Role of baptism in salvation

ViaCrucis · Jul 11, 2015

lupusFati said:
For one, I'm against infantile baptism. And yes, I'm not a Christian *right now*, but I've been raised around it for more than 20 years. So I have some idea of what I'm talking about.

Baptism isn't necessary for salvation. It is something you do after you've taken that step. It's more a confirmation of your faith than an act of salvation. After all, if you could save yourselves using a bit of water, who would ever need your god?

Two, infants and very young children cannot make that conscious decision. Therefore, baptising them is an effort in futility, because it does literally nothing for them. They're not making any commitment, and you can't make that commitment FOR them.

Also, I have never read anywhere in the bible that baptism is what saves you. It's always been focused on "Christ".

With all due respect it sounds like you were raised within a particular kind of Christian tradition; Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans (that includes Episcopalians in the US), Presbyterians, Methodists, Eastern Orthodox, Moravians, and the Oriental Orthodox (this list isn't completely exhaustive) all baptize infants. Baptism being understood in all these churches as the means by which a person is brought into Christian faith and community.

I'm guessing you are unfamiliar with Scripture about Baptism as being involved in salvation because it's not what your upbringing focused on. But as just a couple examples:

"Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." - Galatians 3:27

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." - Romans 6:3-4

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," - 1 Peter 3:21

Further traditionally Christians also look at these passages as being pretty clear indications of the importance of Baptism:

"Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'" - John 3:5

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word," - Ephesians 5:25-26

"But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." - Titus 3:4-7

The idea that Baptism is unconnected to God's grace and our salvation in Jesus is an entirely modern idea that goes back less than five hundred years to the Radical Reformation. The position, throughout Christian history, is that Baptism is the normative means by which God takes people and makes them Christians, Baptism is the means by which God applies the saving work of Jesus to an individual, as an act of grace, through faith.

Further, the idea that Baptism doesn't do anything apart from an individual's conscious choice is foreign from the historic Christian understanding. Baptism was understood very early on in Christianity to be, among other things, a kind of circumcision of the heart; and in the same way that infants were circumcised as part of the covenant God made with ancient Israel Baptism is the sign and seal of God's covenant toward us. St. Paul makes this association in his letter to the Colossians, chapter 2.

Baptism is efficacious because of the God who is at work, not account of the one being baptized. God's grace doesn't discriminate between the very young and the very old, the healthy or the sick. God embraces everyone, invites and calls everyone. So we baptize our infants and we baptize our old. We baptize the well and we baptize the ill. We baptize the poor and we baptize the rich.

We baptize our children for the same reason that we have our children vaccinated, buy our children clothes, and feed our children.

-CryptoLutheran

cloudyday2 · Jul 11, 2015

ViaCrucis said:
With all due respect it sounds like you were raised within a particular kind of Christian tradition; Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans (that includes Episcopalians in the US), Presbyterians, Methodists, Eastern Orthodox, Moravians, and the Oriental Orthodox (this list isn't completely exhaustive) all baptize infants. Baptism being understood in all these churches as the means by which a person is brought into Christian faith and community.

I'm guessing you are unfamiliar with Scripture about Baptism as being involved in salvation because it's not what your upbringing focused on. But as just a couple examples:

"Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." - Galatians 3:27

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." - Romans 6:3-4

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," - 1 Peter 3:21

Further traditionally Christians also look at these passages as being pretty clear indications of the importance of Baptism:

"Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'" - John 3:5

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word," - Ephesians 5:25-26

"But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." - Titus 3:4-7

The idea that Baptism is unconnected to God's grace and our salvation in Jesus is an entirely modern idea that goes back less than five hundred years to the Radical Reformation. The position, throughout Christian history, is that Baptism is the normative means by which God takes people and makes them Christians, Baptism is the means by which God applies the saving work of Jesus to an individual, as an act of grace, through faith.

Further, the idea that Baptism doesn't do anything apart from an individual's conscious choice is foreign from the historic Christian understanding. Baptism was understood very early on in Christianity to be, among other things, a kind of circumcision of the heart; and in the same way that infants were circumcised as part of the covenant God made with ancient Israel Baptism is the sign and seal of God's covenant toward us. St. Paul makes this association in his letter to the Colossians, chapter 2.

