The Trinity

I've already proven Jesus could not be the God. - Part 1

• God is immortal - Jesus died.
• God is not appointed heir of anything – Jesus was appointed heir of all things.

We become immortal in the resurrection, when we receive our new bodies, therefore immortality is tied to us receiving our new bodies that can't die.


Therefore, just as God raised Jesus from the dead, and gave life to his mortal body, He will also raise and gave life to our mortal bodies. It says, “if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus.” Well, who raised Jesus? This same Spirit was also in Jesus, and the same Spirit that was in Jesus, needs to be in us, for there is only one Spirit, which is the Father. There is only one Person that raised Jesus from the dead, by His own inherent power, and that is the Father.


Having a body that dies, makes one mortal. Jesus died just as a man dies, and was raised from the dead, and can die no more, now being immortal. So, if man is mortal, because his body can die, then Jesus was also mortal, because his body died. On the other hand if you claim Jesus is God and immortal, even though his body died, then man is also immortal, even though his body dies, which as you know, does not agree with scripture. And if you say man's soul cannot die, then for sure it cannot be said, man is mortal, because this is the same reason you say, God is immortal, even though His body died, Jesus soul did not die. So, what's the difference? Under the Bibles definition of mortal, Jesus the God became mortal, and died, which is not possible.



Jesus became immortal, when he was raised from the dead. You would have to erase all this, that is spoken of Jesus, which you can't, because it is written. And what is written, is Jesus body died, which is mortal. There is absolutely no difference in the death of a man, and Jesus, and Jesus was made a man. He had to be made just as a man, to pay for the sins of man.

This is not speaking of spiritual death, for we will become immortal as the angels, for all angels were created immortal, and do not marry, nor die, which is speaking of the physical resurrection.

I've already proven Jesus could not be the God. - Part 2

If Lord means God, then God raised God from the dead.


How could anyone give anything to God, when it was God who gave life to all?

Jesus was appointed heir of all things, who also received life from the Father.



Jesus said, he did not send himself, he said, God sent him. Think about this one, God sent him, he did not send himself. If Jesus is God, the only true God, the Father of creation (as many like to play with that title, saying Jesus is our Father of creation, but on the other hand, the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father, then in this context “if God were your Father,” it would have to refer to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, if you believe in a trinity), then he must have sent himself, yet he says he did not. How can anyone send God? If Jesus is God, he could not be the most high God, if someone else sent him, for Jesus would be appointed, and obeying someone higher then himself. If Jesus was God, he would be doing the sending, or at the very least, sending himself.

The Word that was with the Father and was the Father, is the Word of Life, that is also spoken of in 1 John 1. It's the Father's Word, it's the Father, His Life. And that Word became a man, but with Adam, God took some dirt, and made a man. Jesus is the Word of Life that came down, and became a spiritual man, with the Law written in his heart. Jesus was made like us in every way, but had the Word of Life dwelling in him, which revealed the Father.

If God made him both Lord and Christ, if God made him Christ, then He made him Lord, or God as some would have it, that is, if Lord means God.

7xlightray said:

I've already proven Jesus could not be the God. - Part 1

• God is immortal - Jesus died.
• God is not appointed heir of anything – Jesus was appointed heir of all things.

We become immortal in the resurrection, when we receive our new bodies, therefore immortality is tied to us receiving our new bodies that can't die.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.​

Therefore, just as God raised Jesus from the dead, and gave life to his mortal body, He will also raise and gave life to our mortal bodies. It says, “if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus.” Well, who raised Jesus? This same Spirit was also in Jesus, and the same Spirit that was in Jesus, needs to be in us, for there is only one Spirit, which is the Father. There is only one Person that raised Jesus from the dead, by His own inherent power, and that is the Father.

2 Corinthians 5:4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.​

Having a body that dies, makes one mortal. Jesus died just as a man dies, and was raised from the dead, and can die no more, now being immortal. So, if man is mortal, because his body can die, then Jesus was also mortal, because his body died. On the other hand if you claim Jesus is God and immortal, even though his body died, then man is also immortal, even though his body dies, which as you know, does not agree with scripture. And if you say man's soul cannot die, then for sure it cannot be said, man is mortal, because this is the same reason you say, God is immortal, even though His body died, Jesus soul did not die. So, what's the difference? Under the Bibles definition of mortal, Jesus the God became mortal, and died, which is not possible.

