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Good health care, eh? (I'm from Wisconsin, so I get to say that). Pretty sure that in Canada a hip replacement takes several weeks of waiting, whereas if you're a dog you can get one by the end of the week. Delayed healthcare is denied health care; the USA is #1 in responsiveness. The USA has the best, most cutting edge and responsive health care in the world. The problem is the financing. Half of all R&D is done in the USA. If other countries would pick up the slack and tow their own weight, rather than mooching off the USA, then our health care would be cheaper and more affordable.
Since when has hip replacement been such a disaster that it needs immediate attention? Many know they will need one, and plan accordingly. I guess America is so conditioned to getting what it wants when they want it that they never consider planning for such surgeries.... Poor analogy for a retort.
 
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pakicetus

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Pretty sure it says it is a fact that "climate change" is not a recent, human-developed disaster. Since the climate has always changed, even before humans existed, then that is a fact.
Not what "climate change" usually means. In modern parlance, "climate change" has become a synonym for global warming--something everyone knows. If Prager University doesn't know that, it's doubly unqualified to teach about climate.
Well so the rest of that is just pejoratives and nonsense. Like the claim that on a scale where left is large government, and right is individual liberty, fascism is a far right ideology sitting near libertarianism and anarchy. But hey, call him a crackpot all you like. The kettle is just as cracked.
Fascists don't believe in individual liberty; you're right about that. The political spectrum isn't usually defined by individual liberty, but by social equality.
Besides, I made it clear it was a tangent about American culture. Your response is to take big poo on it for no good reason. Stinks of anti-Americanism.
Almost nobody in America is anti-American. If you ask people whether they're "proud to be an American," only 1% of the country says no.
 
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Skaloop

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Good health care, eh? (I'm from Wisconsin, so I get to say that). Pretty sure that in Canada a hip replacement takes several weeks of waiting, whereas if you're a dog you can get one by the end of the week. Delayed healthcare is denied health care; the USA is #1 in responsiveness. The USA has the best, most cutting edge and responsive health care in the world. The problem is the financing. Half of all R&D is done in the USA(that means we are literally equal to the rest of the world combined. That's 310 million vs ~6.8 billion). If other countries would pick up the slack and tow their own weight, rather than mooching off the USA, then our health care would be cheaper and more affordable.

I'd rather wait a few weeks than find myself with a huge medical bill to pay. If the issue is immediately life-threatening, I won't need to wait that long. Either way, there's no chance I would be forced into bankruptcy. Never mind the fact that having ready access to general health care means that I am more likely to catch problems earlier, and I'll take out system every time.
 
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Skaloop

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OK. And, therefore...?


Pretty sure it says it is a fact that "climate change" is not a recent, human-developed disaster. Since the climate has always changed, even before humans existed, then that is a fact. If 97% of climate scientists disagree with that, then this data scientist says 97% of climate scientists are too dull to be worthy of being called scientists, and the only warming they should concern themselves with is warming a burger for me while salting my fries.


Well so the rest of that is just pejoratives and nonsense. Like the claim that on a scale where left is large government, and right is individual liberty, fascism is a far right ideology sitting near libertarianism and anarchy. But hey, call him a crackpot all you like. The kettle is just as cracked.

Besides, I made it clear it was a tangent about American culture. Your response is to take big poo on it for no good reason. Stinks of anti-Americanism.

It's not that the climate is changing; that is, as you mentioned, an ongoing thing. It's the rate at which the climate is changing, and it's the effect it will have on our established human lifestyle. Climate change won't destroy the planet, climate change won't end life on Earth. But climate change will affect humanity in negative ways. Significant changes in weather, temperature, storms, water levels, etc. won't affect the planet too much, but will affect us.
 
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KarateCowboy

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Not what "climate change" usually means. In modern parlance, "climate change" has become a synonym for global warming--something everyone knows, including Prager University, in all probability.
Much like ignorant journalists misusing the term "hacker", common ignorance and journalistic abuse have contributed to confusion and chaos in the discussion. Dennis Prager is all about bringing clarity over agreement; it is a wise thing to distinguish between climate change and global warming.

