Reluctance to share the gospel due to conservative dominance

RedPonyDriver

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Hi all! This topic interests me in a BIG way...I normally will not self-identify as a Christian because of the hateful nastiness of the conservative/fundamentalist types. I prefer to just live my life in accordance with the words of Jesus found in Matthew 25:31-46. There are some who do a lot of talking but their actions contradict their words. I prefer not to say anything at all and just LIVE my life.

I got "yelled at" by a CF member because I have no children...and that's supposed to be "Christian" behavior? Really? Stuff like that would make me go RUNNING in the other direction. There was a t-shirt that was popular when I was younger...it said something to the effect of Jesus' Fishing Crew...we catch 'em, He cleans 'em.

Let each person work out their salvation, listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying to THEM...What is said to one is not what is said to another.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Well I guess that is between you and God. You have to be fully convinced of what you believe. But believe me I don't want to be in hell and will do all I can to live above sin.

If you are like the rest of humanity, there is NOTHING you can do to live above sin. That is the work of the Holy Spirit IN us. It's not our work, it's His. If you are counting on ANY of your efforts as counting as worthy of Salvation, you've missed the whole idea of Salvation.

An apple tree produces apples. It exerts nothing to do so. It is it's nature to do so. Same for an orange tree. Neither tree could ever produce the fruit from the other, no matter how hard it tried. We are apple trees. God wants oranges. HE changes our nature into orange trees. So, we then produce oranges. But, not from any effort. It comes naturally. If you are exerting anything, except faith in God's work, then you are not an orange tree, but an apple tree. Christ said, "by their fruits you shall know them". He did NOT say "by their efforts you shall know them". The Israelites didn't fail to enter the Promised land because they refused to go on the offensive as they were told to do. They didn't enter because of unbelief. Read Hebrews. And while you're at it, check out 1 John. It isn't our efforts which give victory. It's our faith. The works which numerous Scriptures indicate an expectation of are the natural result of that faith. They don't require any effort. The effort is God's. The route which God's work takes is our faith. It really IS that simple. "My burden is light." Anything of the "Christian life" which seems heavy, isn't from God.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Hi guys,

The reason I single out homosexuality is the bible says the practice will send you to hell. Too many people are making out that God approves of the sin. God loves everybody, and does not desire that they perish. But he has made it very clear that certain habits will send you to hell. He desires that we all live a life, not of sin, but of repentance, turning away from our sins. A person may right now be homosexual, God is not judging them, but he is calling them to change their ways, to repentance. The bible says that the one who is born of God, sins not. Please try to understand the scripture below:

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

When a person knows God, they realize God calls them to live above sin, will we occassionally miss the mark, yes, but we will not abide in sin. Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commands. Keeping what God commands shows Him we love Him. If we just go around breaking his commands, how is that showing love for God.

The problem is that too many people misinterpret those Scriptures to mean that I must prove that I love God by adhering to some list of does and don't's. That's entirely wrong. I have nothing to prove. All I must do is believe that what He said, He is able to work out, without my efforts.

In the OT, God gave specific instructions on HOW to build an altar. He expressly specified that they were never to use dressed stones, but only natural stones, as they were found. He said that if they lifted their tool upon the stone at all that they polluted it and the altar was worthless. That was written for our benefit to demonstrate that any righteousness that is seen in us is NEVER to be via our efforts. If we add ANYTHING to the work of God, we have polluted it and made it worthless. It's NOT God helping me a better person, or God helping me to be obedient. It is ALL God, or it is worthless.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Homosexuality isn't the only sin that the Bible condemns, so you might want to read the New Testament more closely. I distinctly remember Paul speaking quite a bit about gossip and slander as being sins, but the funny thing is that a lot of mainstream churches are packed with gossips, and I don't recall many pastors preaching on that particular subject. Same goes for gluttony, which is in direct opposition to what it says in Corinthians about your body being a temple of the Holy Spirit, and how many church gatherings do we have that serve all sorts of food that shouldn't really be consumed if you're trying to live a healthy lifestyle? So why do you feel the need to single out homosexuality, when there are a bucketload of other sins that even people who call themselves Christians partake in? Just saying, what's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Exactly! I so often see people quoting from Romans 1 to support their personal prejudice against gays. If they were honest and actually followed what Paul was saying, they would realize that the passage they are quoting is the premise of the ultimate teaching that Paul was getting to. His conclusion of what was written in Chapter 1 is chapter 2, which begins, "You, therefore, are without excuse." Paul was not giving justification in chapter 1 for condemning anyone. He was giving justification for his charge that ANY person who names the Name of Christ is a hypocrite if they condemn ANYONE. Sadly, many misuse chapter 1 in their personal vendetta against whatever sin they happen to find revolting. God finds ALL sin revolting, especially self-righteousness and assuming that they are better than ANYONE.
 
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StephanieSomer

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StephanieSomer...I like the way you think!

It isn't me. It's hundreds of readings of Romans. It is a jewel, often over-looked. It's real beauty cannot be seen from an occasional perusal. It takes many, many times through to get the clarity of thought that is there. And it keeps getting better.
 
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StephanieSomer

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I will go to a different area ... but you should not preach a false gospel.

The gospel doesn't include judgement. No where did Christ ever instruct anyone to preach against sin. He commanded to preach "the Good News". Any gospel that DOES include condemnation IS a false gospel. I realize that is an idea that many would scoff at. But, it is what is actually written. It is not our place to condemn ANY sin. That is the sole prerogative of the Holy Spirit. We have no authority to condemn sin, any sin. EXCEPT WITHIN, AND ONLY WITHIN, THE CHURCH.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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The gospel doesn't include judgement. No where did Christ ever instruct anyone to preach against sin. He commanded to preach "the Good News". Any gospel that DOES include condemnation IS a false gospel. I realize that is an idea that many would scoff at. But, it is what is actually written. It is not our place to condemn ANY sin. That is the sole prerogative of the Holy Spirit. We have no authority to condemn sin, any sin. EXCEPT WITHIN, AND ONLY WITHIN, THE CHURCH.