Acts 13:34 And that He raised Him [Jesus] from the dead, no more to return to corruption​

Romans 1:23 changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man​

Jesus became immortal, when he was raised from the dead. You would have to erase all this, that is spoken of Jesus, which you can't, because it is written. And what is written, is Jesus body died, which is mortal. There is absolutely no difference in the death of a man, and Jesus, and Jesus was made a man. He had to be made just as a man, to pay for the sins of man.

This is not speaking of spiritual death, for we will become immortal as the angels, for all angels were created immortal, and do not marry, nor die, which is speaking of the physical resurrection.

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claiming to have done something and doing it are not the same thing. In fact, every point you presented was countered and countered with scripture and you offered no rebuttal that would be convincing. So, we can start again if you want, point by point so as not to miss anything....let's start with Jesus immortality. As God in the flesh, He was able to die as we die, that is in the flesh, however, like us, He did not, nor could He die in the spirit. IOW's being fully man means that He was able to die just like we can, and being fully flesh He would have been able to die spiritual. However, being fully God, He knew how to live without sin and did so, thus like all believers, not dying. Matthew 3:16; Matthew 4:1; Luke 2:27; Luke 4:1; Luke 23:46; Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were under the tyranny of the Devil, because God was with Him.; Romans 8:11; Titus 3:6; I John 4:2...IOW's Jesus was empowered by the HS thus unable to die, just like us, because He was both fully man and fully God....in fact, look at this passage...II Cor. 13:4 For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him in our dealing with you.

IOW's all we can show by talking about God not being able to die is that Jesus was fully man and fully God....no big deal for either side of the issue....remember, you are trying to show that Jesus can't be God not that He can be fully man and fully God.

Like I said, address this with something more than "cause I say so" and we can move to the next point you have been trying to make.

So, now Jesus is the Spirit? There is no end to the twist and turn of this trinity doctrine. Jesus could not have been the Spirit, for the Son is not the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Son. And when the Spirit is remove from the body it returns to God, and Jesus said don't touch me I have not ascended, but that he is now going to ascend to your God, and his God John 20:17.

Having a body and dying is mortal, no mater who is wearing the coat. As you say man does not die ether, because as you say, their soul continues to live, after their body dies. If man dies bodily he is mortal, that is the Bibles definition, and if I accept Jesus as my savor, I am spirituality alive, even though I die bodily. And seeing as Jesus body died, that is mortal, because the Bible say if you die bodily, you are mortal ...but you don't like that.

What you are doing is coming across two dead birds on the street, and saying about the first one, “oh, I guess that one was mortal,” then coming upon the second, saying, “oh, I guess that one was immortal.” You are trying to mix two different doctrines, and a few other things, to slid through. Both bodies are dead, ...mortal! You are trying to have it both ways. Was it Jesus body, or was it someone else's?

7xlightray said:

So, now Jesus is the Spirit?

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actually, I was pointing out that He was powered by the Spirit, just like we are suppose to be....but then again, you are trying to prove something that doesn't affect trinity belief anyway, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

There is no end to the twist and turn of this trinity doctrine. Jesus could not have been the Spirit, for the Son is not the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Son. And when the Spirit is remove from the body it returns to God, and Jesus said don't touch me I have not ascended, but that he is now going to ascend to your God, and his God John 20:17.

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talk about twisting things, geesh....first let's talk about spirit. There are two spirits talked about in scripture that apply to our discussion right now. 1. is found in Gen. when it talks about life. God breathed into man life. the 2. is the indwelling HS. This HS is the part/manifestation/person of God that makes His home within every true believer, gives us power over sin and death, teaches us all things, etc. etc. etc. In the current discussion, we know that Jesus had the first "spirit" that of life, as in God breathed into Him the spirit of life, iow's His flesh had life in it. We also know from the passages I provided and some others as well, that Jesus had the 2 "spirit" as well, that of the HS. It was the HS within that allowed Jesus to be without sin, thus our example of how we are to live our lives totally yielded to God. But, the question becomes as per our discussion, how was Jesus able to yield so much of Himself to God that He could fulfil the law? The answer is that He is God therefore knows intimately what we have to learn when we come to Christ.

Having a body and dying is mortal, no mater who is wearing the coat. As you say man does not die ether, because as you say, their soul continues to live, after their body dies. If man dies bodily he is mortal, that is the Bibles definition, and if I accept Jesus as my savor, I am spirituality alive, even though I die bodily. And seeing as Jesus body died, that is mortal, because the Bible say if you die bodily, you are mortal ...but you don't like that.

