the point of what God said and irresponsible because it will (and has) lead to worship of a name rather than God.

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Hi,

Wow. Nice.

And in a talk with some supposedly JW friends, who had just compained through a friend of mine, that I never come over to their house as a friend, I did one day, and on the name they use so much this is what happened.

Now, they were told by me, that I am not allowed to teach about God. They were not told yet that I am allowed to share my life experiences with God, yet. And I would not get the chance as she, the wife started to teach me, and I listened only.

Soon, I am asking what are you trying to tell me. She did not answer.

In another few moments as I am totally confused, "Are you saying to me that you cannot know anything about God, or have a relationship with God, if you don't know how to pronouce His Name"

Yes, she replied and then went on.

She finally finished. She had been talking about all the places in the book that all Christian Religions had taken out the name of God, and her religion had put that name back in.

Instantly for some reason, I remembered the definition for Jehovah I had read in a Mirriam Webster dictionary once. She without me prompting her, then talked all about the vowels that are not there, just like you have said. It then hit, me.......

For twenty minutes they she was saying to me, that she and her religion know nothing about God. Internally I was shaken. I stood up, mumbling almost. "You can't know anything about God unless you know how to say His name...you don't know how to say His name.."

I am still trying to understand her.
"You can't know anything about God unless you know how to say His name."
"You can't say His Name, so you don't know anything about God."

I don't know if all Jehovah's Witnesses think that, but she was old and that is what she did to me.

I did ask God to totally take care of me, before I went over there. The place was.....

She took twenty minutes out of a accusation that I was never only friendly, to make sure that I knew that she, and by extension all Jehovah's Witnesses know nothing about God, by their thinking.

LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

Wow. Nice.

And in a talk with some supposedly JW friends, who had just compained through a friend of mine, that I never come over to their house as a friend, I did one day, and on the name they use so much this is what happened.

Now, they were told by me, that I am not allowed to teach about God. They were not told yet that I am allowed to share my life experiences with God, yet. And I would not get the chance as she, the wife started to teach me, and I listened only.

Soon, I am asking what are you trying to tell me. She did not answer.

In another few moments as I am totally confused, "Are you saying to me that you cannot know anything about God, or have a relationship with God, if you don't know how to pronouce His Name"

Yes, she replied and then went on.

She finally finished. She had been talking about all the places in the book that all Christian Religions had taken out the name of God, and her religion had put that name back in.

Instantly for some reason, I remembered the definition for Jehovah I had read in a Mirriam Webster dictionary once. She without me prompting her, then talked all about the vowels that are not there, just like you have said. It then hit, me.......

For twenty minutes they she was saying to me, that she and her religion know nothing about God. Internally I was shaken. I stood up, mumbling almost. "You can't know anything about God unless you know how to say His name...you don't know how to say His name.."

I am still trying to understand her.
"You can't know anything about God unless you know how to say His name."
"You can't say His Name, so you don't know anything about God."

I don't know if all Jehovah's Witnesses think that, but she was old and that is what she did to me.

I did ask God to totally take care of me, before I went over there. The place was.....

She took twenty minutes out of a accusation that I was never only friendly, to make sure that I knew that she, and by extension all Jehovah's Witnesses know nothing about God, by their thinking.

LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .

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Thanks for sharing that. My experiences with JW's have usually been much more brief and a lot less painful. I am glad you were shown their dark side.