GregConstantine
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- Aug 27, 2012
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words on paper have to be interpreted. It is impossible to read anything in a vacuum.
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yes, but the only place where they can be understood and read is in the life of the Church that wrote them, brought them together, and established the why and when to read them. take yourself out of that Church, and all one is left with is himself. this is rarely intentionally done. it's just all that is left.
I do take it as a friendly suggestion and thank you for taking the time to say what you have.
The reason it doesn't work (for me) is that it's not possible to rely upon "generally speaking." It takes only one person to play that "our forum" card when the discussion doesn't go his way, and then, too, the restrained way of wording things that you describe only works when BOTH sides are adopting that tone.
Obviously, I'd say, the visitor cannot hold himself to that standard when the other party feels free to draw the visitor out, question him, and then denigrate the visitor's church, beliefs, etc. in very uncharitable terms. Unfortunately for everyone else, there are such people, even though there are more who are not that way. You know, it's just unclear to a lot of us on CF when visitors can visit and what they can say, and what is going to get them accused of intruding.
But all that aside, I appreciated your comments.
Yes, that is the situation I found myself in. And as much as I have valued and learned from these discussions, that's why I haven't been back in a few days, and why I'll probably limit myself from now on. It's a shame, really, but I've encountered the same attitudes on other denominational forums. Some either can't be objective or don't want to be, and don't like their beliefs being questioned. Thankfully, that hasn't happened much here, much less so than a fundamentalist forum I was on. Frankly, one way of determining truth is to put beliefs side--by-side, compare and contrast them, debate them, and see which has the strongest case. But if disagreement can't be stated, if all we can do is sit around the campfire singing "Kum Ba Ya", what's the point of questioning and discussion?
if disagreement can't be stated, if all we can do is sit around the campfire singing "Kum Ba Ya", what's the point of questioning and discussion?
You are making assumptions about my view that are incorrect. I do not believe that the majority is always correct, as I have stated in other threads. I do, however, believe that the deposit of faith was entrusted to the apostles and passed down through the ages. Please don't tell me that I am being unwise in believing the Orthodox Church is true. I have come to these conclusions through careful thought and research, and I am sharing my journey. Take it or leave it, but don't say that I am unwise.But your view assumes two things: That the majority is always correct, and that the majority has a right to enforce its decisions. I reject both conclusions. Individuals often hold the correct view, and rule my majority enforcement led to state church suppression and atrocities. And there is one other thing that is most important in all this: It is neither safe nor wise to let others determine the truth for you.
CR, based on our conversations; getting to know you, albeit online; and what you wrote here, I don't think you were specifically thinking of me (I was very tired last night); however (and please consider how this sounded to me), it is hard to not take it personally when it is implied that:No, no, I didn't say that about you specifically, or that you are unwise in believing the Orthodox Church is true. That's not what I meant. I was talking about the different ways or criteria that people use to determine truth. I would never presume to say that about you specifically.
But your view assumes two things: That the majority is always correct, and that the majority has a right to enforce its decisions. I reject both conclusions. Individuals often hold the correct view, and rule my majority enforcement led to state church suppression and atrocities. And there is one other thing that is most important in all this: It is neither safe nor wise to let others determine the truth for you.
It's one thing to say I don't think the EOC is the "one true Church"...you are stating your view.... But when you say I don't think you should call yourself that and I think you should recoginize others are valid "denominations" .... You are no longer expressing your view but are now teaching, despite any claims to the contrary. It appears to me some say they just want an exchange of ideas but really are looking for a "win" .... I hope I am wrong and very well may be.
I think the moderators should either shut this tread down, or move it to St Justin