The Popes role in last 42 months

Straightshot · Jul 30, 2015

"The Daniel 8 little horn IS Abaddon from Rev. 9 BUT Daniel 7s little horn is the pope who got a mortal head wound in 1798. The ten horns from Daniel 7 are not the same as the ten horns from Revelation 13. Daniel 7 is 1260 years during the middle ages, Revelation 13 is 42 months during our end time tribulation."

Nay ..... not different, all the exact same little horn .... Daniel 7:7-25 is not describing a Pope of the RCC

This is the same little horn .... a future king of the northern Middle East [Micah 5:5-6] .... not a Pope of the RCC

You are following SDA thelogy which I consider to be totally off course for many reasons

Douggg · Jul 30, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
Your list of 7 Kings can't be the 7 heads on the sea beast. Think about it, the beast already has ten kings with diadem crowns of authority. Will the beast have 17 Kings? These are not heads of authority, they're religious in nature. All 7 are in operation right now and all peoples are connected to one of them. I am a member of the new one that's only here for "a short space".

Dave, the 7 kings are sequential as compared to the ten kings which rule concurrent with each other, at the same time. Not a total of seventeen kings ruling at the same time.

The ten kings give their"kingdom" singular to the beast. The beast is reigning that last 42 months. Which the last 42 months has not begun yet. So it is not possible for the ten kings themselves to have been list of peoples you gave. Which are not kings even in your analysis, because those peoples spanned generations.

I can prove it using analysis of the crowns/no crowns on the head of the beast. In Revelation 17, there are no crowns on the heads, the seven kings; and no crowns on the horns, the ten kings. Simply because in the first century, the time of the sixht king ruling, neither prophecy had been fulfilled.

In Revelation 12, the 7 years are in the text as the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6, before the future war in heaven; and the time, times, and half times afterward - to total the 7 years. Which the heads have their crowns - indicating with 7 years to go, king 7 has come to power, completing the prophecy of the 7 kings. The horns do not have their crowns, because the ten kings are not ruling with the beast - who has not come to power at the beginning of the 7 years.

In Revelation 13, with 42 months to go, the beast has come to power as the eighth king. So the ten horns have their crowns. But the seven heads do not, as the prophecy of the 7 kings is over at that point, with the 7th king having been mortally wounded.

In Revelation 17:10, it says the 7th king, the one yet to come - that when he comes he must continue for a short space...."and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." The short space is that last 42 months, as the 8th king.

Douggg · Jul 30, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
The little horn of Daniel 7 had to be 100's of persons because he spanned the time from 538 to 1798 when his prophetic authority of 1260 years ran out.

The little horn of Daniel 8 is going to be one single individual who's prophetic authority will be only 42 months.

I have a hunch that Our Little Horn is going to get more work done in much less time than the first one. It's like the difference between an antichrist and The Antichrist.

Dave, the little horn is one person, not hundreds, because it is a "he" in the text and not a "they". Even the ten kings are of one kingdom, not ten kingdoms, the fourth kingdom as it says in the text.

There is no 1260 years in the text of Daniel 7; it is a time, times, and half times which is an expression which is not exactly 1260 days in length, close but not exact. The time, times, and half times in Daniel 7 equates to the time, times, and half times in Revelation 12:14 that Satan has when the future war in the second heaven takes place and Satan with his angels are restricted to earth. It says that he has but a little time left when that future event takes place - which is nominally (not exactly) 3 1/2 years.

The little horn in Daniel 8 is the same person who is the little horn in Daniel 7. The difference is in Daniel 8, he will have been the leader of the EU for a short while when he assembles his army in the territory of one the former Greek empire break-up kingdoms - currently that area is Greece, the eastern most frontier of the EU.

From there he heads south and east toward Israel. In Daniel 9, he is referred to, accordingly, as the Prince who shall come.

It is then, we have to put on our eschatological detective hats.... to realize following Gog/Magog there is a 7 year period, until the battle of Armageddon, Ezekiel 39:17-20. Plus, we have to know from our knowledge of Judaism that they believe the messiah will fight the battles of God in defendng Israel. Therein lies the missing pieces to the puzzle.

And from Judaism, we learn about the schmita, the 7 year cycle, which after discussing with the Jews themselves, that the Deuteronomy 31:9-13 commemorative reading of the law requirement on that 7 year cycle has not been done for 2000 years - because the religious Jews have not controlled the temple mount - which the Jews take to be the place of God's choosing where the reading must take place - and cannot take place as long as the Muslims have control of the temple mount.

