Folks, I got awakened very early this morning to deal with a certain situation. I only slept a couple of hours last night. Let me try to get a little more sleep, and I'll gladly continue.
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Actually, I do have a clue, as I have read a lot about it. My question would be then, why do you assume that no one outside the Orthodox Church would prepare properly?
I'm telling you that I have done extensive and in-depth research for 40 years. I always hate to bring this into it, but I have a document to prove that. Even if I didn't, though, that wouldn't change the fact of how long and how diligently I have studied. This subject is of the utmost importance to me.
Actually, Quakers don't follow sola scriptura. They didn't from their beginnings. They believe the Spirit is primary. Their reasoning: They say the scriptures, tradition, and experience are all produced by the Spirit.
With the utmost respect - how can I say this? I have a fear that precisely because you seem to have invested so much intellectually in your conclusions, that you cannot subject them to an authority outside of yourself?
I have found myself in that place (though not with 40 years of research!), and thankfully on a less emotionally invested topic than faith before I had to encounter it within the realm of faith, so I had already "broken" that wall of resolve. Thank God.
Can you entertain the notion that you might be wrong on some of your conclusions? And indeed ... again with utmost respect intended ... even if we leave out the places you may disagree with ECFs, what do you think about your surety of having resolved theological issues beyond a shadow of a doubt that still produce disagreement within some spheres of Christendom, even after decades and indeed, centuries, of discussion by great theological minds?
Because if they did, then they would be IN the Church, and really very few within the Church prepare properly. Reading about it does not give you any context. You seem to be tied to the notion that you know what you would experience if you were to go, and have a prejudice that it would not be good. Otherwise, why would you be resistant to "Come and see."? I'll change that a little for you, "Try a little bite, you might actually like it!"
Yes, I saw that. But I also see that you are adamant that you are right and the Church is wrong on matters such as baptism and ecclesiology. So, and I really am not trying to be unkind - do you REALLY think you might be fallible, and wrong on these things? Or not?Did you read where I said, more that once, that I know I'm not infallible? And that we all see through a glass, darkly? I am included in that "we". And don't worry; you are never disrespectful.
Yes, I saw that. But I also see that you are adamant that you are right and the Church is wrong on matters such as baptism and ecclesiology. So, and I really am not trying to be unkind - do you REALLY think you might be fallible, and wrong on these things? Or not?
And thank you for not taking offense. I am not wishing to be offensive, but thankful I can make a point and you understand where I'm coming from.
And I would have to drive for at least 90 minutes to get to the nearest Orthodox church.
Not everyone can drive. My Dad has reached an age where he has to have a driving test every two years to continue to hold a drivers license.You're not willing to drive 90+ minutes to church, but you're willing to spend hours upon hours on the internet arguing (politely, but still) with people who do? Huh.
"supported by scripture"
According to your interpretation.
CelticRebel you said
I leave my house at just after 8.30am on Sunday - our Liturgy starts at 11am . I'm lucky to be home by 3pm . Oh and we don't have Hours before Liturgy otherwise I'd have to leave even earlier.
This sort of situation is not uncommon - but it's something that many of us do - because we wish to worship Him Who made us.
You're not willing to drive 90+ minutes to church, but you're willing to spend hours upon hours on the internet arguing (politely, but still) with people who do? Huh.
I know that's what you believe about the Orthodox Church, but your believing it doesn't make it so. The facts -- scriptural, historical, scholarly -- don't back it up. Frankly, it is this "One and Only True Church" claim that turns me away.
No, if I say supported by scripture, that's what I mean. If it's only what I think it means, I'll say that.