Which Protestant Body...

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Amen
yes, but the only place where they can be understood and read is in the life of the Church that wrote them, brought them together, and established the why and when to read them. take yourself out of that Church, and all one is left with is himself. this is rarely intentionally done. it's just all that is left.
 
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~Anastasia~

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It may also be worth noting that TT has become anything but, at times. There are posters from very non-traditional backgrounds there, posting very non-traditional views, and I for one am waiting to see how moderation plays out before addressing that there. At the same time, we suddenly have many non-Orthodox posting here, and debating and teaching going on by non-Orthodox and even non-Christians at time - which is not the norm nor within the rules, even though much of it has been polite debate and accurate teaching. Perhaps it is because of the recent platform change that this has happened, and I am not sure what everyone else is thinking - but in a sense we seem to be losing what we had, so there may be some reaction to that.

I am hoping both will return to something more "normal". But TAW has always been welcoming to non-Orthodox, and I think that is a strength and would hope that continues - without changing who we are here.

I'm not complaining or rebuking - just stating observations of "how things are" over the past couple of months with an eye to explaining why there might be less tolerance than is normal in some cases.
 
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Not sure who you are talking about but I have seen nobody "denigrating" anyone in here then getting testy and butt-hurt. It's not that Orthodox or this "one poster" of whom you speak can't take the heat so they want you out of the kitchen, it's that there are degrees, bro. You can ask a question of our church, rebuts and continue to ask clarification, ask WHY we have a certain view and try to work through it, but if you escalate it or start to state opinions in inflexible, quasi-dogmatic, or didactic terms and get preachy or too firm and debateish, people will ask you to take it to St. Justin's. Simple, clear, fair....

Best of luck and blessings in ICXC

I do take it as a friendly suggestion and thank you for taking the time to say what you have.

The reason it doesn't work (for me) is that it's not possible to rely upon "generally speaking." It takes only one person to play that "our forum" card when the discussion doesn't go his way, and then, too, the restrained way of wording things that you describe only works when BOTH sides are adopting that tone.

Obviously, I'd say, the visitor cannot hold himself to that standard when the other party feels free to draw the visitor out, question him, and then denigrate the visitor's church, beliefs, etc. in very uncharitable terms. Unfortunately for everyone else, there are such people, even though there are more who are not that way. You know, it's just unclear to a lot of us on CF when visitors can visit and what they can say, and what is going to get them accused of intruding.

But all that aside, I appreciated your comments.
 
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Anhelyna

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I'll echo Kylissa - and after all I'm non-Orthodox into the bargain.

Some of the recent threads have really sent my eyebrows sky high - I would never have dreamt of commenting the way some posters [ non TAW members I hastily add ] have done recently. I've thought and thought at times about making reports - but so much of what has been posted has been polite. I actually wondered if it was me who had changed :(
 
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~Anastasia~

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Ah, I haven't looked. Things they ARE a changin'. I haven't bothered to check TAW for them, but I know TT rules have been unchanged, in theory at least.

I hope this doesn't dissolve. I don't want to lose contact with everyone I've met here. I've built more of a community on FB than I had initially (it was at first just a place to "collect" things, because there are too many voices there that - are just too out there).

But I no longer participate in any other Orthodox forum - just this one and my friends list on FB (I don't have much to do with most of the groups there) ... so I hope this one stays Orthodox and it doesn't die.
 
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What would you like us to say to you CelticRebel? That we think if one is not Orthodox, well that's just all hunky dory and good for you?

I asked you specific questions and raised some specific objections to your worldview on Christianity and you have not addressed them. I was hoping you would go back and re-read the tread and see for yourself, but apparently you are not doing that. So, that means I'm going to have to reiterate for you and do the research for you (which apparently, a lot of people on the internet expect others to do for them) and delineate what questions/objections you did not addressed.

But not now, I have other things to do.
 
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It's not that we're sensitive and don't like to be questioned, it's THE FORUM RULES. Safe haven. We come into TAW as Orthodox Christians to discuss our faith, be edified by one another's journeys and knowledge, prayer life, and insights. I come here to interface with folks who share my Orthodox values and theological mindset. I live in an area where there is no Orthodox Church for at least one hour north or south. Nobody in my entire town of 125,000 people except for around 10 people are Orthodox!!! We come here to discuss the True Church---Orthodoxy.

Now we TOTALLY WELCOME visitors like yourself. You ask a question, we answer. You ask another one, we answer. You ask "why?" about our answer--awesome. You start stating your opinions about our beautiful faith not in the interrogative but in the declarative sense and repeatedly tell us why we're wrong and you're right and you refuse to join us because x, y, and z and tell us how wrong we are and mistaken, have people answer your questions only to repeat the concern and not listen, make more declarative statements, you're now "teaching" in our subforum. It's just not allowed and frankly not something I come in here for. I don't want a Protestant teaching me what I "should" be doing as an Orthodox Christian.

Like I said, you can either take it the right way---you are a visitor who is VERY welcome on many levels, but you need to respect rules, or you can break the rules and start being a teacher and debater and then complain that we're a let-down because we called you on it and tried to dial you in a bit, then leave mad. I hope you choose the first one. I for one hope you convert to Orthodoxy, but if you don't, I wish you God's peace and blessings, His Love, and joy! I wish you well no matter what you do, just want the rules followed and the teaching stuff kept away.

Yes, that is the situation I found myself in. And as much as I have valued and learned from these discussions, that's why I haven't been back in a few days, and why I'll probably limit myself from now on. It's a shame, really, but I've encountered the same attitudes on other denominational forums. Some either can't be objective or don't want to be, and don't like their beliefs being questioned. Thankfully, that hasn't happened much here, much less so than a fundamentalist forum I was on. Frankly, one way of determining truth is to put beliefs side--by-side, compare and contrast them, debate them, and see which has the strongest case. But if disagreement can't be stated, if all we can do is sit around the campfire singing "Kum Ba Ya", what's the point of questioning and discussion?
 