We put all those pieces together and see why the little horn in Daniel 8, heading down toward Israel, with a strong army, as Gog/Magog looms on the horizon will be perceived by the Jews that he is their long awaited messiah - and that God supernaturally destroys the muslim invaders - to the Jews will appear that the way has been paved for their messiah and the beginning of the messianic era.

The Pope doesn't have any military, the pope does not have ten concurrently ruling kings of one kingdom, the Pope is not a Jew who's religion is Judaism. Plus, since the person is an individual, not hundreds of persons, we have to attach a name to the little horn, beyond whatever office he holds, even in my scenario of the leader of the EU. There may be a series of presidents (or whatever office title it actually turns out to be) of the United States of Europe similitude, when it materializes.
Very close to happening, imo. The little horn person is not necessarily the first leader (although most likely he will be). I don't know the person's name yet, but I am sure that it is not going to be Peter the Roman.

Dave Watchman · Jul 31, 2015

Douggg said:
Dave, the 7 kings are sequential as compared to the ten kings which rule concurrent with each other, at the same time. Not a total of seventeen kings ruling at the same time.

Are you saying that you think the Revelation 13 beast will have 7 sequential and 10 concurrent kings ruling within a 42 month period? Where do you get the idea of 7 sequential kings?

Douggg said:
The ten kings give their"kingdom" singular to the beast. The beast is reigning that last 42 months. Which the last 42 months has not begun yet.

This is so sweet, I agree with every word in the above two sentences. Nice.

Douggg said:
So it is not possible for the ten kings themselves to have been list of peoples you gave. Which are not kings even in your analysis, because those peoples spanned generations.

It is if they are a historical fact. I urge you to review the specifications for the little horn of Daniel 7 and compare them with the stern faced king of Daniel 8. They are two different guys that have authority during two completely different prophetic time periods. The little horn from Daniel 7 was a punk, he could never come near to be as "great as the Prince of the host".

Douggg said:
I can prove it using analysis of the crowns/no crowns on the head of the beast. In Revelation 17, there are no crowns on the heads, the seven kings; and no crowns on the horns, the ten kings. Simply because in the first century, the time of the sixht king ruling, neither prophecy had been fulfilled.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here.<-(I didn't intend for that to sound harsh, I'm just having trouble understanding your statement) The Revelation beast with 7 Heads and 10 horns has zero to do with the 1st century or the 10 tribal kings during the fall of Rome.

Douggg said:
In Revelation 12, the 7 years are in the text as the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6, before the future war in heaven; and the time, times, and half times afterward - to total the 7 years. Which the heads have their crowns - indicating with 7 years to go, king 7 has come to power, completing the prophecy of the 7 kings. The horns do not have their crowns, because the ten kings are not ruling with the beast - who has not come to power at the beginning of the 7 years.

Revelation 12 has two separate apocalyptic prophecies and two different prophetic time periods that run concurrent with one another. The "1,260 days" and the "time, and times, and half a time" are 1260 actual years and are identical to Daniel 7's "time, and times, and half a time". This was from 538 until 1798, when the woman was nourished. Chronological order is never broken until chapter 14 when the prophecy ends. So if you can figure out where the "earth" is that helped the "woman", you should be able to figure out where the second beast of chapter 13 (Antichrist) rises up from.

Douggg said:
In Revelation 13, with 42 months to go, the beast has come to power as the eighth king. So the ten horns have their crowns. But the seven heads do not, as the prophecy of the 7 kings is over at that point, with the 7th king having been mortally wounded.

As you can imagine I'm still not quite with you. I agree with Rev. 13, we have 42 months to go. But the Antichrist will come to power as the 8th king when he rises from the earth. This is an extension of our succession of world religious systems. After Protestantism will come the one world Harlot religion, Lucifer claims to be God, calls fire down from the sky and sets up a world wide Theocracy. I'd like to have seen Daniel 7's little horn do that in the middle ages. He might have presented more of a struggle for General Berthier in 1798.

Also, do you notice the script: "seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed".
The Head is not wounded during the 42 months, it's mortal wound is already "healed" when it rises from the sea. That's because it was wounded previously in 1798 when the Vatican was closed down all the way until the Lateran treaty of 1929.

