Why do people believe in a Rapture?

I will just say one thing to you .... makes certain that you understand that it is not a trip, but a transformation to immortality .... a state of existence

Immortals can range the Lord's entire universe and will be observing the earth during the tribulation, and beyond

These do not go to some far far away place in a corner of outer space, but will be like the Lord with no boundaries

Straightshot said:

I will just say one thing to you .... makes certain that you understand that it is not a trip, but a transformation to immortality .... a state of existence

Click to expand...

The timing for the change into immortality is at the LAST TRUMP at the same time that the Resurrection of those who died in in Christ -upon Jesus second coming 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 ... not before the Tribulation .

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

"The timing for the change into immortality is at the LAST TRUMP"


The "last trump" for His pre-tribulation ecclesia .... not the one you have picked

Straightshot said:

"The timing for the change into immortality is at the LAST TRUMP"


The "last trump" for His pre-tribulation ecclesia .... not the one you have picked

Click to expand...

Show us the verses saying that the Last Trump will sound BEFORE the Tribulation even begin ?

Straightshot said:

You are scripture picking to suit your exegetical dogma

Click to expand...

That is the method you use to get your 2 Peoples/ 2 Purposes/ 2 Kingdoms/ 2 or more Gospels/ Scripture "Rightly Divided" into 2 Parts/ 2 Last Trumpets/ 2 Second Comings of Christ/ 2 or more Resurrections of the Dead/ Daniel 9 "Gap"/ Replacing the One Seed of Galatians 3:16 with the many seeds doctrine to work.


Luk_6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


Paul said there will be one resurrection of the dead.


Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


Jesus said the same thing.



Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


And so did John.



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,


Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

Riberra said:

The two witnesses will preach 42 months DURING the Tribulation.The Day of the Lord come IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days.
Matthew 24:29-31

Click to expand...

Riberra, Does Malachi 4:4-5 completely go over your head? Read what it said. The Two Witnesses comes on the Day of the Lord.

If you believe the two witnesses comes on the Day of the Lord at the end of the tribulation, that only mean they would testify after the tribulation. Your logic is faulty.

Malachi 4:4-5
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the
Lord.

Now read Rev 11:1-3. It tells you they will preach for the whole 42 months while the temple is still standing before it's destruction during the abomination of desolation. All this means the two witnesses arrives on the first Day of the Lord at the beginning of the tribulation, not the second Day of the Lord at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 11:1-3
11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

You can't argue what the bible has clearly stated unless you refuse to accept it's teaching by in adding your own ideas.

I would take the bible very seriously and not tamper with what's already written inside. If so, a person will suffer the wrath in the tribulation (verse 18) and/or have his name remove from the book of life (verse 19).

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Matthew Twentyfour said:

Riberra, Does Malachi 4:4-5 completely go over your head? Read what it said. The Two Witnesses comes on the Day of the Lord.

If you believe the two witnesses comes on the Day of the Lord at the end of the tribulation, that only mean they would testify after the tribulation. Your logic is faulty.

Click to expand...

I never said that the two witnesses comes on the Day of the Lord at the end of the tribulation.

Read yourself what Malachi 4:5 say : The two witnesses will prophecy BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

Malachi 4:5

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the
Lord.

I don't even know which side of the pre/post tribulation argument this plays into.

But I believe that John the baptist was literally Elijah the prophet.

This prophecy was fulfilled a couple of millenia before the tribulation at the very least IMO.

If you ask me then who the two witnesses are - that's another conversation completely.

IMO they are Enoch and the Apostle John. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Straightshot said:

"What part of after don't you get?After what?"


After the tribulation is over .... the Lord will appear and gather the surviving mortals of the same

This gathering is of mortals and there is no resurrection in this process

Those found believing will enter and populate His millennial kingdom on the earth ..... as mortals

It is just that simple

Your post tribulation theology is bogus

Click to expand...

Christ returns only once,at the 7th and last trump.At that time all shall be changed ALL,not just the saved...The mortal and immortal part is the condition of your soul...Those who are His don't have to worry about the 2nd death because at that time they will put on immortality,those who are not His at that time although changed will have a mortal soul and stand the chance of dying that 2nd death,which is the death of your very soul.........

You can call it bogus all you want,but while you're in it and being deceived by satan,remember these post

Matthew Twentyfour said:

Why would you need to ask what the purpose is if you don't believe there will be a rapture?

I'm not avoiding your question. I'm trying to understand your logic. It's like someone who refuses to believe in God asking a question on how to find God.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ,you're doing a very good job of avoiding.....