Baptism is efficacious because of the God who is at work, not account of the one being baptized. God's grace doesn't discriminate between the very young and the very old, the healthy or the sick. God embraces everyone, invites and calls everyone. So we baptize our infants and we baptize our old. We baptize the well and we baptize the ill. We baptize the poor and we baptize the rich.

We baptize our children for the same reason that we have our children vaccinated, buy our children clothes, and feed our children.

-CryptoLutheran

I also found some websites with quotes from early Christians regarding infant baptism and the role of baptism in salvation:
https://carm.org/early-church-fathers-baptism
http://www.churchfathers.org/category/sacraments/infant-baptism/

CARM's page is particularly interesting because I assume Matt Slick comes from a denomination that does not understand baptism the way you understand it. Yet the quotes on CARM's page from church fathers seem to be overwhelming in agreement with you IMO.

aiki · Jul 12, 2015

As an alternative to the "historical" understanding concerning baptism and salvation I would offer the following biblical understanding:

One is baptized into Christ at the moment of one's conversion, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, totally separate from any good work.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Paul reinforces the idea that works do not come into how one is saved:

Titus 3:5
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Whatever rationale one might endeavour to offer to get around the fact, baptism is unmistakably a work. And as a work it is explicitly excluded as a necessary component of one's salvation. These verses and all the other many verses that deal with the matter of a believer's justification sharply constrain how one might understand passages like Romans 6: 3, 4 or Galatians 3:27. Whatever understanding one wants to take, it cannot be that salvation comes by dint of any work - like baptism - that we perform.

Romans 3:27-28
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1-2
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 5:8-9
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

It is no surprise, then, given the clear declaration of these verses, that Paul writes,

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

And,

1 Corinthians 1:17
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

If baptism is integral to salvation, Paul's comments here are rather astonishing! He plainly states that his preaching of the Gospel did not involve baptism! But how could he preach the Gospel and not baptize if baptism is integral to how one is saved? That would be like pointing out a house is on fire but refusing to help those within it escape! It seems evident to me, therefore, that including baptism as an essential for salvation was not part of Paul's Gospel doctrine, which is why he says nothing of baptism in his explanation of how one is saved in Romans 10:9,10. Instead, he took significant pains to clarify that we are reconciled to God, we are saved, solely by faith in Christ as our Saviour and Lord.

Paul's rejection of the idea that baptism is necessary to salvation is confirmed by how the apostle John defines salvation:

1 John 5:10-13
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Here John agrees with the idea that salvation is only through faith. But, he also explains that salvation is not a process or ritual (like baptism), or some kind of spiritual certification, but a Person: Jesus Christ. If baptism was integral to coming into fellowship with Jesus, why is John utterly silent here about baptism's role in salvation? "Oh, but hang on," some say, "He cited Jesus who connected baptism to salvation":

John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

What did Jesus mean when he spoke of being "born of water and the Spirit"? Well, he explains in the very next verse. "Born of water" is a reference to physical birth ("born of the flesh"), not baptism, which is set in contrast to spiritual birth accomplished through God's Spirit. If we let Jesus explain himself, there is no legitimate way to construe what he is saying in verse 5 as a reference to baptism.

So, even in this light treatment of this issue, the case for baptism as an essential of salvation just doesn't accord with Scripture. It is certainly a very important step of obedience in the life of every believer and is a ritual of high symbolic significance, but it has nothing directly to do with being born-again.

Selah.

cloudyday2 · Jul 12, 2015

aiki said:
As an alternative to the "historical" understanding concerning baptism and salvation I would offer the following biblical understanding:

One is baptized into Christ at the moment of one's conversion, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, totally separate from any good work.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Paul reinforces the idea that works do not come into how one is saved:

Titus 3:5
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Whatever rationale one might endeavour to offer to get around the fact, baptism is unmistakably a work. And as a work it is explicitly excluded as a necessary component of one's salvation. These verses and all the other many verses that deal with the matter of a believer's justification sharply constrain how one might understand passages like Romans 6: 3, 4 or Galatians 3:27. Whatever understanding one wants to take, it cannot be that salvation comes by dint of any work - like baptism - that we perform.

Romans 3:27-28
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1-2
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 5:8-9
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

It is no surprise, then, given the clear declaration of these verses, that Paul writes,

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

And,

1 Corinthians 1:17
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

If baptism is integral to salvation, Paul's comments here are rather astonishing! He plainly states that his preaching of the Gospel did not involve baptism! But how could he preach the Gospel and not baptize if baptism is integral to how one is saved? That would be like pointing out a house is on fire but refusing to help those within it escape! It seems evident to me, therefore, that including baptism as an essential for salvation was not part of Paul's Gospel doctrine, which is why he says nothing of baptism in his explanation of how one is saved in Romans 10:9,10. Instead, he took significant pains to clarify that we are reconciled to God, we are saved, solely by faith in Christ as our Saviour and Lord.