Douggg said:
In Revelation 17:10, it says the 7th king, the one yet to come - that when he comes he must continue for a short space...."and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." The short space is that last 42 months, as the 8th king.

I'm sorry Doug, I wish that you were right. The 7th Head is the holy mountain of Protestantism. The short space as of now is 1517 to 2015? = 498 years. Even when compared with Atheism or Eastern Mysticism, it still makes it look like there won't be too long to wait.

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
Are you saying that you think the Revelation 13 beast will have 7 sequential and 10 concurrent kings ruling within a 42 month period? Where do you get the idea of 7 sequential kings?

No, I am saying that the 7 kings are sequential. 5 were before John's time in the first century. The sixth was ruling in the first century. The 7th is future, end times.

The 7th right before the 42 months begin is mortally wounded and come back to life as king eight the beast.

The beast is in power that last 42 months. His power base is the EU, which will be governed otherwise by ten leaders, kings.
Those kings are end times, not his history.

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here.<-(I didn't intend for that to sound harsh, I'm just having trouble understanding your statement) The Revelation beast with 7 Heads and 10 horns has zero to do with the 1st century or the 10 tribal kings during the fall of Rome.

You have to understand the reason for the crowns/no crowns in Revelation 17 (1st century), Revelation 12 (the beginning of the 7years), Revelation 13 (the beginning of the last 42 months).

That analysis proves that the ten kings are not historic, but end times.

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
Revelation 12 has two separate apocalyptic prophecies and two different prophetic time periods that run concurrent with one another. The "1,260 days" and the "time, and times, and half a time" are 1260 actual years and are identical to Daniel 7's "time, and times, and half a time". This was from 538 until 1798, when the woman was nourished. Chronological order is never broken until chapter 14 when the prophecy ends. So if you can figure out where the "earth" is that helped the "woman", you should be able to figure out where the second beast of chapter 13 (Antichrist) rises up from.

It is not years, but literal days. No, the two time frames in Revelation 12 are not concurrent. They are sequential, one follows the other.

After their 1260 day prophecy time (in the text of Revelation 11), the two witnesses lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem 3 1/2 days. They will have been killed by the beast. That leaves 1256.5 days in the 7 years. The bible, therefore, uses the term 42 months - close, but not exactly 1260 days.

Therefore, after overcoming the two witnesses bringing judgments on the world, the world rejoices, and in Revelation 13 say who can make war against the beast, in their adulation.

In addition, after the 3 1/2 days, there is the war in the second heaven; it doesn't say how much earth time passes for that. Thus, the time left for Satan once he is cast down is given as a time, times, and half times.

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
Also, do you notice the script: "seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed".
The Head is not wounded during the 42 months, it's mortal wound is already "healed" when it rises from the sea. That's because it was wounded previously in 1798 when the Vatican was closed down all the way until the Lateran treaty of 1929.

It's 42 literal months, not years.

The person who becomes the 7th king will have been killed right before the 42 months. In the middle of the 7 years.

God has him killed for going into the temple sitting and claiming to be God. It is in Ezekiel 28:1-10.

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

So that verse in Ezekiel 28 is hinting us to go back and look in Daniel....

What happens is the guy, because of his tremendous ego and success up to that point, begins to think he has achieved God-hood. In Daniel 8, we read that his success is not by his own power; he is into craft, occultism - which in the Jewish
sense, relates as Kabbalah.

In Ezekiel 28 above he magnifies himself in his heart.... now look at Daniel 8:

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

So, in Daniel 8, the person commits the transgression of Desolation - he stops the daily sacrifices, goes into the temple claims to be God. God in response, has the person killed in Ezekiel 28:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

So, God calls him the terrible of the nations; has him killed for claiming to be God. In Isaiah 14, we take a look at him, after being killed (the mortally wounded head, king, of Revelation 13).

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Okay, God has had him killed and he is in the place of the dead.

But God has such disdain for the person, he doesn't let him rest there.

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

When the person transgresses the covenant, at the time he will be the King of Israel, betraying his own people and the promised land. God has him killed, then in then in such disdain for the person brings him back to life...

Which accounts for the miraculous recovery from the mortal wounding in Revelation 13, right before the 42 months begin.