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and yet, the grave could not hold Him, nor His body....iow's the flesh died but didn't stay dead because as you said, God cannot die. You see, Jesus didn't stay dead, He rose from the grave, which is in and of itself a testimony to the truth of Jesus deity, but I digress, one point at a time. Jesus flesh died, then was raised, why? Because death couldn't hold Him, why not? Because He was God in the flesh.

What you are doing is coming across two dead birds on the street, and saying about the first one, “oh, I guess that one was mortal,” then coming upon the second, saying, “oh, I guess that one was immortal.” You are trying to mix two different doctrines, and a few other things, to slid through. Both bodies are dead, ...mortal! You are trying to have it both ways. Was it Jesus body, or was it someone else's?

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Your missing the fact that Jesus raised from the dead...that fact changes everything you are trying to claim right off the bat and we haven't even begun yet to explore your claims for anything deeper.

razzelflabben said:

so you refuse to answer the question and instead insist on removing good study technique to assert your position, sorry not good enough...it grieves me that we couldn't have a great discussion but ignoring good study technique and refusing to answer questions, simply isn't enough to prove your case.

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Actually analyzing the passage in question is the key to understanding the passage. Simple analysis will conclude there's only one God being identified.....God the Father.

justlookinla said:

Actually analyzing the passage in question is the key to understanding the passage. Simple analysis will conclude there's only one God being identified.....God the Father.

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as I have repeatedly shown you, doing an analysis of the passage tells us that Jesus is God, but at the moment, I am willing to even play with your interpretation, which is why I keep asking you the same question and you keep refusing to even try to give an answer.
So, playing with your interpretation, why would God tell us not to put any other gods before Him then lift a non god into the same position as Himself? Please, after this long of me asking and you refusing, provide a scripture to back up your answer from the totality of scripture available as to why this apparent contradiction would take place and how we are to worship only one God when according to your interpretation two are now in place for us to worship.

razzelflabben said:

as I have repeatedly shown you, doing an analysis of the passage tells us that Jesus is God, but at the moment, I am willing to even play with your interpretation, which is why I keep asking you the same question and you keep refusing to even try to give an answer.

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A simple analysis of the passage shows that there's only one God in the passage...God the Father. If you wish to rewrite it and make Jesus a God, by all means do whatever you must in order to have the passage agree with your doctrine, but the fact remains that God is the Father in the verse.

So, playing with your interpretation, why would God tell us not to put any other gods before Him then lift a non god into the same position as Himself? Please, after this long of me asking and you refusing, provide a scripture to back up your answer from the totality of scripture available as to why this apparent contradiction would take place and how we are to worship only one God when according to your interpretation two are now in place for us to worship.

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There's not two for us to worship, there's one.....God the Father, who anointed Jesus. God the Father did not anoint another God, did not anoint Himself, not God anointing God, but God anointed Jesus, the Christ, the Lord, the Son.

I guess I will try my best to muddy the water. But a great topic thus far.

Here is what I recently came to understand about the Trinity/Triune nature of God.

First, I've long believed that preaching about God in a Triune nature is confusing, illogical, and contradictory when it concerns evangelism. Therefore always preach Christ as God, and that alone, is enough. Once you go into the Law of Moses, and the personal identity of God, then it gets murky.

I now regard the issue as one of dimensions, not persons. I was in debate on this issue and I asserted that God is a single being. The other person argued: "everyone knows a person is a being, so God is three beings.... No, his "triune" nature is still ONE single being, yet the understanding many people have of three persons is that this requires three different beings to relate and converse with one another. (Evident by people asking about seeing BOTH the Father, and the Son, when they go to heaven, for instance).

God is a single being - I found out that my denomination's statement of faith asserts this, it is an established Trinitarian denomination. God operates in our reality as three persons for what I believe is - one reason. He operates in a multi dimensional way.

1) God operates in heavenly realms, completely outside our perception. We can only be told information about it. There are some notable exceptions, which include the "angel of the Lord" and the appearance of God at Sinai to Moses. (note though, that God spoke to Moses, as a Christ-type, and Moses spoke to Israel)
2) God operates spiritually in our souls by quickening our spirit, giving us dreams, and by prompting our hearts. This I believe to be a way in which we perceive and experience God through energy. The spirit is empowerment. This spirit is God's all present spirit which reaches through the dimension of heaven, and touches our dimension, without being visible. This personal attribute of God expresses to us entirely different things than what we consider "information" about heaven we've been told or taught.
3) God operates - since the incarnation - as a man in the flesh. The man, Christ, operates in one place, at one time, but is connected to the spirit (his own spirit) in a way that gives him all knowledge. The person of Christ in his prophetic ministry was expressed to us in a limited way, devoid of his heavenly glory, and with only the token power of his miracles.

