The Gospel
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Hi LoveofTruth,
If you are referencing the statements from the Gospel of Mark, concerning "their fire never being quenched", Yeshua is therein expounding from the Prophet Isaiah:
Isaiah 66:22-24 KJV Restored Name
66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith YHWH, so shall your seed and your name remain.
66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YHWH.
66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
http://yahushua.net/scriptures/isa66.htm
If you look at it in the Septuagint with comparison to the Greek found in Mark you will see that, (although Mark 9:44 & 46 are disputed) Mark 9:48 is definitely a quote from Isaiah 66:24. Likewise, in the Isaiah passage from the Greek Septuagint, one might take special note that the "carcasses of men" in Isaiah 66:24 are not "full bodies of carcasses", but rather body parts, like hands, feet, an evil eye that offends you, and so on and so on. In addition the word which is rendered "spectacle" in the Brenton Translation is also used for visions, (horasis-horasin as in Acts 2:17). It is not only prophetic language but allegorical and parabolic in nature, (as usual with the prophets).
I quote Mark 9:48 in place of Mark 9:44 & 46 simply because it is not disputed:
Mark 9:48 KJV
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:48 W/H 1881
48 ὅπου ὁ σκώληξ αὐτῶν οὐ τελευτᾷ καὶ τὸ πῦρ οὐ σβέννυται·
Esaias 66:24 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
24 And they shall go forth, and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be a spectacle to all flesh.
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek...ook=43&page=66
Esaias 66:24 LXX-Septuagint
24 καὶ ἐξελεύσονται καὶ ὄψονται τὰ κῶλα τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν παραβεβηκότων ἐν ἐμοί· ὁ γὰρ σκώληξ αὐτῶν οὐ τελευτήσει, καὶ τὸ πῦρ αὐτῶν οὐ σβεσθήσεται, καὶ ἔσονται εἰς ὅρασιν πάσῃ σαρκί.
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek...ook=43&page=66
"κῶλα" (kola) in the above is GSN#2966 "kolon" which is any limb of the body:
Original Strong's Ref. #2966
Romanized kolon
Pronounced ko'-lon
from the base of GSN2849; a limb of the body (as if lopped):
KJV--carcase.
And not only a limb but a limb as if lopped or chopped off!
Therefore what the Master teaches in the Mark 9 passage is in accordance with and expounds the Isaiah passage and, in fact, expounds to us the will of the Father, which is to cut off evil from ourselves and "mortify the deeds of the body" as Paul also says, (Romans 8:13 KJV) and again, mortify your own "members" which are upon your own "earth", (Colossians 3:5) because every man has his "Land" which he or she is set in charge over while the House Master is likened as to be "away in a far journey", (Mark 13:34-37) and we are no more our own when we enter into Yeshua faithfulness, and the eyes of our heavenly Father are upon His Land night and day from the beginning of the year unto the end of the year.
Therefore, in this allegorical light, one may properly understand the reasoning behind the statement concerning salt and fire at the end of the passage in Mark:
Mark 9:43-50 KJV
43. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
Your presenting of your own body as a living sacrifice, which is your reasonable service, (Romans 12:1) means that since the teachings in Mark 9:43-50 and its companion passages are not literal body part cutting, hacking, and chopping off, (lol) therefore also your "members" of your "household" will not literally die, and therefore their worm shall not die, (for Yakob also is called a worm in Isaiah 41:14) and the "fire" thereof shall likewise not be quenched; for every one shall be salted with fire, (an immersion) and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt, (a preservative). And when the Master of the House comes he will bring with him those former "unruly members" of your household which you have been forced "to put to sleep", (otherwise why immerse for the dead, as Paul says, if those "members" of your household do not rise? verily they shall awaken before you and you will not precede them). Then shall Messiah quicken your mortal body, if you have done as he says, and those members will finally serve the Master properly under your rule or shepherding, in your dominion-kingdom, when the Master returns and rewards you for your deeds and good works, (1 Thessalonians 4:1-18). It is all allegory and parable and has nothing to do with teaching eternal conscious torment of literal human beings and their literal physical body parts. Perhaps when you go up to Yerushalaim of Above, and then return from your trip, then you will "see" the carcasses of those members of your household which have transgressed against the Father, (and oh what a terrible vision it may end up to be).
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Hi LoveofTruth,
If you are referencing the statements from the Gospel of Mark, concerning "their fire never being quenched", Yeshua is therein expounding from the Prophet Isaiah:
Isaiah 66:22-24 KJV Restored Name
66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith YHWH, so shall your seed and your name remain.