Straightshot · Aug 1, 2015

My comment

The "7 kings" are the human king "positions" of the 7 Middle Eastern kingdoms of Satan's beast .... not 7 human kings of Rome or any other end time human kings during the coming tribulation

Satan's beast has ruled over 5 of the 7 human kingdoms and related human king "positions" [there have been many individual kings involved, even within each kingdom] .... it is the "position" of the human king that is subjected to Abaddon/Apollyon for each of the 7 kingdoms assigned

This fallen angel was then sent to the abyss after the 5th kingdom fell just before the first century [the 6th was the northern Seleucid kingdom and the last human king of this kingdom was Antiochus IV [Daniel 11:21-35]

Abaddon/Apollyon will be released from the abyss to rule over both his 6th and 7th Middle Eastern kingdoms assigned by Satan at the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel [same as the coming tribulation period]

.... and it is the human little horn of Daniel's visions who will be subjected to and fully possessed by Abaddon/Apollyon who will rule over his 6th smaller and expanded 7th kingdoms, one after the other, with 10 other contemporary human kings at the time of the end of this present age [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:26-27 [the other prince that shall come]; 11:36-45: 12:7; Revelation 9:1; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

One also needs to learn that the track of this fallen angelic rule over the human kingdoms of the Middle East in the prophetic visions breaks at the ending of the 5th kingdom .... and resumes again at the beginning of the 6th at the time appointed

.... no other human kingdoms on the earth rule including human king positions is included in any prophetic vision between the 5th [5 "fallen"] and the 6th [the one that "is" .... at the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel .... the time of Jacob's trouble]

The scope of the Lord's prophets is focused upon the Middle East, the Bible is a picture of Middle Eastern culture .... not western, and the last 2000 years of human history is not included in the prophetic scope

This time lapse is the period of the Lord's dispensation of grace still on going as we speak, but will suddenly come to an ending .... and then the visions of the prophets will begin to roll and play out exactly as they are written with 100% accuracy

If one does not understand this limited scope of the prophets, then the confusion over the matter abounds

And this ignorance has been a major contributor to the various divides of professing Christianity that have emerged .... and this has resulted in much of the apostasy that plagues the same to this very day

When men take advantage by using private interpretation of the prophetic scriptures for proprietary self gain by inserting their advantageous views into the void and silence of the Bible prophets, then the off course religious movements corrupt the Lord's Word with all sorts of folly

This is exactly what has happened over the last 2000 from the get go and the reason why people look upon Christianity as a failed religion fraught with error and run by pied pipers with personal ambitions

.... and that it is

The RCC and its leaders began the process .... and many others have joined the foray

The Pope and his particular "church" have been on the ground for centuries, but only seen and defined in scripture as part of great apostasy over the last 2000 years .... that is it .... not other visibility

.... the Bible prophets do not give the Pope any position or recognition in their visions of the time of the end

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Straightshot said:
My comment

The "7 kings" are the human king "positions" of the 7 Middle Eastern kingdoms of Satan's beast .... not 7 human kings of Rome or any other end time human kings during the coming tribulation

Satan's beast has ruled over 5 of the 7 human kingdoms and related human king "positions" [there have been many individual kings involved, even within each kingdom] .... it is the "position" of the human king that is subjected to Abaddon/Apollyon for each of the 7 kingdoms assigned

The bible in the text of Daniel 7 says fourth kingdom, not 7 kingdoms.

One also needs to learn that the track of this fallen angelic rule over the human kingdoms of the Middle East in the prophetic visions breaks at the ending of the 5th kingdom .... and resumes again at the beginning of the 6th at the time appointed

It the fourth kingdom in the text of Daniel 7 that the Kingdom of God takes dominion over all the heathen nations.

.... no other human kingdoms on the earth rule including human king positions is included in any prophetic vision between the 5th [5 "fallen"] and the 6th [the one that "is" .... at the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel .... the time of Jacob's trouble]

The scope of the Lord's prophets is focused upon the Middle East, the Bible is a picture of Middle Eastern culture .... not western, and the last 2000 years of human history is not included in the prophetic scope

The historical prophecies that have already fulfilled, but not the end times prophecies. If not for the Lord limiting those days no flesh will survive (paraphrasing Jesus in Matthew 24).