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that's right gurney, and to some other posters here, it would help if you wouldn't try to appease such behavior. There's a time and a place to be diplomatic, but being diplomatic does not mean tolerating bad behavior or making excuses for yourselves. Not that anyone has done that quite to that level on this tread, but it has come close.
 
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dzheremi

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if disagreement can't be stated, if all we can do is sit around the campfire singing "Kum Ba Ya", what's the point of questioning and discussion?

Are these our only options, though? Either 'sit around a campfire singing "Kum Ba Ya"' or preach to the EO how they're wrong on their own board, when they already have a subforum for doctrinal arguing (which is not where you posted this thread)? That strikes me as a false dichotomy, but it's one that is very popular on the internet. "You have to let me use your space to preach whatever I want, even if it is diametrically opposed to the entire reason your space exists in the first place, otherwise you're stifling discussion/debate/free speech!"

That doesn't wash. Just be respectful and accept the answers given to the question (you don't have to accept them as being true, of course, but you should respect them as answers to the question from the EO perspective that you were asking for). If you have other questions, fine, but can you really blame the EO for not taking a question like "Which Protestant body is closest to you?" as an invitation to be preached and lectured to, and for reacting negatively when it turns into that? I wouldn't, and I'm not even one of them.
 
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All4Christ

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But your view assumes two things: That the majority is always correct, and that the majority has a right to enforce its decisions. I reject both conclusions. Individuals often hold the correct view, and rule my majority enforcement led to state church suppression and atrocities. And there is one other thing that is most important in all this: It is neither safe nor wise to let others determine the truth for you.
You are making assumptions about my view that are incorrect. I do not believe that the majority is always correct, as I have stated in other threads. I do, however, believe that the deposit of faith was entrusted to the apostles and passed down through the ages. Please don't tell me that I am being unwise in believing the Orthodox Church is true. I have come to these conclusions through careful thought and research, and I am sharing my journey. Take it or leave it, but don't say that I am unwise.
 
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"I think you should respect the fact that there are other legitimate Christian Bodies. Even if I am not Orthodox at present, I respect the fact that the EOC is a legitimate Christian Body. I just don't think it is the only one. If that offends you, I would suggest the problem lies with you and not with me."

I'm not offended at all! I think you are the one that is offended by our legitimate claim to be the Body that Christ promise He would build.

This claim is obviously to you, a "skandalon" a stumbling block.
 
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All4Christ

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No, no, I didn't say that about you specifically, or that you are unwise in believing the Orthodox Church is true. That's not what I meant. I was talking about the different ways or criteria that people use to determine truth. I would never presume to say that about you specifically.
CR, based on our conversations; getting to know you, albeit online; and what you wrote here, I don't think you were specifically thinking of me (I was very tired last night); however (and please consider how this sounded to me), it is hard to not take it personally when it is implied that:

A. To believe in a Church that follows Holy Tradition and to trust that the deposit of faith being kept safe through the Church means that you are believing what someone else tells you to believe.
B. Believing something because someone else tells you to believe it is unwise and not safe.
C. Members of the Orthodox Church (and Catholics, OO, etc.) believe and trust that the Church has kept the deposit of faith and that Christ has enabled the Church to maintain the truth over the years (hence listening to Tradition). Thus, we believe the teachings the Church teaches (albeit not blindly).


Logically, if point A matches what you are trying to say, and Point C is true, then Point B refers to the type of faith and determination of truth used by all of us here at TAW.

We all have closely looked at Scripture, the ECFs, Church History, and determined that we believe the Church to be true and to guide us in truth. That said, for you to say it is unwise to follow point B, it feels like you are indirectly implying that many of us are doing that - even if you aren't referring to me personally.

I enjoy talking with you and am really glad you are here, but I wanted to let you know what it sounds like to us. I'm not trying to say that you intend to say that about us individually- far from it - but your comments indirectly reflect on our decisions (which frustrates me, especially when I respect the other person). Does this make sense? Please take this as a friendly explanation...a sincere expression of how I feel when I hear that (from many people, not just from this post).
But your view assumes two things: That the majority is always correct, and that the majority has a right to enforce its decisions. I reject both conclusions. Individuals often hold the correct view, and rule my majority enforcement led to state church suppression and atrocities. And there is one other thing that is most important in all this: It is neither safe nor wise to let others determine the truth for you.
 
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Antony in Tx

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It's one thing to say I don't think the EOC is the "one true Church"...you are stating your view.... But when you say I don't think you should call yourself that and I think you should recoginize others are valid "denominations" .... You are no longer expressing your view but are now teaching, despite any claims to the contrary. It appears to me some say they just want an exchange of ideas but really are looking for a "win" .... I hope I am wrong and very well may be.

I think you have hit the nail right on the proverbial head, PistolPete!
 
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~Anastasia~

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I think the moderators should either shut this tread down, or move it to St Justin

This is a good idea - I have sent it to the mods for their consideration.

We are now debating over whether we are debating ...
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Admin Hat...

Alright, this thread was closed for a cleaning; and it is now open.

I will close it down for good, and make sure there are staff actions handed out if this past derailment and violations of the Congregational rule continue.

While this thread is about the relationship of the Anglican Church with the Catholic Church, this is still OBOB; the Catholic Forum. As such Anglicans, or any one other than a Catholic may not debate, teach, argue, of flog a dead horse; even if it is their own horse.

This is the final word!

Thread is now open.

Mark
Christian Forums Administrator.

PS: Please take that horse elsewhere.

DEAGON%20DEAD-UP.jpg
 
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