These 3 personalities are expressed each uniquely, and "personally" to convey to us separately, the complete personality of himself, as he interacts with humanity at three different levels (or at two levels).

I can confirm to you, scripturally, that all the attributes of God are focused on Jesus Christ, including the PERSONAL IDENTITY of the father.

Yes, Jesus Christ assumes the personal identity of his "own" Father. >>>>> John 14:8-10

.........Just ask yourself how many relationships you have to the ONE God? One? or Three?

justlookinla said:

A simple analysis of the passage shows that there's only one God in the passage...God the Father. If you wish to rewrite it and make Jesus a God, by all means do whatever you must in order to have the passage agree with your doctrine, but the fact remains that God is the Father in the verse.

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wow, how can you not read what I wrote? Like I said repeatedly now, at this point in our discussion, I am asking you to explain your pov so that I can consider it for truth or not truth....No rewriting, no, arguing, no making anything fit any doctrine...you made a claim as to the intent of the passage, I am at this point in the conversation asking you to explain an apparent contradiction between what God tells us in His word and what your interpretation says, now, what I need you to do to take you seriously is to have you show how to reconcile this apparent contradiction.

There's not two for us to worship, there's one.....God the Father, who anointed Jesus. God the Father did not anoint another God, did not anoint Himself, not God anointing God, but God anointed Jesus, the Christ, the Lord, the Son.

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But, He anointed Jesus to the position of absolute authority, that is to say, the authority that belongs only to God...thus, according to you, God anointed Jesus, a non God to the position of God. That would mean there are two Gods for us to worship when we are commanded to worship only one God. If your pov is to be taken seriously, you need to show how we can reconcile this discrepancy. So yet again, I ask, when scripture is clear that we are NOT to worship other God's why would God anoint an non God Jesus to the position of deity?

razzelflabben said:

wow, how can you not read what I wrote? Like I said repeatedly now, at this point in our discussion, I am asking you to explain your pov so that I can consider it for truth or not truth....No rewriting, no, arguing, no making anything fit any doctrine...you made a claim as to the intent of the passage, I am at this point in the conversation asking you to explain an apparent contradiction between what God tells us in His word and what your interpretation says, now, what I need you to do to take you seriously is to have you show how to reconcile this apparent contradiction.

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There is no contradiction. There is no issue. The simple fact is, only one God is identified in the passage, God the Father. Jesus isn't identified using the same identifier (God) as the Father for to do so would be presenting two Gods.....God the Father and Jesus God. The explanation is simple.

But, He anointed Jesus

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Who anointed Jesus? God? When God anointed Jesus, was God anointing God?

to the position of absolute authority, that is to say, the authority that belongs only to God...thus, according to you, God anointed Jesus, a non God to the position of God.

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No, not to position of God, there's only one God in the position of God, God the Father. God wasn't making Jesus God, He was giving Jesus an anointing that He (Jesus) did not have before His God and Father anointed Him. God was not anointing God.

That would mean there are two Gods for us to worship when we are commanded to worship only one God. If your pov is to be taken seriously, you need to show how we can reconcile this discrepancy. So yet again, I ask, when scripture is clear that we are NOT to worship other God's why would God anoint an non God Jesus to the position of deity?

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Anointing doesn't make one a God.....and it didn't make Jesus God.

justlookinla said:

There is no contradiction. There is no issue. The simple fact is, only one God is identified in the passage, God the Father. Jesus isn't identified using the same identifier (God) as the Father for to do so would be presenting two Gods.....God the Father and Jesus God. The explanation is simple.



Who anointed Jesus? God? When God anointed Jesus, was God anointing God?



No, not to position of God, there's only one God in the position of God, God the Father. God wasn't making Jesus God, He was giving Jesus an anointing that He (Jesus) did not have before His God and Father anointed Him. God was not anointing God.



Anointing doesn't make one a God.....and it didn't make Jesus God.

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By dodging the apparent contradiction razz pointed out, you ultimately (logically) assert that Jesus Christ does not have all authority and power in the universe.