Straightshot · Aug 1, 2015

Revelation tells you about 7 kingdoms doug ..... the beast has 7 kingdoms [heads]

Daniel begins with the Middle Eastern kingdom that he lived in .... neo-Babylon .... number 3 of the 7

.... and Daniel's 4th is an out growth of the 3rd in his view [number 5 of the 7] .... this 4th will be an outgrowth of the 3rd, but after much time .... at the time appointed

The 5th of the 7 had 2 divides .... one north and one south of Israel ....the Seleucid [Syria/Iraq today] and the Ptolemaic [Egypt today]

.... and the 6th still pending of the northern little horn's kingdom in Daniel's visions [Syria/Iraq] will be expanded into the 7th

The little horn will conquer Egypt during the first 1260 days of the 70th week and add it to his kingdom [Daniel 11:36-40; 11:42]

And it is this same little horn who will enter Israel in his conquest of the Middle East at the middle of the 70th week decreed for Israel and then rule the 7th of the beast's kingdoms for the second 1260 days [42 months] [Revelation 11:2; 13:1-5]

Dave Watchman · Aug 1, 2015

Douggg said:
That analysis proves that the ten kings are not historic, but end times.

This is our point of divergence. I don't think that it matters that much. In other words if the tribulation began tomorrow, all Bible people will be up to speed fast.

I agree that the 10 kings of Revelation 13 are end time, they are the equivalent to the ten toes on Daniel's metal man. It's just that in order to understand that the head who had been healed is the papacy, you'll need to understand that the 10 kings from Daniel 7 are not the same.

I tend to think that if you study the different specifications between the Daniel 7 and 8 little horns that you should see they're not the same guys.

For example, look at all these specifications from the Daniel 8 stern faced king that the Daniel 7 little horn did not do:

He didn't cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground,

And he could never stamp upon them.

He didn't magnify himself even to the prince of the host,

He wasn't able to take away the daily sacrifice,

He wasn't able to cast down the place of the sanctuary,

He's not described as a king of fierce countenance,

He didn't understand dark sentences,

And his power was never mighty,

And by peace he did not destroy many:

He could not stand up against the Prince of princes;

He WAS broken with human hand.

Because he was just a little punk and not our end time Antichrist.

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Straightshot said:
Revelation tells you about 7 kingdoms doug ..... the beast has 7 kingdoms [heads]

No, it doesn't. It says "kings' in the text of Revelation 17. You are deviating from what the text says.

The beast's kingdom is the fourth kingdom - which in Revelation 17:17 it says in the text that the ten kings give their kingdom, singular, to the beast. In Daniel 7:23-24, it identifies in the text that the ten kings are of the fourth Kingdom. There are no 7 kingdoms.

Dave Watchman · Aug 1, 2015

Douggg said:
It's 42 literal months, not years.

That IS funny.

But the fact of the matter is that a study of the 18 prophetic time periods in the books of Daniel and Revelation can clear up the uncertainty. If it could be known for a fact that the 3 instances of prophetic time in Daniel 7 and Revelation 12 are 1260 Years, then it would greatly reduce the amount of wiggle room in deciding where those prophecies belong.

Revelation 12 is an excellent example because there are 2 prophetic time periods:

woman fled into the desert: 1,260 days – Revelation 12:6

woman fled into the desert: Time, times and half a time – Revelation 12:14

If you think that the woman fled into the desert only one time, this is a good time to show how "time, times and half a time is exactly 1260 days. Think about time in geometry terms, like the amount of time it takes the earth to rotate around the sun. It takes a full year for that to happen one time and we make a full circle of 360°.

The bad news is that a study of the prophetic time periods involves figuring out the Jubilee calendar and that's not easy. There's only 3 guys I've ever heard of that did it. Not even the Jews have a proper understanding of it, I read a Hasidic rabbi in an article who was unsure how to count the Jubilee cycles.

But there's no other way around it there's no short cuts. The translation of prophetic time where we get weeks of years comes from the Jubilee calendar and not from Ezekiel laying on his side for 390 days. When Bible guys were confronted with Daniel 9 they knew 70 weeks HAD to be translated because 70 literal weeks wouldn't fit with the prophecy but 490 YEARS did. This is an example of something self evident but with no apparent scriptural instruction.

Then it became apparent that there were other prophetic time periods that did not require translation like the 1000 years of Rev.20 or our 42 months from Rev 13. So who gets to decide? You? Me? The shemitah guy with the beard? The Jubilee calendar guys noticed that it had a logical termination after 7 sets of 70 weeks. With the calendar beginning in the spring of 1437BC, 7 sets of 70 weeks brings us to April 1994. Any prophecy that takes place during the operation of the Jubilee calendar is translated from day to year. Any prophecy that takes place after 1994 would remain in literal time.