66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YHWH.
66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
http://yahushua.net/scriptures/isa66.htm
If you look at it in the Septuagint with comparison to the Greek found in Mark you will see that, (although Mark 9:44 & 46 are disputed) Mark 9:48 is definitely a quote from Isaiah 66:24. Likewise, in the Isaiah passage from the Greek Septuagint, one might take special note that the "carcasses of men" in Isaiah 66:24 are not "full bodies of carcasses", but rather body parts, like hands, feet, an evil eye that offends you, and so on and so on. In addition the word which is rendered "spectacle" in the Brenton Translation is also used for visions, (horasis-horasin as in Acts 2:17). It is not only prophetic language but allegorical and parabolic in nature, (as usual with the prophets).
I quote Mark 9:48 in place of Mark 9:44 & 46 simply because it is not disputed:
Mark 9:48 KJV
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:48 W/H 1881
48 ὅπου ὁ σκώληξ αὐτῶν οὐ τελευτᾷ καὶ τὸ πῦρ οὐ σβέννυται·
Esaias 66:24 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
24 And they shall go forth, and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be a spectacle to all flesh.
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek...ook=43&page=66
Esaias 66:24 LXX-Septuagint
24 καὶ ἐξελεύσονται καὶ ὄψονται τὰ κῶλα τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν παραβεβηκότων ἐν ἐμοί· ὁ γὰρ σκώληξ αὐτῶν οὐ τελευτήσει, καὶ τὸ πῦρ αὐτῶν οὐ σβεσθήσεται, καὶ ἔσονται εἰς ὅρασιν πάσῃ σαρκί.
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek...ook=43&page=66
"κῶλα" (kola) in the above is GSN#2966 "kolon" which is any limb of the body:
Original Strong's Ref. #2966
Romanized kolon
Pronounced ko'-lon
from the base of GSN2849; a limb of the body (as if lopped):
KJV--carcase.
And not only a limb but a limb as if lopped or chopped off!
Therefore what the Master teaches in the Mark 9 passage is in accordance with and expounds the Isaiah passage and, in fact, expounds to us the will of the Father, which is to cut off evil from ourselves and "mortify the deeds of the body" as Paul also says, (Romans 8:13 KJV) and again, mortify your own "members" which are upon your own "earth", (Colossians 3:5) because every man has his "Land" which he or she is set in charge over while the House Master is likened as to be "away in a far journey", (Mark 13:34-37) and we are no more our own when we enter into Yeshua faithfulness, and the eyes of our heavenly Father are upon His Land night and day from the beginning of the year unto the end of the year.
Therefore, in this allegorical light, one may properly understand the reasoning behind the statement concerning salt and fire at the end of the passage in Mark:
Mark 9:43-50 KJV
43. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
Your presenting of your own body as a living sacrifice, which is your reasonable service, (Romans 12:1) means that since the teachings in Mark 9:43-50 and its companion passages are not literal body part cutting, hacking, and chopping off, (lol) therefore also your "members" of your "household" will not literally die, and therefore their worm shall not die, (for Yakob also is called a worm in Isaiah 41:14) and the "fire" thereof shall likewise not be quenched; for every one shall be salted with fire, (an immersion) and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt, (a preservative). And when the Master of the House comes he will bring with him those former "unruly members" of your household which you have been forced "to put to sleep", (otherwise why immerse for the dead, as Paul says, if those "members" of your household do not rise? verily they shall awaken before you and you will not precede them). Then shall Messiah quicken your mortal body, if you have done as he says, and those members will finally serve the Master properly under your rule or shepherding, in your dominion-kingdom, when the Master returns and rewards you for your deeds and good works, (1 Thessalonians 4:1-18). It is all allegory and parable and has nothing to do with teaching eternal conscious torment of literal human beings and their literal physical body parts. Perhaps when you go up to Yerushalaim of Above, and then return from your trip, then you will "see" the carcasses of those members of your household which have transgressed against the Father, (and oh what a terrible vision it may end up to be).
Excellent post my friend. We are very blessed to have you join us. Thank you and God bless you.
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Amazing post. I've spent all these years studying these things alone (not as though I figured them out myself, but by God who works in us all), completely isolated from other believers. I can't believe I didn't come here sooner. You guys have shown me that this must be true, for how could we all come to the same conclusions when we are so far seperated? The Orthodox position is easy, just turn on the t.v. or read any of the thousands of mainstream books. But I am convinced through you that we have indeed received the Spirit of God. Thank you 2KnowHim, and God bless you.