Jesus did say he is "I AM". He is the identity of God. He is GOD-MANIFEST (Emmanuel).

In him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, bodily.

Should I continue?

Aijalon said:

I guess I will try my best to muddy the water. But a great topic thus far.

Here is what I recently came to understand about the Trinity/Triune nature of God.

First, I've long believed that preaching about God in a Triune nature is confusing, illogical, and contradictory when it concerns evangelism. Therefore always preach Christ as God, and that alone, is enough. Once you go into the Law of Moses, and the personal identity of God, then it gets murky.

Click to expand...

So, you think that we need to change the gospel because some people may not understand it? I'm sorry but that just simply doesn't fly with me. I'm not sure that is what you mean but the end result is the same. I am not advocating that we need to teach trinity every time we speak about God or Jesus or the HS, but somewhere in the discipling process, we need to speak the truth of who God is and how He manifests Himself to us through both Jesus and the HS. The thought that we should change the teaching of Scripture because we find it uncomfortable is appalling to me and in fact, I just read an article about how harmful the "comfortable" christians are to the church.

I now regard the issue as one of dimensions, not persons. I was in debate on this issue and I asserted that God is a single being. The other person argued: "everyone knows a person is a being, so God is three beings.... No, his "triune" nature is still ONE single being, yet the understanding many people have of three persons is that this requires three different beings to relate and converse with one another. (Evident by people asking about seeing BOTH the Father, and the Son, when they go to heaven, for instance).

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now, we already talked about semantics and even the few people you have run into who have poor understanding. They can no more set our doctrine than random ideas thrown at us by the world can set our doctrine. Our doctrine can only come from scripture and a correct interpretation of that scripture as testified to us by careful study. So, again, I am horrified by the outcome of your words here. I am sure you don't mean the outcome that it testifies to, but semantics does not change the deity of Christ, nor does running into a person or couple of people who don't understand trinity correctly. To allow semantics or poor teaching to define our doctrine is as harmful or more so than the original mistaken doctrine that drove us down that road.

God is a single being - I found out that my denomination's statement of faith asserts this, it is an established Trinitarian denomination. God operates in our reality as three persons for what I believe is - one reason. He operates in a multi dimensional way.

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Trinity doctrine at it's very heart teaches only ONE God, as in a single being that manifests Himself to us in the form/person/whatever semantic word you want to use as Jesus and as the HS. IOW's God alone is to big for us to take Him all in, and so we have smaller bits of information to try to grasp some of the basic concepts of God, these smaller, easier to handle bits of information come to us in the form of Jesus, the HS, and the Father, distinctly different and yet only ONE God, one being. That is trinity doctrine in a nut shell.

1) God operates in heavenly realms, completely outside our perception. We can only be told information about it. There are some notable exceptions, which include the "angel of the Lord" and the appearance of God at Sinai to Moses. (note though, that God spoke to Moses, as a Christ-type, and Moses spoke to Israel)
2) God operates spiritually in our souls by quickening our spirit, giving us dreams, and by prompting our hearts. This I believe to be a way in which we perceive and experience God through energy. The spirit is empowerment. This spirit is God's all present spirit which reaches through the dimension of heaven, and touches our dimension, without being visible. This personal attribute of God expresses to us entirely different things than what we consider "information" about heaven we've been told or taught.
3) God operates - since the incarnation - as a man in the flesh. The man, Christ, operates in one place, at one time, but is connected to the spirit (his own spirit) in a way that gives him all knowledge. The person of Christ in his prophetic ministry was expressed to us in a limited way, devoid of his heavenly glory, and with only the token power of his miracles.

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you just explained trinity....as I said, allowing one persons poor teaching to change your doctrine is terrifying to say the least.

These 3 personalities are expressed each uniquely, and "personally" to convey to us separately, the complete personality of himself, as he interacts with humanity at three different levels (or at two levels).

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so, if you believe in trinity, why do you complain and try to argue against it? I have asked you this question before and all you do is continue to argue against trinity but when pressed, as you do here, to describe it, this makes no sense.

I can confirm to you, scripturally, that all the attributes of God are focused on Jesus Christ, including the PERSONAL IDENTITY of the father.

Yes, Jesus Christ assumes the personal identity of his "own" Father. >>>>> John 14:8-10

.........Just ask yourself how many relationships you have to the ONE God? One? or Three?