Paul's rejection of the idea that baptism is necessary to salvation is confirmed by how the apostle John defines salvation:

1 John 5:10-13
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Here John agrees with the idea that salvation is only through faith. But, he also explains that salvation is not a process or ritual (like baptism), or some kind of spiritual certification, but a Person: Jesus Christ. If baptism was integral to coming into fellowship with Jesus, why is John utterly silent here about baptism's role in salvation? "Oh, but hang on," some say, "He cited Jesus who connected baptism to salvation":

John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

What did Jesus mean when he spoke of being "born of water and the Spirit"? Well, he explains in the very next verse. "Born of water" is a reference to physical birth ("born of the flesh"), not baptism, which is set in contrast to spiritual birth accomplished through God's Spirit. If we let Jesus explain himself, there is no legitimate way to construe what he is saying in verse 5 as a reference to baptism.

So, even in this light treatment of this issue, the case for baptism as an essential of salvation just doesn't accord with Scripture. It is certainly a very important step of obedience in the life of every believer and is a ritual of high symbolic significance, but it has nothing directly to do with being born-again.

Selah.

It seems to me that we need a better definition of "works".

I haven't watched 700 club for a long time, but Pat Robertson used to ask viewers to pray with him some version of the "sinner's prayer". Then he would say something like "Congratulations! Now you are saved..." Isn't saying the sinner's prayer a work in the same sense that baptism is a work? If so, then we should say the "sinner's prayer" isn't essential to salvation.

IMO, the only way to make salvation 100% grace is to make it universal.

aiki · Jul 12, 2015

Well, here's why faith and works are so often made identical in people's thinking: they are two sides of the same coin. As the apostle James points out, if I really believe something, it will inevitably manifest itself in my behaviour. In this regard, then, faith and works are very closely connected. But, like the two faces of a coin, they are not identical. Just as we can distinguish the head side of a coin from the tails side, we can distinguish faith from the works it produces. Our faith as believers is a gift from God, it is not the product of our own effort, a work we have accomplished within ourselves. When we express that faith in Christ in a prayer of salvation, we are communicating what God has already done in us; for we could not pray such a prayer otherwise. A sinner's prayer is not, then, a work we do in order to be saved, but an expression of the work God Himself has already done in us in convicting us, and convincing us of the truth of the Gospel, and giving us the faith to believe in Christ.

I find no where in Scripture "The Sinner's Prayer." I do find repeated exhortations to express belief in Christ as Saviour and Lord but the exact form of that expression is never stipulated in the Bible. Does one even need initially to say anything at all to be saved? I know of some people who very gradually came to a deep positive conviction about the Gospel and Christ as their Saviour. But they had no single instance they could point to where they went from non-belief to belief. They simply realized they had come to accept Christ as their Saviour and Lord totally apart from any particular and singular conversion act. Does this mean they weren't really saved? Absolutely not! No specific act or string of words is ever presented in Scripture as the sole way one must be saved.

Selah.

Albion · Jul 13, 2015

cloudyday2 said:
In the 1960s my mother studied to be a nurse, and she told me that they were taught how to baptize a patient if requested. Apparently more people from that era felt that baptism was an essential ingredient of salvation. Modern Christianity seems to emphasize the sinner's prayer over baptism.

Nurses are called upon to assist people of many religions to have their religious needs met. The reason they were called upon to baptize used to be because it was believed by Catholics that unbaptized babies go to Limbo rather than to Heaven. The Roman Catholic Church has since shelved that idea about a Limbo.

But Catholics and many other Christians nevertheless believe that it is a sacrament that remits sin and marks one as a member of Christ's church, so nurses may still expect to be called upon, in emergencies, to baptize.