The best work that I've seen on the Jubilee calendar was done by Larry Wilson. He made 12 half hour videos, and I'll also post his list of the 18 prophetic time periods and 17 apocalyptic prophecies. Just a heads up Doug, this part 10 starts with him explaining the 6 Daniel time periods.

1. Time, times and half a time
(saints persecuted: 1260 Years– Daniel 7:25)

2. 2,300 evenings and mornings
(until temple restored: 2300 Years– Daniel 8:14)

3. 70 weeks
(determined upon the Jews,: 490 Years – Daniel 9:24,25)

4. Time, times and half a time
(power of the holy people broken: 1260 Days– Daniel 12:7)

5. 1,290 days
(the end of the daily: Literal Days– Daniel 12:11)

6. 1,335 days
(blessed is the one: Literal Days– Daniel 12:12)

7. Half hour of silence
(at the opening of the 7th seal: Literal Time– Revelation 8:1)

8. 5 months
( torture upon those not having the seal of God: Literal Months – Revelation 9:5)

9. Hour, day, month and year
(punctiliar event when war begins: Literal Months – Revelation 9:15)

10. 42 months
(Gentiles trample holy city: Literal Months – Revelation 11:2)

11. 1,260 days
(Two Witnesses empowered for this length of time: Literal Days – Revelation 11:3)

12. 3.5 days
(bodies of Two Witnesses lie in the street: Literal Days – Revelation 11:11)

13. 1,260 days
(woman fled into the desert:1260 Years – Revelation 12:6)

14. Time, times and half a time
(woman fled into the desert:1260 Years – Revelation 12:14)

15. 42 months
( beast was allowed to exercise authority: Literal Months – Revelation 13:5)

16. One hour
(ten kings join with beast: Literal Time – Revelation 17:12)

17. One day, one hour
(Babylon’s destruction begins: Literal Time – Revelation 18:8,19)

18. 1,000 years
(Satan in the abyss: Literal Years – Revelation 20:2)

Prophecy 1 – The Metal Man (Daniel 2:29-45)
Prophecy 2 – The Little Horn Power (Daniel 7:1-12)
Prophecy 3 – The Antichrist (Daniel 8:1-12)
Prophecy 4 – The Seventy Weeks (Daniel 9:20-27)
Prophecy 5 – Wars Between the North & South (Daniel 10:1-12:13)

Prophecy 6 – The Six Seals (Revelation 4:1-6:17)
Prophecy 7 – The 144,000 (Revelation 7:1-8:1)
Prophecy 8 – The Six Trumpets (Revelation 8:2-9:21)
Prophecy 9 – The Two Witnesses (Revelation 10:1-11:19)
Prophecy 10 – The Baby Jesus (Revelation 12:1-6)
Prophecy 11 – The Rise of Babylon (Revelation 12:7-14:5)
Prophecy 12 – The Eternal Gospel (Revelation 14:6-15:6)
Prophecy 13 – The Seven Bowls (Revelation 15:7-16:21)
Prophecy 14 – The Second Coming (Revelation 18:1-19:10)
Prophecy 15 – The Day of the Lord (Revelation 19:11-20:10)
Prophecy 16 – The Earth Purified (Revelation 20:11-21:1)
Prophecy 17 – The New Heaven and New Earth (Revelation 21:2-21:8)

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
For example, look at all these specifications from the Daniel 8 stern faced king that the Daniel 7 little horn did not do:

did not do......in Daniel 7.

Daniel 8 gives information supplemental to Daniel 7.

Douggg · Aug 1, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
That IS funny.

But the fact of the matter is that a study of the 18 prophetic time periods in the books of Daniel and Revelation can clear up the uncertainty. If it could be known for a fact that the 3 instances of prophetic time in Daniel 7 and Revelation 12 are 1260 Years, then it would greatly reduce the amount of wiggle room in deciding where those prophecies belong.

How about focusing on what it actually says in the text? The 1260 days are given in the text in two places of the bible. Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6.

The 1260 days can't be years - because the two witnesses have the time which they testify as 1260 days, which they are then killed by the beast and lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem 3 1/2 days in Revelation 11 - not 3 1/2 years.