This is true. The great commission does not mention condemnation or calling out sin...it strictly tells us to go into the world and preach the good news. Now, from those simple, easy to understand words, where does one think they have the right or duty to start calling someone's sin out or condemn them for it?

If one looks at the passage "judge not..."...in a basic way what it means is that it is not left to mortal man to judge another's salvation OR sin. Yes, we are called to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect...but we are not, nor will we be this side of heaven.

Unfortunately, too many "Christians" spend their time trying to do God's job of judgment. However, they also forget that by the measure they judge others, they will also be judged. They go off on others regarding this sin or that sin and overlook their own....

Personally...God is the one who judges. My job is to LOVE.
 
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Rajni

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I wanted to share and see if others are in the same boat for the position im in. I'd love to share the gospel, but am reluctant to do so because I do not want to be associated with the more conservative elements that dominate modern day Christianity. I am in no way passing judgement on conservatives but as a liberal Christian I do not espouse the same views on issues like gay rights and hence don't want to be seen as leading people to what in my view is not the correct way to view scripture.

I want to spread the gospel with the caveat of "hey, I am telling you about the liberal Jesus guy who loved everyone, healed everyone and extends grace" not the Jesus that we so often see portrayed by some missionaries.

What are the thoughts of other liberals?
Having been born-again in the conservative
evangelical Christian environment, it’s extremely
hard for me not to associate the term “Christian”
with a flag-waving, Fox News-watching, gun-toting,
desires-of-a-woman’s-heart-presuming culture.

Since evolving from all that, I now have a hard time
calling myself “Christian” without my face twitching.
Fortunately, I have “Catholic Universalist” to fall
back on, opening me up to a new subculture involving
strange looks and raised eyebrows. Life is good. :D

-
 
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Marius27

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It isn't me. It's hundreds of readings of Romans. It is a jewel, often over-looked. It's real beauty cannot be seen from an occasional perusal. It takes many, many times through to get the clarity of thought that is there. And it keeps getting better.
I find it deeply frustrating how often Romans 1 is used to condemn gays. Even Saint Augustine said it refers to heterosexuals and like you said, if Romans 1 is solely referring to gay sin, then his words in Roman 2 would indicate everyone is gay, since everyone is guilty of those sins and is without excuse. Romans 1 is not a tool to beat gay people over the head, but far too many Christians use it (along with the other "anti-gay" verses) just for that purpose.

Now what's gonna happen when gay people feel the brunt end of that weapon being used against them? They're already suffering by how society treats them and their own personal struggles of being different. Are they going to see the love and compassion taught by Jesus when hit by that weapon? No. They will view Christians as hateful and evil and run in the other direction, because they see it as unwelcoming to them. Do conservatives really think God is going to pat them on the back and say, "Good job my child, you caused massive suffering to LGBT people, showed them no love and compassion, and turned them away from me. Well done!"

I don't think so...
 
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Marius27

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Having been born-again in the conservative
evangelical Christian environment, it’s extremely
hard for me not to associate the term “Christian”
with a flag-waving, Fox News-watching, gun-toting,
desires-of-a-woman’s-heart-presuming culture.

Since evolving from all that, I now have a hard time
calling myself “Christian” without my face twitching.
Fortunately, I have “Catholic Universalist” to fall
back on, opening me up to a new subculture involving
strange looks and raised eyebrows. Life is good. :D

-
That's why I call myself a Messianic Jew instead of Jewish Christian. :p
 
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StephanieSomer

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I find it deeply frustrating how often Romans 1 is used to condemn gays. Even Saint Augustine said it refers to heterosexuals and like you said, if Romans 1 is solely referring to gay sin, then his words in Roman 2 would indicate everyone is gay, since everyone is guilty of those sins and is without excuse. Romans 1 is not a tool to beat gay people over the head, but far too many Christians use it (along with the other "anti-gay" verses) just for that purpose.

Now what's gonna happen when gay people feel the brunt end of that weapon being used against them? They're already suffering by how society treats them and their own personal struggles of being different. Are they going to see the love and compassion taught by Jesus when hit by that weapon? No. They will view Christians as hateful and evil and run in the other direction, because they see it as unwelcoming to them. Do conservatives really think God is going to pat them on the back and say, "Good job my child, you caused massive suffering to LGBT people, showed them no love and compassion, and turned them away from me. Well done!"

I don't think so...

Romans 1 has a definite progression of sins being listed. And the progression gets worse as it proceeds. The last sin mentioned is "unmerciful". After mentioning this sin, Paul makes one transitional statement before his announcement in chapter 2, "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

It's clear how gay people respond to that type of treatment. It's also clear in Christ's own teachings how He will respond to those who show no mercy. I fear for them both.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I wanted to share and see if others are in the same boat for the position im in. I'd love to share the gospel, but am reluctant to do so because I do not want to be associated with the more conservative elements that dominate modern day Christianity. I am in no way passing judgement on conservatives but as a liberal Christian I do not espouse the same views on issues like gay rights and hence don't want to be seen as leading people to what in my view is not the correct way to view scripture.

I want to spread the gospel with the caveat of "hey, I am telling you about the liberal Jesus guy who loved everyone, healed everyone and extends grace" not the Jesus that we so often see portrayed by some missionaries.

What are the thoughts of other liberals?

Hmm liberal here, I find when I quote scripture in liberal circles, less people talk to me. It's kind of a drag.

I tend to preach via telepathy and the like, bypasses annoying social rules.
 
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