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daq
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Thank you friend, and seeing that you do not mind a lengthy post or two once in a while, perhaps I might take this opportunity to share one of a good length also myself. This has been posted around these parts before but not in this board if I remember correctly. However the below has everything to do with what was posted above in my previous post; and the dream was real and true, I truly did receive it just as I wrote it down after having awakened when it happened. One of the critical points that should not be missed is that if I had not already been immersing in the Scripture, having the Scripture passages already in my heart and mind, I would surely not have understood the dream when I received it. The glory thus goes to the Father because I had only been doing what every talmid of Yeshua should be doing, (consuming the Word, breaking none of the bones thereof, leaving nothing til your morning comes and the Day Star arises in your heart).
The Eunuch Dream ~ Near the end of a night of sweet sleep upon my floor roll a dream arrived at sunrise. Having no bed to lay my head can sometimes make the pillow like a stone in the clouds of my heavens. As I began to awaken, (so I thought in the dream but none the less it was the dream) I found an arm, having been severed at the elbow, and laying lifeless and dead above my head upon the pillow of stone wherein my mind had found its rest this night. In shock and horror I grabbed the severed arm to inspect it; and there was no blood to be found, neither any mess of fluids, for it had long been severed, and was completely dried out and dead. And I began to wonder who might do such a horrendous and terrible thing? And who might be lurking in the night? And who or what might be watching me? And what was the warning they were sending to me? And then I truly began to fear and tremble in the midst of this dream as I suddenly realized that some one must have been in my room this night. So I cried out to the Most High, saying, Father, help me to understand what this means! Why has this severed arm that is long time dead and completely withered and dried up been left resting on my stony pillow above my head? And who would do such a thing? And then I began to awaken from the dream; and I began to realize that one of my arms had been put to sleep for lack of circulation, and it was completely dead an numb. And there was I left laying there, holding with my other hand my own arm, when it shook itself back to life! It had been wrapped around above my head on the pillow of stone as I slept, and the circulation to it was clean dried up, and there was no feeling in it as if it was cut off, and it had become a separate "member" of the dream. And I heard a voice, saying, Did I not say I would bring with me those that sleep when I come? Behold, you have your arm which you truncated-circumcised-cut off long ago because of offenses according to My Word. The arm was dead, yet now it lives: let no man defraud his brother in this matter, for these little ones are members of My Household and you are not your own. Neither let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree!"
And I remembered some of the passages from where these words derive:
Isaiah 56:1-7 KJV
1. Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2. Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5. Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7. Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Matthew 18:8-11 KJV
8. Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11. For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Matthew 19:12 KJV
12. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
Matthew 24:45-50 KJV
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, ["fellow members of the house"] and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mark 13:31-37 KJV
31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36. Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Revelation 20:4
4. And I saw thrones, and they were seated, and judgment was given unto them: even the souls of them having been truncated through the Testimony of Yeshua, and through the Word of God, and which not had bowed to the beast, neither to the image of him, neither had received the mark upon their foreheads and upon the hands of them. And they lived and reigned with the Messiah a thousand years.
If the man is a house then the house is divided into different compartments, and everything is personified, especially for the purposes of sin and evil. The lesser "members" of our households are likened to "brothers" and "little ones" whom we are given charge to watch over and protect. However, something sinister dwells in the flesh-commons-profane or "outer bounds" and "unwalled" areas of the house-temple of the man, and the evil which dwells in the flesh outer bounds of the house-temple desires to take control over these little ones so as to use them for various iniquities. Let every man understand therefore that we are set in charge of the house in which we dwell while the House Master is away: "Sin lies at the door; and unto you is his desire, and you must rule over him!"