There is not any 1260 number stated in Daniel 7. It is a time, times, and half times corresponding to the second half of the 7 years when Satan will be cast down and restricted to earth.

In your time period explanation, you are jumping around. One place the 1260 days is literal days and in another place 1260 years. What is being done is the scriptures are being twisted because you are trying to fit a flawed scenario.

Straightshot · Aug 1, 2015

"There are no 7 kingdoms."

But there are Doug ..... this thinking of yours has skewed your exegetical study .... your attempt to put these things back into the first century in a Roman setting is your problem

Satan's beast has 7 "heads" ..... what are they and why does he have 7 to rule over?

This beast was in the abyss during the rule of Ancient Rome .... and still is .... and will be until he is released to rule over the Middle East again

Daniel and Revelation are 100% compatible on these matters

The "heads" are the human kingdoms over which the beast rules for Satan .... five have fallen .... one is, and the other next .... 7 of them [Revelation 13:1-4]

5 of the kingdoms have fallen over which Abaddon/Apollyon ruled .... then he was not [ruling] .... and still is not

However, he is about to be released to rule over the same region again .... over the human little horn's "smaller" 6th kingdom at first, and then over the next expanded kingdom, the 7th with 10 other human kings from the same region

And when the human little horn is completely possessed by Abaddon/Apollyon at the end of the first 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel .... this destroying angel of the abyss will become the 8th king himself ruling over his 7th and final divided kingdom of iron and clay [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-5; 17:8-18]

Douggg · Aug 2, 2015

Straightshot said:
"There are no 7 kingdoms."

But there are Doug ..... this thinking of yours has skewed your exegetical study .... your attempt to put these things back into the first century in a Roman setting is your problem

Satan's beast has 7 "heads" ..... what are they and why does he have 7 to rule over?

This beast was in the abyss during the rule of Ancient Rome .... and still is .... and will be until he is released to rule over the Middle East again

Daniel and Revelation are 100% compatible on these matters

Daniel and Revelation are 100% compatible - it is fourth kingdom in both books. There is no seven kingdoms in the text of Revelation. It says in the text 7 kings, not kingdoms. My study has not "skewed" the text. Yours has.

Douggg · Aug 2, 2015

Straightshot said:
5 of the kingdoms have fallen over which Abaddon/Apollyon ruled .... then he was not [ruling] .... and still is not

What is your bible basis for making that statement?

Straightshot · Aug 3, 2015

The following verses describe the kingdoms [heads, mountains] of Satan's beast [Revelation 9:11] .... all of them have human king positions

What you do is to attempt to make the kingdoms into arbitrarily selected past Roman kings .... and then to say that there will be a future Euro-centered "Roman king"

Satan's beast is not a human and has lived and ruled long over 7 sequential Middle Eastern kingdoms within the scope of prophecy .... and this beast rules over the human king positions of each of his assigned kingdoms of which 5 are now historical .... the next 2 are still pending .... Rome was not and will not be any of these kingdoms

These kingdoms of Satan's beast will all be replace by this one [Daniel 2:44]

Notice that the symbolic trappings of the beast are given for the last 3 of his past Middle Eastern kingdoms [Revelation 13:1-4]

Your theology is missing Abaddon/Apollyon in Satan's strategy and you have focused upon specific human kings of the ancient Roman Empire .... Abaddon/Apollyon was in the abyss during Rome's rule where he could not interact with humanity

He was sent there after his 5th kingdom fell .... to be released to rule the Middle East again at the time of the end during the 70th week decreed for Israel [Revelation 9:1; 9:11; 11:7; 17:8-18]

Here are his assigned Middle Eastern kingdoms

The early Post flood "land" of magog
The Assyrian Empire
The neo-Babylonian Empire
The Persian Empire
The Seleucid Empire
The unnamed outgrowth of the Seleucid of the little horn
The expanded/divided of the same with 10 other kings [horns]

Revelation
17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The "woman" represents the entire lost world of humanity, past present and future .... and in the case of the beast she also sits on his kingdoms

At the time of the end he will set out to destroy her in one way or another .... Satan's goal is to prevent human immortality and keep humans from discovering the truth about Jesus Christ and His offered salvation

This has been his ambition from the get go [Genesis 3]

If it were possible Satan would wipe all humans on the earth during the coming tribulation [Revelation 12:12; 13:1-4]

The Popes role in last 42 months

Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Member

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Member

Similar threads