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see above....three persons/manifestations/revelations, whatever semantic you want to place on it, but only ONE GOD...that is trinity

Aijalon said:

By dodging the apparent contradiction razz pointed out, you ultimately (logically) assert that Jesus Christ does not have all authority and power in the universe.

Jesus did say he is "I AM". He is the identity of God. He is GOD-MANIFEST (Emmanuel).

In him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, bodily.

Should I continue?

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Simply point out the contradiction in my position, using the passage in question.

justlookinla said:

Simply point out the contradiction in my position, using the passage in question.

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razz raised it quite well, and you would not give him a level response, so why should I try? Does the fullness of the Godhead dwell bodily in Jesus Christ, or not? It's a yes or no question.

Aijalon said:

razz raised it quite well, and you would not give him a level response, so why should I try? Does the fullness of the Godhead dwell bodily in Jesus Christ, or not? It's a yes or no question.

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You claimed the contradiction. Either show it or move on.

razzelflabben said:

So, you think that we need to change the gospel because some people may not understand it? I'm sorry but that just simply doesn't fly with me. I'm not sure that is what you mean but the end result is the same. I am not advocating that we need to teach trinity every time we speak about God or Jesus or the HS, but somewhere in the discipling process, we need to speak the truth of who God is and how He manifests Himself to us through both Jesus and the HS. The thought that we should change the teaching of Scripture because we find it uncomfortable is appalling to me and in fact, I just read an article about how harmful the "comfortable" christians are to the church. now, we already talked about semantics and even the few people you have run into who have poor understanding. They can no more set our doctrine than random ideas thrown at us by the world can set our doctrine. Our doctrine can only come from scripture and a correct interpretation of that scripture as testified to us by careful study. So, again, I am horrified by the outcome of your words here. I am sure you don't mean the outcome that it testifies to, but semantics does not change the deity of Christ, nor does running into a person or couple of people who don't understand trinity correctly. To allow semantics or poor teaching to define our doctrine is as harmful or more so than the original mistaken doctrine that drove us down that road. Trinity doctrine at it's very heart teaches only ONE God, as in a single being that manifests Himself to us in the form/person/whatever semantic word you want to use as Jesus and as the HS. IOW's God alone is to big for us to take Him all in, and so we have smaller bits of information to try to grasp some of the basic concepts of God, these smaller, easier to handle bits of information come to us in the form of Jesus, the HS, and the Father, distinctly different and yet only ONE God, one being. That is trinity doctrine in a nut shell. you just explained trinity....as I said, allowing one persons poor teaching to change your doctrine is terrifying to say the least. so, if you believe in trinity, why do you complain and try to argue against it? I have asked you this question before and all you do is continue to argue against trinity but when pressed, as you do here, to describe it, this makes no sense. see above....three persons/manifestations/revelations, whatever semantic you want to place on it, but only ONE GOD...that is trinity

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I realize that I razzed your feathers there with my response, but I assure you, I have struggled with the questions and logic of what you two are going at here long before that conversation I had, but I wrestled with it before that and I came out on the other side with a solution. All I'm saying on the evangelism issue is that on it's face - there is certainly a logical contradiction, as you well pointed out! It is best to conceal this at first, so as not to hinder the gospel in a world full of overly logical people.

People have a tendency to view God as three beings and they related to God as a three-being person. I can attest that I was raised by people who think this way, and think it appropriate to pray to the Holy Spirit as a different entity than God the Father and Jesus. They have MULTIPLE relationships in prayer with three different "people". (actually much of these kinds of prayers are inward prayers to the ego of one's own person much of the time... but I digress)

Some have a peaceful solution to the paradox worked out, I never did have it. The solution is ONE RELATIONSHIP with God, not three.

Peace.

oh, and it doesn't change the Gospel, which is no more than the Good news of Jesus' payment for our sin. It's all about Jesus, and my God is Jesus. That's where I start, the simple Gospel. It dun need ta be complicated.

justlookinla said:

You claimed the contradiction. Either show it or move on.

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answer the yes/no question, and I will explore the contradiction with you.

Aijalon said:

answer the yes/no question, and I will explore the contradiction with you.

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Nope. The alleged contradiction was before your question.

Jesus isn't identified using the same identifier (God) as the Father for to do so would be presenting two Gods.....God the Father and Jesus God.

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You appeared to be saying that Jesus Christ is never identified as God, and does not share the Father's identity.

I already proved otherwise by John 14, Jesus does share God's identity. You lose.