I don't think that the sinner's prayer is especially "modern" or that churches favoring it have taken the place of any other variety of Christianity, although the so-called "Evangelical" churches have gotten a lot of attention in more recent years, usually because of their role in various political controversies.

dms1972 · Jul 13, 2015

savedbygrace71 · Aug 2, 2015

Salvation occurs when one repents and places their faith in Christ alone to save them. Baptism is an act of obedience towards God. When one is baptized, that is a proclamation of their faith in Jesus. It is a picture of what Christ did for us. Baptism does not save you. Getting saved is giving your life to Him. Jesus saves. Baptism is a big part in a believer's life, but it does not save them. Salvation does not require baptism, but baptism does require salvation. Hope that makes sense to you. I believe that if one gives their life to Christ then they should take that act of obedience in being baptized. Well, hope that helped you out.
God bless!

Lord, Your will be done

Aidan K · Aug 2, 2015

Albion said:
Nurses are called upon to assist people of many religions to have their religious needs met. The reason they were called upon to baptize used to be because it was believed by Catholics that unbaptized babies go to Limbo rather than to Heaven. The Roman Catholic Church has since shelved that idea about a Limbo.

But Catholics and many other Christians nevertheless believe that it is a sacrament that remits sin and marks one as a member of Christ's church, so nurses may still expect to be called upon, in emergencies, to baptize.

I don't think that the sinner's prayer is especially "modern" or that churches favoring it have taken the place of any other variety of Christianity, although the so-called "Evangelical" churches have gotten a lot of attention in more recent years, usually because of their role in various political controversies.

Not only nurses, anyone can perform a baptism if the subject is in immediate danger of death

cloudyday2 · Aug 2, 2015

savedbygrace71 said:
Salvation occurs when one repents and places their faith in Christ alone to save them. Baptism is an act of obedience towards God. When one is baptized, that is a proclamation of their faith in Jesus. It is a picture of what Christ did for us. Baptism does not save you. Getting saved is giving your life to Him. Jesus saves. Baptism is a big part in a believer's life, but it does not save them. Salvation does not require baptism, but baptism does require salvation. Hope that makes sense to you. I believe that if one gives their life to Christ then they should take that act of obedience in being baptized. Well, hope that helped you out.
God bless!

Lord, Your will be done

Thanks

Would you agree that baptism has become less important with the rise of Evangelical theology? For example, Christians used to disagree over what constituted a valid baptism. There was: (full immersion vs. sprinkling), (infant vs. mature), (Trinitarian vs non-Trinitarian). This all indicates that baptism was viewed as more than a obligatory public ceremony in the time of our parents and grandparents. My grandfather was not allowed full membership into the Christian (Christian denomination) church he attended for many years with his wife and children. He was baptized in the Presbyterian church, and it wasn't full immersion, but he felt it was a special experience that he did not want to disrespect by redoing. The non-denominational churches that are more popular today probably don't split hairs over baptism as much. IDK

hedrick · Aug 2, 2015

Whether anything has changed depends upon the tradition. Catholics are probably a bit less uptight because the concept that unbaptized infants go to limbo is now less common. However baptism is still necessary, and will be done if at all possible. Strict baptist groups still require baptism as an adult by full immersion. Perhaps there are more churches that allow for different practices, but I don't have statistics.

dms1972 · Aug 2, 2015

Salvation occurs when one repents and places their faith in Christ alone to save them. Baptism is an act of obedience towards God. When one is baptized, that is a proclamation of their faith in Jesus. It is a picture of what Christ did for us. Baptism does not save you. Getting saved is giving your life to Him. Jesus saves. Baptism is a big part in a believer's life, but it does not save them. Salvation does not require baptism, but baptism does require salvation. Hope that makes sense to you. I believe that if one gives their life to Christ then they should take that act of obedience in being baptized. Well, hope that helped you out.

Thanks thats not far off how i understand things.

dms1972 · Aug 2, 2015

Say I was baptised twice, would I have done something wrong?

cloudyday2 · Aug 2, 2015

dms1972 said:
Say I was baptised twice, would I have done something wrong?

Three times for me

Albion · Aug 2, 2015

dms1972 said:
Say I was baptised twice, would I have done something wrong?

You're not committing a sin by it, but most churches consider Baptism to impart an indelible change of status upon the person, so it cannot be repeated. We talk about re-baptisms and some churches will claim that if you were baptized as an infant or your baptism wasn't by immersion, they will consider the first one to be invalid and tell you to have another. However, the general understanding is that you can only be baptized once and any re-baptisms are just going through the motions...something like married couples deciding to repeat their vows years after their wedding. That ceremony has a certain meaning for the couple, but they really were already married.

cloudyday2 · Aug 2, 2015

Albion said:
You're not committing a sin by it, but most churches consider Baptism to impart an indelible change of status upon the person, so it cannot be repeated. We talk about re-baptisms and some churches will claim that if you were baptized as an infant or your baptism wasn't by immersion, they will consider the first one to be invalid and tell you to have another. However, the general understanding is that you can only be baptized once and any re-baptisms are just going through the motions...something like married couples deciding to repeat their vows years after their wedding. That ceremony has a certain meaning for the couple, but they really were already married.