Matthew 18:10 KJV
10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Therefore Paul says to the Thessalonians, "YHWH is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified", because these things concern the body, which is the house, which is the temple of the Creator and is not our own, (and Messiah is the Savior of the body also, Ephesians 5:23). Every part of the body belongs to the Father even down to the five little virgin toes on the right foot and the five on the left, ("Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path") and every separate "member" of the body has a "messenger" that in heaven does always behold the face of the Father which is in the heavens. We are as keepers put in charge over these "lesser members of the household" while the Master of the house is "away in a far journey". We are likened to "the porter of the house" which has the keys and watches the door until the Master of the house returns, (Mark 13:34). This is why Paul states to the Thessalonians that these things concern our own sanctification, and knowing how to possess our own vessels, and are given by the commandments of Yeshua himself:
1 Thessalonians 4:1-14 KJV
1. Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4. That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5. Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6. That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
9. But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
10. And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
11. And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12. That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Let not sin have dominion in your mortal body but put him to death:
Romans 6:12-13 KJV
12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 8:11-14 KJV
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Colossians 3:2-6 KJV
2. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6. For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
The "unruly members" of the household which the faithful and patient have been forced to "put to sleep", (mortify, slay, put to death) will be restored anew from the Father, in the times of refreshing and regeneration, when all things shall be made new and wherein dwells righteousness. This is the same "will of God" of which the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews also writes:
Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
So then, in the End, the Esau man of the "old man" carnal nature goes into perdition, a vessel fit for destruction: while at the same time the new man of a new creation is revealed, a vessel being prepared toward honor, to the glory of the Father and to be used of the Father, having been brought through the trials of an immersion by fire, like the precious metals which are tried in the fire.
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Perhaps when you go up to Yerushalaim of Above, and then return from your trip, then you will "see" the carcasses of those members of your household which have transgressed against the Father, (and oh what a terrible vision it may end up to be).
Love the way you worded this here, and so very true.
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jugghead
Growing
This is what makes it all worth while ... for as we are Mary at the feet of Jesus rather than Martha busy about the world ... we see these truths being formed and joined together in others where no man can take it away ... and the joy we receive in seeing others see is beyond the carnal mind.
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Because of the very reason you just said, we have not been watching T.V. tele-a-vision, or been listening to other messages, we have come out of Baby-land Because of Him, we have been learning from Him alone, and there is No division in The Spirit, unlike the over 30,000 denomenations of religions.
That's why I dispise the Bethel's of this world, (not the people, for I love them) but, the way they divide and deceive.
But in The Spirit there is Unity.
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ron4shua
" ... each in our own order " , Hallelu-YAH .
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http://biblehub.com/niv/genesis/4.htm
4And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
6Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”
John 8:44“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you wish to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Human EGO or satan whispering evil in Cains ear ?
6:11Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them.
Same question , " for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. "
4And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
6Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”
John 8:44“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you wish to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Human EGO or satan whispering evil in Cains ear ?
6:11Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them.
Same question , " for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. "
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Thank you Daq, for that very insightful post.
It is a pouring out of the Soul unto Death, the same as our Lord did, it is Soul for Soul/Life for Life, it IS Covenant Relationship with The Father Through The Son.
So then, in the End, the Esau man of the "old man" carnal nature goes into perdition, a vessel fit for destruction: while at the same time the new man of a new creation is revealed, a vessel being prepared toward honor, to the glory of the Father and to be used of the Father, having been brought through the trials of an immersion by fire, like the precious metals which are tried in the fire.
It is a pouring out of the Soul unto Death, the same as our Lord did, it is Soul for Soul/Life for Life, it IS Covenant Relationship with The Father Through The Son.
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Hello my good friend, thank you for the reply. I would like to discuss this first because I think this is very important to understanding
So then, in the End, the Esau man of the "old man" carnal nature goes into perdition, a vessel fit for destruction: while at the same time the new man of a new creation is revealed, a vessel being prepared toward honor, to the glory of the Father and to be used of the Father, having been brought through the trials of an immersion by fire, like the precious metals which are tried in the fire.
Wow. Please my friend allow me to be carnal for a moment and say, if I had read this a few years ago, I would have thought you were a babbling fool. I would have read those verses and thought they had nothing to do with your dream, and I would have scoffed at this entire post. God has indeed bless you with much wisdom my friend. How is this not considered Christian?!? How is this heresy? This is the power of God.
I want to ask you something, as well as my other friends; 2KnowHim, ron4shua, jugghead, stevenfrancis, LoveofTruth, and whoever else I may have spoke to. If you don't feel comfortable discussing this here, then please PM me. I would like to know your interpretation of the following verse, and what this means to you concerning the Gospel:
"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man." John 5:26
Thanks you all very much. I have to go to bed now. I look forward to hearing from you soon. God bless you all.
