The Gospel

stevenfrancis said:

All of which are assumed by Paul and his audience.

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Hello my new friend. Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying to LoveofTruth, but I feel as though I agree.

Thank you and God bless you.

2KnowHim said:

Excellence in your understanding anonymouswho.

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Thank you my friend. I only know what God has given me to know. I'm 25, so I'm sure I have much to learn. God has chosen us to spread His beautiful Gospel, and you guys have convinced me that I'm not alone. Here is a website of articles written by many other believers throughout the ages:

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Library.htm

I don't agree with everything on here, but we are not called to trifle over silly matters such as theology (although I always enjoy a good theological conversation); we are called to spread the glorious Good News that Yeshua has overcome, and God has risen Him from the dead that we ALL might live again. He is the Savior of all men, especially us, because He has already given us "eternal life".

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3

I'm sorry my friend. I rant because I haven't had anyone to talk to about this for so long. But how can we not speak of the wonderful thing God has done through His Son Yeshua?

"Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands:
Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious.
Say unto God, How terrible יָרֵא art thou in thy works! through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee.
All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah."

Thank you again for your kind words, and God bless you my friend.

LoveofTruth said:

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. But Hell is the reality where most are going if they do not repent and believe the gospel. Its like going to a doctrine does a person who thinks they are well need a doctor? its only when they realize they are sinners and have sinned against a Holy Loving God and that their sin will separate them from that Loving God who created all things, that they realize hell will be a horrible place to be. Hell is not just horrible for the pain and torment. But for the loss of being with God hope and the regret etc.

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I have several questions for you my friend. I would like to address a few things you wrote while I wait for your reply to the first message I sent you.

I'll start with the above. First, you wrote that their sin will "serperate" them from the "loving" God that created them (of course this is not just separation we are addressing. Our "loving" God is also supposedly going to subject them to excruciating pain and torment: because He loves them?). I'm sorry my friend, but this eternal separation that you speak of is simply not true.

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented (βασανίζω) with fire and brimstone (θεί) in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb" Revelation 14:10

(Click on the Greek and it'll take you to Strong's Concordance)

How can the Holy Lamb be present in the Lake of Fire? If He is a spiritual being, doesn't He know that this fire is able to burn spirits (although spirits do not have flesh with nerves and a central nervous system)? I do not mean to offend you my friend, but this makes absolutely no sense. When we die, all men return to dust. Was the Preacher mistaken when he says:

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are BEASTS.
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all ONE breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for ALL is VANITY.
ALL go unto ONE place; ALL are of the dust, and ALL turn to dust again.
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" Ecclesiastes 3:18

(I will discuss verse 18 later if you have any interest in Revelation)

Everyone dies this first death. The wicked and the righteous alike. But we all have one ר֫וּחַ rauch (spirit).

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit ר֫וּחַ shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

That's twice that the Preacher says the same thing. The flesh returns to the ground, and the spirit returns to the One that gave it.

So this should help us understand some of the prophecies that Isaiah and Yeshua delivered to us, such as this one:

LoveofTruth said:

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. "(Isaiah 66:22-24)

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What is a carcase?

Carcase: the dead body of an animal.

A carcase is flesh, a physically dead body. A spirit cannot be a carcase. These dead bodies are empty of the spirit, because the spirit returns to God. They burn because the flesh IS the wood, hay, and stubble of our spirit.

I'm going to post quite a bit of Scripture. Those with ears to hear, listen to what the Spirit says:

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. " Galatians 5:17

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Romans 8:6

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:53

When the wood, hay, and stubble of our carnal carcase is burned away, and God has refined and purified the Gold, Silver, and Precious Medals of our spirit, then as you quoted:

LoveofTruth said:

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

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I would like to quickly address a few more things. You wrote:

LoveofTruth said:

And yes I know that the lake of fire is the final destination of all heretics and unbelievers that's why I mentioned it so much

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And...

LoveofTruth said:

I will not be touched or hurt by the second death but you may be with the heresy you teach

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Is this really true my friend? First, who is a heretic? Is Universalism a heresy? It was never even argued against until about 300 years after Yeshua. It is never called a heresy by any of the church "fathers".

I see you are very much against "adding to the Gospel". The Catholics have the Sacraments and teach works as a necessity. Are Catholics heretics? There are about 2.5 billion people who claim to be Christian in the world. That's out of about 8 billion people that are currently living. So that's a quarter of the world going to hell already. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. That's half of the Christian population. Now we have 7/8th of the world going to hell, or about 88%. This doesn't even include Jehovah Witnesses, Mormans, Oneness Pentacostals, and the other various Protestant denominations that may practice what you call "heresy".

According to these statistics, death is not swallowed up in victory. If we were to keep score, death is by far the most victorious. God sent His Son to save the entire world, but He failed miserably. I'm sorry my friend, and I hope I don't get in trouble for this, but this idea is blasphemy.

And finally, you wrote:

LoveofTruth said:

Tell me what the second death is to you?

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It is the Lake of Fire. You quoted the beginning of this passage to jugghead, but you left out what this verse means:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by FIRE." 1 Corinthians 3:11

My friend, do you not know that we will judge the world? Do you not know that we will judge angels?

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels?" 1 Corinthians 6:2

We are given at least two criteria that we are to follow when we judge others:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matthew 7:1

"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, TILL he should pay all that was due unto him.
So LIKEWISE shall my heavenly Father do also unto YOU, if ye from your hearts forgive not EVERY one his brother their trespasses." Matthew 18:21

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, BLESS them that curse you, do GOOD to them that hate you, and PRAY for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil AND on the good, and sendeth rain on the just AND on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, EVEN AS your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:43

What did Yeshua mean when he said:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man CAN come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:63

Why, after He said this, does this happen:

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." John 6:66 (ironic verse number)

What does Paul mean when he says:

"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; COMPARING SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither CAN he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Corinthians 2:10

Are we to compare a physical Lake of Fire with a physical lake that is made of fire? Are we to compare a spiritual Lake of Fire with a physical lake that is made of fire. Or are we to compare a spiritual Lake of Fire with a spiritual Lake of Fire?

So my final question is:

"For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God FORBID: yea, let God be true, but EVERY man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Romans 3:3

That is all for now. Thank you my brother and God bless you.