What about somebody like me who is now an atheist? Let's imagine that I find some reason to believe in Christianity and decide to start following the Christian path again? Would I need to do baptism #4?

hedrick · Aug 2, 2015

cloudyday2 said:
What about somebody like me who is now an atheist? Let's imagine that I find some reason to believe in Christianity and decide to start following the Christian path again? Would I need to do baptism #4?

Not if you were baptized before. God already claimed you as his. It just took a while for you to realize it.

ViaCrucis · Aug 2, 2015

dms1972 said:
Say I was baptised twice, would I have done something wrong?

From the perspective of traditional Christian churches we would understand it that your "second baptism" just wasn't a baptism. Nobody gets re-baptized, rebaptism doesn't exist. That is to say, a "second baptism" would be considered meaningless.

What would be dangerous is in knowingly and actively renouncing one's baptism. Because to renounce one's baptism is to contend against the God who so graciously baptized you into the Life of His precious Son and who gave you the Holy Spirit, sealing and marking you as belong to Him, and as a child of God, an heir of God; and a new creation in Christ Jesus.

Having said that, even if one renounces their baptism it doesn't change the fact that they are, indeed, baptized. Once baptized, always baptized. If one is baptized and later falls away from the faith, they may have rejected their baptism and the Christ who saves them, but they nevertheless remain baptized--and that can never be undone. There is nothing that can undo what God has done for us in our baptism. Which is why baptism, also, isn't some sort of "fire insurance" or an automatic travel ticket to the pearly gates: Baptism is our new birth, the means by which God brings us into the life of faith in Christ by making us members of His body, the Church, granting faith to our hearts to believe and trust in the Christ who saves us. By grace alone through faith alone are we saved, so while baptism brings us faith and delivers us up to God in Christ, it is the faith He has given us so graciously by which we trust in the Savior that God is always at work justifying us. So that, though baptized, if we turn away from faith, we no longer benefit from our baptism.

By analogy: A child born to a king cannot be reborn, but indeed by this birth the child has a birthright from the king and is, indeed, an heir. That birthright, if the king so decrees it, can never be undone. Though the child of the king can abandon his place at the king's side, wander far afield, and choose to live--as the prodigal son did--having squandered the inheritance among the pigs and living off the pig feed. Though as the story of the prodigal teaches us, there is a welcoming father who grants a luxurious feast to the son who was once lost but is now found again.

We could renounce our baptism, renounce our faith, and thereby renounce all that is ours in Christ; and we therefore do not benefit from the great things that are ours in Christ--but what God has done, what God has given birth to in baptism, can't be destroyed. There instead always remains the glorious welcome to any and all who return--there is a Good Shepherd who looks high and low for the one lost little lamb never resting until He finds them.

-CryptoLuthearn

ViaCrucis · Aug 2, 2015

cloudyday2 said:
What about somebody like me who is now an atheist? Let's imagine that I find some reason to believe in Christianity and decide to start following the Christian path again? Would I need to do baptism #4?

It would seem that my last post would in many ways answer this question better than the question I was attempting to answer.

Once baptized, always baptized. If you returned to Christianity there would be no need for another "baptism" because the only baptism is the first and only baptism a person receives. That is the indelible mark which God makes on a person in baptism, it can't be erased.

-CryptoLutheran

savedbygrace71 · Aug 3, 2015

cloudyday2 said:
What about somebody like me who is now an atheist? Let's imagine that I find some reason to believe in Christianity and decide to start following the Christian path again? Would I need to do baptism #4?

If you are an atheist and do not believe in the exsistence of God, then you have never truly surrendered your life to Christ and placed your faith in Him. Therefore you being baptized (however many times) is irrelevant. Does that make sense?

Role of baptism in salvation

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Well-Known Member

Generic Theist

Facilitator

Generic Theist

Senior Veteran

Confessional Lutheran

Confessional Lutheran

Chief of sinners

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