Riberra said:

I never said that the two witnesses comes on the Day of the Lord at the end of the tribulation.

Click to expand...

What does this mean you said here?

Riberra said:

The two witnesses will preach 42 months DURING the Tribulation.The Day of the Lord come IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days.
Matthew 24:29-31

Click to expand...

You're not understanding me. I'm telling you there's more than one Day of the Lord. If you think they come on the Day of the Lord after the tribulation, it means they will testify for 42 months after the tribulation. After the tribulation is the beginning of Christ's millennium reign. This is two different event. Is this that hard to understand?

Bottom line is don't combine comments about the two witnesses with the second Day of the Lord happening after the tribulation. There's a separation of 7 years and a misleading error on your part.

n2thelight said:

I beg to differ,you're doing a very good job of avoiding.....

Click to expand...

Believe what you want. I'll make it easy for you.......adios on this topic. Next?

Straightshot said:

"This is because they knew who the "Kenites" are, and would not allow the false doctrine of the Kenites to come into their churches."


Who are the "Kenites" and what was their false doctrine?

Also, you seem to imply that the two witnesses are groupings of people .... how many will there be?

Click to expand...

Read the book of Ezra as to who the kenites are...The two witnesses are just that two...Do you understand what the seal of God is?

n2thelight said:

Christ returns only once,at the 7th and last trump.At that time all shall be changed ALL,not just the saved...The mortal and immortal part is the condition of your soul...

Click to expand...

What happened to the 7 vials? Did we just threw that prophecy out the window?

"You can call it bogus all you want,but while you're in it and being deceived by satan,remember these post"


It is bogus and I believe you are the one who has been deceived ..... do not let the devil snooker you into the tribulation where you will be at risk

Matthew Twentyfour said:

Believe what you want. I'll make it easy for you.......adios on this topic. Next?

Click to expand...

I will and don't make it easy on me,Im good.........We call ourselves Christians,yet can't discuss His Word...Go figure

Matthew Twentyfour said:

Now read Rev 11:1-3. It tells you they will preach for the whole 42 months while the temple is still standing before it's destruction during the abomination of desolation. All this means the two witnesses arrives on the first Day of the Lord at the beginning of the tribulation, not the second Day of the Lord at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 11:1-3
11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

You can't argue what the bible has clearly stated unless you refuse to accept it's teaching by in adding your own ideas.

Click to expand...

It is not so clear unless you look at the text of the whole chapter.
You cannot ignore what does not fit your doctrine.

The location of the temple of God in verse 1 is revealed by the last verse in the chapter.


Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


Does the following verse sound like an earthly city that contains the temple of God and has gotten in a right relationship with God?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.

"Read the book of Ezra as to who the kenites are...The two witnesses are just that two...Do you understand what the seal of God is?

You tell me who the Kenites are and what your rendition of the "seal" is

I know of only one religious cult whose leader focuses his followers on the Kenites

So tell me more

Straightshot said:

"You can call it bogus all you want,but while you're in it and being deceived by satan,remember these post"


It is bogus and I believe you are the one who has been deceived ..... do not let the devil snooker you into the tribulation where you will be at risk

Click to expand...

I can't wait,in fact Im looking forward to it....

Matthew 10:28"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

When the Holy Spirit speaks through me it's going to be an awsome experience...

Matthew 10:19 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak."

You know what hour this is,I know you may not care as you're not gonna be here...

Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

The problem with most,if not all rapturist is the fact that they think the wrath of God and the tribulation are the same and they're not.....

satan comes pretending to be Christ,he dos'nt need to fool the unbelievers,he already has them he's coming after the Church those who should no better...Who is he here to deceive if you'll not gonna be here....

John 16:33
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

During the trib,I will be at peace,and Im not saying it's going to be easy ,but I tell you one thing it's going to be a lot better than the rapturist being deceived by satan himself...

BABerean2 said:

It is not so clear unless you look at the text of the whole chapter.
You cannot ignore what does not fit your doctrine.

The location of the temple of God in verse 1 is revealed by the last verse in the chapter.


Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


Does the following verse sound like an earthly city that contains the temple of God and has gotten in a right relationship with God?

Click to expand...

That depends how well you can convince everyone to believe that gentiles will be wandering around heaven for 42 months during the tribulation.

Revelation 11:2 (GNT) But do not measure the outer courts, because they have been given to the heathen, who will trample on the Holy City for forty-two months.

Revelation 11:2 (KJV) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.