Fascists don't believe in individual liberty; you're right about that. The political spectrum isn't usually defined by individual liberty, but by social equality.
There are different spectrums in different conversations. It is fairly often that individual liberty is a factor in spectrum. Especially so, given that there is a certain tension between liberty and equality along a spectrum, especially given that total equality requires total eradication of individual liberty.
Almost nobody in America is anti-American. If you ask people whether they're "proud to be an American," only 1% of the country says no.
Of course. They are proud to be American. It's just that some want to fundamentally transform what it means to be American. Kind of how some men love their wives, but wish they could fundamentally transform her into someone else.

Anyway, this is getting off topic, so you may have the last word on it.
 
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Skaloop

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Much like ignorant journalists misusing the term "hacker", common ignorance and journalistic abuse have contributed to confusion and chaos in the discussion. Dennis Prager is all about bringing clarity over agreement; it is a wise thing to distinguish between climate change and global warming.

So how are you any more of an authority on the matter?
 
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Jan Volkes

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Yes.

Bankruptcy law was created to resolve exactly this sort of problem. Everyone involved knows that the individual involved cannot pay off a huge hospital bill. Bankruptcy acknowledges that FACT and provides recovery within a reasonable time frame. Believe it or not, all parties benefit from it.
What is all the fuss about then? 750,000 people going bankrupt doesn't mean a thing if it's that easy to get away with,
in fact the more debt you have the easier it must be to walk away from it, bankruptcy seems like a joke played on the people you owe money, the law is in effect allowing people to run up huge debts without the need to pay it back,
again, forgive me if I don't completely swallow that.
 
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Armoured

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Then use an automatic????

An American astronaut once told a Russian astronaut how much the US had spent developing a pen that would write in zero gravity, the Russian said they had one but it hadn't cost them a penny, they called it a pencil.
Actually, pencils in microgravity are bad news. Tiny flecks of graphite float off and get into instruments and circuitry. http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
 
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Armoured

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Yeah, sorry about that. I was going to scan my latest copy of Official British Policy; Magazine, but the dog shredded it. Anyway, what I was trying to get at is that government-run health care runs into shenanigans just like the private industry; it just comes out of your tax dollars instead. I mean, if they don't publish their policies, then that's a huge red flag on its own.
3 seconds on Google: https://www.gov.uk/government/policies
 
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What is all the fuss about then? 750,000 people going bankrupt doesn't mean a thing if it's that easy to get away with,
in fact the more debt you have the easier it must be to walk away from it, bankruptcy seems like a joke played on the people you owe money, the law is in effect allowing people to run up huge debts without the need to pay it back,
again, forgive me if I don't completely swallow that.
Bankruptcy is a joke, and most of the people or companies I have see do it ran up their bills without attempting to pay people, then filed bankruptcy and offered money back to the people they owe pennies on the dollar. I have no use for such undisciplined people. He is wrong when saying all parties benefit. That is a lie. I worked for a company who went bankrupt, and they owed one company over $500,000. That company was forced to take $50,000 or nothing at all. They did not benefit.
 
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Jan Volkes

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Jan Volkes

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Anyway back to the topic, if you are unlucky then the US health care system could be your downfall,
a simple thing like losing your job and you could be up a creek without a paddle, if that's the price Americans pay for being free [and I think I can speak for 100,s of millions of others when I say] I hope I am never as free as Americans think they are.
 
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variant

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I thought you could do better than use a gossip rag (what's Caitlin Jenner up to?), besides, I asked you for the official British government policy. The DM does not tend to publish their government's policies.

The NHS is so bad that people tend to live longer there.

Meanwhile we get to be protected by bankruptcy court when a hip replacement in America costs 65,000 less than getting it done in Belgium.

http://mic.com/articles/58039/man-saves-65-000-on-hip-replacement-by-getting-it-done-in-belgium
 
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variant

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Noting that bankruptcy means one doesn't pay the medical bills. Bankruptcy exists for a reason.

Noting further that most people are in debt (mortgages and such) ... rather than having positive net worth.

Mortgage or no, something seems off when my house costs less than a hip replacement.
 