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daq
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Amen, the true meaning of the Torah passage which says, "Soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot", which concern supernal things and cutting off evil shepherds from having dominion over your temple-house, (we are to show them no mercy). At the same time it is cutting off evil and cleaving away unto the heavenly Father into a covenant relationship. Three evil shepherds HaNavi Zkaryah cut off in one month: "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me. Then said I, I will not feed you: that which dies off, let it die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of its neighbor. And I took my staff, even "Kindness", and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people, (of his "land"). And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the Word of YHWH, (no more showing kindness to the evil shepherds). And I said unto them, If you think it good, give me my price, ("sakariy") and if not, forbear. So they weighed for Sikariy thirty pieces of silver. And YHWH said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: the goodly price that I was prized at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of YHWH. Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even "Union", that I might break the brotherhood between Yhudah and Yisrael. And YHWH said unto me, Take unto yourself yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. For, behold, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, who shall care not for the perishing, nor seek the wandering, nor heal the maimed, nor nourish the sound, but shall devour the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs. Woe to the idol shepherd that abandons the flock: the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened!
Therefore Yeshua says: "If your right hand offends you, cut it off, and cast it from you", which is surely related to the passage above and the "evil shepherds", and likewise, "If your right eye offends you, pluck it out and cast it from you", which is again surely related to the idol shepherd which rises up in "the land" of every man to try him. For the right arm of the idol shepherd shall be clean dried up; and the right eye of the idol shepherd is utterly darkened. The lamp-light to light the inside of the body of the man is the eye: if therefore your eye be single-focused, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!
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If we have seen Jesus The Christ of God Truly "SEEN" Him.....Blepo....and what He has accomplished through The Finished Works, then we....also have the same Authority as The Son/The Word.
We cannot Judge Righteously without first becoming The Word.
As daq said, The Word was in him and him in The Word. We are to keep The charge of The House, when others have gone astray. Ezk. 44:......We minister unto God by doing these things also.
There is more, that I'm sure others will add. But I have to go for now, be back in about an hour.
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daq
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Hahaha, believe me I still do get that quite a lot, and it seems to get worse all the time, so truly it is a pleasure to have chanced upon this thread. I will do my best to come back later and for now give others a chance to respond. May the High Priest bless your Bread and Wine.
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
Just a few thoughts for all here to consider
"9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." ( 1 Cor 6:9,10)
"19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."(Galatians 5:19-21)
and where do they end up?
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
and how long will they be there for?
"...cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)
"9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." ( 1 Cor 6:9,10)
"19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."(Galatians 5:19-21)
and where do they end up?
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
and how long will they be there for?
"...cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
and the gospel is
"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:" (1 Cor 15"1-5)
and notice only those who received/believed this will be saved. All unbelievers will end up where?
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
and what if someone preaches another gospel?
"6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:6-8)
"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:" (1 Cor 15"1-5)
and notice only those who received/believed this will be saved. All unbelievers will end up where?
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
and what if someone preaches another gospel?
"6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:6-8)
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
Also, read.
"
Mark 3:29
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."
eternal is for ever and ever as we read of eternal life and the eternal God etc.
"
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Eternal in Greek
from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
"
Mark 3:29
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."
eternal is for ever and ever as we read of eternal life and the eternal God etc.
"
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Eternal in Greek
from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
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jugghead
Growing
This is just a simple understanding but it was how it started with me ...
It was December 12, 2005 that I experienced the circumcision of the heart (the renting of the veil), but not until 9 years and 47 days later (February 7, 2015) did I hear for the first time directly from Him "You are my Son", I was so overwhelmed with His love I could not help but have my eyes overflow with tears. (Which I find no coincidence that 9 is the number of judgment (9 years) and that 47 was how old I was at the time of this experience (9 years 47 days)).
Because He Himself is our inheritance, we receive (are given) also everything He possesses ... but knowing that it was Him who we sought after not what He possessed ... and since we receive (have been freely given) also ... everything He has ... we have been given the authority to execute judgment.
This word "judgment" in its simplest form is "a tribunal" ... it is a court setting that He brings us into to hear both sides of a case, He puts us in the seat of the judge and presents His case (persuades us [walking in faith, walking in His persuasion]) that what He will not only tell us ... but also show us ... is the truth.
We have completely believed what men have taught us as truth, that was hearing the case from the POV of men ... He then ... HIMSELF ... through Christ by His Spirit (three cords)... presents His side of the case.
But, when we know that what we are being told and shown by the Father through Christ by His Spirit ... there is no way we can even disagree with what is shown us and that is because it becomes part of our being ... what is told and shown us comes alive in us ... Christ comes alive in us ... and by that we have these things (Life/authority/Sonship) added to us (a better understanding of these things) because we first sought Him not what He possessed.
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