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Albion

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The US health care system is responsible for at least 750,000 [3/4 of a million] people going bankrupt, that doesn't happen in any other country in the civilised world.
In todays US virtually every single American is one really bad day away from financial ruin, medical bills are the number one reason for bankruptcy in the United States?
Perhaps something you did not know is that the vast majority of people that go bankrupt due to medical bills actually have health insurance?

Read about it all here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/statistics-about-the-health-care-industry-2011-2?op=1&IR=T

The really terrible thing about Obamacare is that it is horribly flawed and causes as many problems as it may seem to fix. But, of course, the Democrats and the White House wanted a legislative victory more than they wanted health care that really fixed problems. And now that they have it, they and their knee-jerk fans are determined to pretend that it has no problems, or at least none that are anything more than temporary administrative shortcomings. To fix the problems would mean admitting that the opposition was at least partially correct, and that is unthinkable to them.
 
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NightHawkeye

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Anyway back to the topic, if you are unlucky then the US health care system could be your downfall,
a simple thing like losing your job and you could be up a creek without a paddle, if that's the price Americans pay for being free [and I think I can speak for 100,s of millions of others when I say] I hope I am never as free as Americans think they are.
Noting that health problems actually do kill people ... and that people still die in the UK, not infrequently because the UK doesn't offer life-saving services available in the US. Some procedures and some drugs are just too expensive for socialized medicine.

Now, feel free to argue about how bad bankruptcy is when the patient is alive.
 
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Lazy_Proverb

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It won't be me next because I live in the UK. Thank goodness for the NHS.
In 2012 9 out of 10 NHS were rationing programs. You can keep your socialized medicine in the UK. Sadly, the American was not only copied from the blueprint afforded the NHS but also the Canadian. And they're all horrible at fulfilling the obligation of health care.

When (UK) Doctors Give Warning
Palliative sedation is not killing. As an article in the Journal of Pain & Palliative Care Pharmacotherapy (201 2;26:30-39) put it earlier this year (abstract link only): "Palliative sedation is not a euphemism that is morally equivalent to euthanasia, nor is it "slow euthanasia," or physician-assisted suicide (PAS)." Indeed, the article made three essential points about palliative sedation, properly applied:

  1. PS is individualized to the terminally ill patient's needs;
  2. PS doesn't end the life of the patient but prevents otherwise untreatable pain; and,
  3. Levels of sedation may vary in the same patient from time to time. In other words, it is to be applied in a nuanced and patient-specific manner.


And in America we're certainly not above copying those across the pond or that northern border in other respects. Therefore, palliative care sedation is worthy of concern in our future. Namely, limiting narcotics for the terminally ill, who happen to be poor, could lead to the nuanced patient specific treatment plan that includes termination of life in the name of mercy.

Limits Urged On Painkillers By FDA Advisory Panel
Published: Monday 28 January 2013

FORBES 2011 = The Ugly Realities of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away

America's socialized medicine health care plan, like that of other countries, is: Don't Get Sick! (does not apply to the rich)
 
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variant

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Noting that health problems actually do kill people ... and that people still die in the UK, not infrequently because the UK doesn't offer life-saving services available in the US. Some procedures and some drugs are just too expensive for socialized medicine.

Now, feel free to argue about how bad bankruptcy is when the patient is alive.

Again, nothing that the life expectancy of an someone being treated by the NHS is higher than someone from the US.
 
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variant

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America's socialized medicine health care plan, like that of other countries, is: Don't Get Sick! (does not apply to the rich)

Actually for the elderly America's socialized medicine plan is called Medicare, a system we pay almost as much for as other countries pay for socialized medicine for everyone.
 
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Noting that health problems actually do kill people ... and that people still die in the UK, not infrequently because the UK doesn't offer life-saving services available in the US. Some procedures and some drugs are just too expensive for socialized medicine.

Now, feel free to argue about how bad bankruptcy is when the patient is alive.
Well, let us be REAL frank here we ALL will die anyway. No matter what you do you cannot live on FOREVER. It is called MORTALITY. The point is that if people feel that socialized medicine saves lives when in reality it MUST be rationed as there is only so much money. well you still ration. The difference is that we will sometimes self-ration for reasons that by the way are NOT always money related or are only partly concerning money as opposed to long waits and the government controlling who gets what.
 
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